Tricky-Ha Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 In a blog post regarding the ending story of Mass Effect 3, Bioware co-founder Ray Muzyka described the feedback as "incredibly painful". "Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics - but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility," he said. I read this recently & I wondered about the massive number of complaints that SWTOR has suffered & then I tried to compare those numbers of complaints to the miniscule number of complaints Mass Effect 3 has had in comparison & i wondered why Ray would jump to defend Mass Effect 3 so quickly yet remain quiet on SWTOR. I mean really, weren't we complaining loudly enough about the quality of the endings of the 8, 8, 8 class stories here in SWTOR too? Do you all think that an apology is entirely unnecessary or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I saw the recent Guild Summit. I know some Devs had admitted some mistakes were made, but man is it hard to get them to admit to specifically what those mistakes were. Armor design? Class balance? Server balance? etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhumbug Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 no, an apology is not needed just quit the dismissive attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberate Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Personally I am tired of their "we know better attitude". This is your first AAA mmo, it will be your last if you don't listen to your fans. I am trying to like the game, even force myself to play, but with the incoming patch why bother? Edited March 22, 2012 by Liberate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymaniac Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What exactly do they need to apologize for? I've only finished the consular storyline and don't see any reason for that. Of course, I am annoyed that they are giving in to the QQ and changing ME3 now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 no, an apology is not needed just quit the dismissive attitude /signed. Better yet, go make your own MMO and show us how uber you are there OP at perfect flawless MMO design. ...... yeah... thought so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursacrifice Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The MMO genre is pretty much the only genre of gaming that 100% requires that you listen to all community feedback, and not have a "this is our game we know better than you" attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btsager Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The game is doing fine there are no major issues that would require any kind of apologies from the dev's. The only complaining I have seen is on the general forums here. The class forums is all good constructive discussions. And seeing as the forums only represent about 5% of the player base, and the ones complaining are only about 1% of that, You can see my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 The game is doing fine there are no major issues that would require any kind of apologies from the dev's. The only complaining I have seen is on the general forums here. The class forums is all good constructive discussions. And seeing as the forums only represent about 5% of the player base, and the ones complaining are only about 1% of that, You can see my point. SWTOR's online community is bigger than just these forum's, y'know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notebene Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Entirely unnecessary. I don't know what it is with gamers. We are an entitled bunch, hunh? Much of the games we play these days cross over into 'art'. As such, whoever is telling us the story is an artist, a writer. It's their game, their story, their baby. If you buy a book and don't like it after 20 pages, I 'really' hope you stop reading it, especially if you are fully aware that the topic, style, story, whatever of the book isn't going to change before the end. And as far as Mass Effect 3, I don't know the ending, I'm still playing ME2, so I don't want to read any spoilers. I was 'hoping' to wait a year to buy ME3 so I could get it for like 20 bucks from Steam and play it then, but now I'm fearful that I'll have to buy it now just to get a copy of it with the originally intended artists' ending, before they caved to all the most amazing bunch of whiners ever. I'd like to see some demographics, is it gamers, or is it mostly American gamers? I gotta be honest, I bet it's the latter. Just my gut. We're spoiled, we don't do anything anymore, we're entitled...ugh. Asteroid...please come now...let the bees have a stab at it. We failed heinously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakkology Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I'll try not to give any spoilers. Mass Effect 3 ending is pretty much the same with colours changing, no matter what choices you make in game. For once, i have to agree with the fans and such an ending is a blasphemy for all the hours we've spent on previous mass effect games. SWTOR however have created 8 different stories for 8 different classes. Ending doesn't give you major changes with your choices and its linear but 8 different stories. SWTOR is good enough story wise. Of course class stories vary, i personally hate the jedi knight story but love the jedi consular story. Its the MMO part thats annoying and even that magnificent story aspect of the game can't hide all the grinding. That's an entirely different problem and there is no need to apoligize for that. Of course i expect an apology for giving us an entirely different game from what they've shown before the game is released but that is personal. I just hate the fact that my favorite game is very familiar to a well known formula that exists within the genre. Edited March 22, 2012 by Hakkology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkopczak Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I mean really, weren't we complaining loudly enough about the quality of the endings of the 8, 8, 8 class stories here in SWTOR too? Do you all think that an apology is entirely unnecessary or not? you know that story isn't finished and will be continued in next patches, expansions, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptured Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I am surprised they are giving into this. ME3 ending was fantastic. It was one of the best games I have played in a long time. In fact after I played ME3 I am having trouble logging to SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btsager Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) SWTOR's online community is bigger than just these forum's, y'know... My point is that 95% of the player base does not Regularly go online and post on various message boards and fan sites. They just play and enjoy the game. Edited March 22, 2012 by btsager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_Rho Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Yes I think Ray should apologise, and not just for the chronically bad stories... pretty much everything this game represents as a Star Wars game and as an MMO and then for all the bugs and issues they've handed out consistently for months.. edit: there are other apologies I'd like also, I can't mention those seeing as freespeech is limited to praise of BW.... Edited March 22, 2012 by Caspian_Rho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirsri Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Mass effect warrants an apology (or a coy answer if it was intentionally leading to something) because that's the end of that particular experience, and it's bizarre. If not an apology than an explanation at least. SWTOR doesn't really warrant an 'apology' for anything so grandiose, the nature of the MMO business is that you are constantly iterating on the product, and the experience of someone playing TOR today for the first time is going to be very different than that of someone playing for the first time on Dec 13 (whereas with Mass effect, baring major patches the experience should be more or less the same). There are things they've done wrong, badly etc. in TOR but there's nothing that you can look at as though it completely wrecks the experience and cannot be fixed, shy of bugs that delete characters, but bugs aren't intentional designs that are just bad. There are small things that are really deliberately intentionally designed badly in TOR, but they don't really wreck the climax of the experience, and anything that does negatively impact it can be removed, that's part of the dialogue with the player community (orbital stations anyone?