Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Urkanan]

I can answer this.

 

a- Class boss fights (story) frequently go past 1 minute 30 second.

b- Class quest often have elements where an area fight lasts longer than than 1.5 minutes.

c- Class quests have buggy mobs like any other quest series.

 

 

2- World Story Arc encounters, if done at level range, consistently take longer than one medpach.

 

2- Choke point areas on Hammer Station, Athiss, MR et all have battles that will last past the cool down of the medpacks.

 

6- Mob Respawn Dynamics - Murphy's Law on Respawns a- A mob will repawn, B- most of the time right where you are, as you are finishing a fight... d-before your col down of the medpack (etc) has cooled down.

 

You skipped 3.

 

About a, b, c, 2 and 2:

You should try to actually dps the mobs instead of talking them to death.

 

I am a lousy dps. I leveled as a bodyguard (for extra challenge) and I can asure you that if any of my story arc encounters was longer than 100-110s (you don't pop a medpack right as you pull, do you?) it was the very odd, mildly relevant fight. In essence, if you take longer to gain control of the fight than they take to kill your pet, you are doomed.

 

 

About 6

As melee, fight mobs on their spawn spot. It's not like you need to kite in this game.

As ranged, try not to set your pull zone on the spawn point of the group you just cleared.

 

I won't even bring into discussion the ludicrous amount of time between the spawn and the mobs actually "activating" and being able to target you.

 

 

Availability of medpacks is most definitely not your gameplay's most urgent issue.

 

EDIT: I also want to remind that some dev (I think GZ) stated they are looking into leaving medpacs as they are for pre-50 stuff, and limit this change to end-game.

 

I personally welcome the change, but wouldn't care if left as unlimited for leveling and story mode ops. Think that adds game accesibility for the more casual player

 

 

This is a stupid idea as everyone here stated

 

george zoeller change this back to what we the customers want, not what you think is right

 

definitely the way things should work, because you know better huh?; you = funny.

 

or was your irony wasted with me here?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Urkanan

[Moshpet]

First of all, most of these examples assume the following: that these fights are not tuned around a pretty simple equation: can you deal the enemies combined health in damage (and interrupt certain abilities, decreasing damage or preventing auto-kills) before they deal your health in damage. I've played through the game nearly three times since launch, I've used medpacs sparingly when I was not doing content balanced for a character above my level.

 

Secondly, most of these can be re-tuned if the lack of medpacs causes that many issues. I suspect that won't be necessary, however.

 

I'm glad you are talented enough to play through 3 times.

 

Personally, I've got 1 50, & 3 level 30+s on just one sever I've got a pts toon at level 30 (since just the 1.2 patch mind you,) and a few more level 15&20's scattered whilly nilly across several severs, thanks to the massive over population explosion on the first few days.

 

Need I add in the betas I attended... Nah, that's just gloating....

 

 

OK, we're both solid gamers I expect. It's also safe to say our play styles differ, I am -constantly- fighting mobs 1-3 levels higher than I am. Because I am good enough to do so. I also know that If I hit a boss where things like my interrupts down't work, I have to back off grind a few levels and then kick its arse.

 

 

Pulling this crap on PTS has affected my play style, I spend more time and credits repairing from fights I would normally win, if I my medpack was ready to use. (Not to mention having to file countless bugreports *sheesh*)

 

Since the game already has a costly repair system that takes the player base's credits, much like a school yard bully, people will find it harder to get gear and to progress. Many will say, 'screw it and play another game, some may stick it out due to love of the IP.

 

----------------

 

The current state of the game mechanics, however will penalize the player, the casual ones.

 

OF which _do_ out-number us 'hard core players' by a large margin ... So which is the group Bio-war can ill afford to anger the most?

 

(Hit it's the one with the greater number of playing subcribers.)

 

So yeah, take the bitter pill of the medpack nerf, swallow deeply and watch how fast the casual players leave.

 

Or wake up and help to prod the devs to a saner course of action.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Moshpet

[Moshpet]

You skipped 3.

 

About a, b, c, 2 and 2:

You should try to actually dps the mobs instead of talking them to death.

 

 

"You're funny, I'll kill you last...." (You can have a cookie if you remember the movie that line comes from.)

 

I'm a tank, I bash things with the funny glow bat. Most of my tree etc is tied up in defense, soaking up damage and hitting stuff. Unless I am roflstomping trash mobs on my way someplace, every fight is a brawl and can end up pulling in extra mobs. It happens.

 

Also, my class doesn't have self heal, it has procs that grant some health every time they go off, so I work my builds and gear so that those procs have a good chance to happen. The medpack is a tool that lets me survive aoe and other rude things like my companion agroing the entire map.

 

 

This isn't a l2p issue, this is the devs not giving me anything back to offset the ripping out my primary emergency heal aka, OMG hit the medpack panic button.

 

So buddy, while you may be able to pee on a plate and not splash, the rest of us are not so perfect and would like to not die all the time due to bad luck, or crappy game mechanics.

[xJACKTHERIPPERx]

bahaha checking in again, 54 pages and going strong about medpacks lol. wooowwww lol

[dvernissi]

if these stupid changes keep happening without a poll or anything more than the "brilliant idea of a new intern" it wont hold me in game for too long...

[Girltank]

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

In huttball it's unusual for me to be out of combat for 8 seconds. I pretty much have to either hide, Die, stealth or hope the enemy team just forgets about me as I try to follow the flow of combat. These conditions are rare. In Huttball it is rare to not be within shooting range of an enemy assuming you are playing the game well.