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btsager Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) According to those in the know,(the game dev's and PR types) the population has actually been growing. I think many people still base population on the server status's of light-heavy but don't realize that those levels have changed since launch because they limited how many people it took for a server to show as Heavy in the beginning in an effort to get people to spread out more and join the newer servers as they opened them. Then as things evened out they raised that limit. SO a server that was showing as Heavy/Full two weeks after launch and is now showing as standard during peak hours could very well still have the same actual population or even higher. Edited March 22, 2012 by Trineda removed quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'll try not to give any spoilers. Mass Effect 3 ending is pretty much the same with colours changing, no matter what choices you make in game. For once, i have to agree with the fans and such an ending is a blasphemy for all the hours we've spent on previous mass effect games. SWTOR however have created 8 different stories for 8 different classes. Ending doesn't give you major changes with your choices and its linear but 8 different stories. SWTOR is good enough story wise. Of course class stories vary, i personally hate the jedi knight story but love the jedi consular story. Its the MMO part thats annoying and even that magnificent story aspect of the game can't hide all the grinding. That's an entirely different problem and there is no need to apoligize for that. Of course i expect an apology for giving us an entirely different game from what they've shown before the game is released but that is personal. I just hate the fact that my favorite game is very familiar to a well known formula that exists within the genre. You've got a good point there. I have very little to complain about with the actual story in TOR, there I'm quite satisfied. It's the MMORPG that's let me down. I don't think an apology was necessary, but I would've appreciated one just the same. BioWare had a hard time making their 1st MMO, they suffered alot of newbie mistakes & they acted like they were Kings of the MMO genre for a while when it's obvious that they're not quite there yet. They needed to be alot more humble, in my completely humble opinion. Y'know, like Ray said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otterscrubber Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Where, exactly, can I go to get an accurate statistical history of this population drop? I was not aware this information was available? I see folks mention it fairly often and would love to see this data? Edited March 22, 2012 by Trineda removed quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsoar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I read this recently & I wondered about the massive number of complaints that SWTOR has suffered & then I tried to compare those numbers of complaints to the miniscule number of complaints Mass Effect 3 has had in comparison & i wondered why Ray would jump to defend Mass Effect 3 so quickly yet remain quiet on SWTOR. I mean really, weren't we complaining loudly enough about the quality of the endings of the 8, 8, 8 class stories here in SWTOR too? Do you all think that an apology is entirely unnecessary or not? It is needed. ME3 also shipped 3.5million copies in less than a week. Plus having three different endings but the same outcome in all of them doesn't bode well for any game. They NEED to re-think that, and I am glad they're going to add to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanCogswell Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Make you game and stand behind it. Dont listen to all the cry babies and every Tom, Dick , and Harry. Its ok to ask what they want to see. I want levels past 50 and some better multi player space combat. I am a player for Star Wars for life if you just make YOUR game. Screw the community they will lead you astray then unsub. Stay your course let the chips fall where they may. I am paying for YOUR MMO not the communities mmo. Edited March 22, 2012 by JonathanCogswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 It is needed. ME3 also shipped 3.5million copies in less than a week. Plus having three different endings but the same outcome in all of them doesn't bode well for any game. They NEED to re-think that, and I am glad they're going to add to it. Crap! I'm sorry that I didn't know that. 3.5mil?!!! Jeez, ME3 so, so , so outclassed TOR. Well that answers why Ray jumped to ME3 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessOne Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I don't usually chime in on threads such as these, because they usually exist to encourage churn in the few folks in the community that are active on the forums - most folks, such as myself, are busily playing the game. But, for what it's worth, here's my two credits. No. No, an apology is not needed. What's needed is action, where appropriate, to support and advance the game. The product team appears to be doing just that. So, I'm content playing the game, and I look forward to what's coming next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarikLaw Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Um, what exactly should they be apologizing for? Having the best MMO launch in history? Having the least problems at launch in MMO history? Releasing more content in their first four months than most MMO's release in a six-to-twelve month period? Actually listening to their player-base unlike certain other MMO companies? Oh yeah, totally things that need to be apologized for. Seriously people, give SWTOR a break and stop comparing it to the plethora of features WoW has. WoW has been around for the better part of a decade, it's had time to evolve and include many new features in that time frame. SWTOR has been out only for about four months now and you're whining because it doesn't have 8 years worth of extra development and production time? Seriously, do us all a favour, cancel your subscription, and go back to playing WoW because by the sounds of it you're not going to be happy with anything Bioware does unless they become carbon-copies of WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Bioware just copied much of World of Warcraft in the hopes of taking a cut of their pie. Things all good MMOs never had complaints about: -Appearance Tab -Fishing (non combat based time sink) -Cooking (non combat based time sink) -The ability to make fun of it's self (fish weapons, odd clothing, lots of easter eggs, useless but funny trinkets). TOR is like a teenager copying the cool kid in highschool without really understanding why the cool kid is popular to begin with. Edited March 22, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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