 

I'm not one of those players that just runs around and does DPS either, I play the game well usually doing very little dps and heals.

 

8 seconds is a long time to not be doing anything in pvp and even longer time for nothing to be done to you. True, I've hid to recuperate many times, multiple times in a WZ but rarely in Huttball where it's almost always better to just die.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Girltank

[TheEvilEeyore]

Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended.

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

1- There exists no mechanic to determine when a fight over and the next mob begins for your character alone. Considering that there exists a bug where you companion agros mobs on it's own now.... this becomes even more problematic.

 

2- Group mechanics currently can not differentiate if you are out of combat if your party wanders off and attacks something while you yourself are trying to catch a second wind. This is clearly demonstrated by elevators that will not let you use them if you party is in combat, loot boxes that can not be opened and the like.

 

2a- Does anyone NOT see a problem when -1- member of a Operation is -stuck- in combat mode and no one can use a med pack????

 

3-This change was not asked for by the player community.

 

this is a balance change 100%. Biochems are the only crafter type that can get 550 fp every 3 minutes for a boss fight for 15-20(cant remember which) that is MASSIVE cd.

 

most boss fights this is only usable 2x's as it is 3 in some cases where the fight lasts longer than intended. the fact of the matter is biochem is currently the only crafter class taht benefits raids in any shape. so what does this say to those of us that decided to roll something else and also decided to stay that because as per bioware "other crafting classes are going to become more relevent."

 

I am sorry but if this is the first mmo you have seen this in you have very little mmo experience. this is one of very few mmo's that ever allowed you to use pots more than once in a fight. it will force people to be smarter with their cd's instead of just mashing them every time they are up.

 

People wanted harder encounters and this is a great way of making it easier to design around. lets take the soa fight for instance. any biochem out there could pop their rakata medpac put their max hp at 22k and get an instant 5k heal. it basically completely negated that lightning ball via their crafting skills. and they can do this once every 3 minutes.

[mksaccount]

So how does the "once per battle" fit in with the Rakata medpac and tanking? Do most tanks click this at the beginning of the fight to start with the 15% health boost, or keep it for emergency use?

[TheEvilEeyore]

So how does the "once per battle" fit in with the Rakata medpac and tanking? Do most tanks click this at the beginning of the fight to start with the 15% health boost, or keep it for emergency use?

 

emergency... there is no fight that opens with a 18-20k hit.

[Blattan]

this is a balance change 100%. Biochems are the only crafter type that can get 550 fp every 3 minutes for a boss fight for 15-20(cant remember which) that is MASSIVE cd.

 

These statements are (currently) wrong.

 

We have yet to hear how the discussions about keeping pre-level 50 medpacks working as in live has turned out.

 

But right now, the change is more than just balance. It affects more than just the crew skill.

 

IF the change was only to biochem medpacks, this thread would be smaller. It would still be a contested change, but not so vehemently.

 

There are a quite a few people who are against this change because it is so wide spread.

[Moshpet]

 

I am sorry but if this is the first mmo you have seen this in you have very little mmo experience. this is one of very few mmo's that ever allowed you to use pots more than once in a fight. it will force people to be smarter with their cd's instead of just mashing them every time they are up.

 

 

You are sorely confused.

 

I've been doing mmos for ages. Mushes for longer than that, (I've even got a Mush-code printed out as a 3-ring-note-book manual yet....) I've coded on punch cards.... My first pc was a Z80 that I built (EG soldered the connections, assembled, plugged in the IC's and hooked up to the tv....) and I have played the Zork precursor on a Mainframe.... Ok, so you are more than out of line for trying to play the 'old gamer cred card' here.

 

SO no this isn't my first mmo. (And yes I am an OLD FART )

 

---------------------

 

Let me clarify :

 

This issue is not how much gamer cred you think you have or for that matter what I have:

 

 

The issue is about how this change will effect a game's community and that the game is so far from polished to consider such a change, at this time.

 

----------------

 

No, the game _is _ not_ ready_ for taking the medpack out of its current usage or cool down time frame on live.

 

a- There are classes with insignificant self heals.

b- The game mechanics are currently buggy and it is common for fights run past the 1:30 mark, and it much more common that they -will- run long.

c- It is also common to find issues where you can be stuck in combat, and not have a way to heal until you die.

 

Until all classes have a respectable self heal and the repair bill per death is not so staggering, there is no way I'd even consider giving the medpack nerf a stamp of approval.

 

Right now, Bio-ware is making a mistake as large as the NGE was to SWG. With luck they will step back from the edge of doing so.

 

But hey, what do I know? I'm just the OLD FART who has a clue.

[todorovh]

emergency... there is no fight that opens with a 18-20k hit.

 

Yes there is .. KP, 16 man, nightmare, trash mobs just before Karagga, they hit our tanks for about 18k out of their 25-26k hp. This is TRASH.

 

Then you have Foreman Crusher ( outside of frenzy ), XRR-3, Jarg and Sorno, Karagga, all fights where you can easily see your tank go to 20-30-40% ( depending on the fight ) within a 1-3 sec period. I'm not saying this is bad, all i'm saying is that these fights EXIST !

 

About medpacks .. you can only use it 3 times in a ops fight and it only heals for 4-5k, which is what a reasonable healer does on a 2sec cast. I don't see how their current usage was making such a big difference.

 

However they're making Biochem pointless by making stims less effective, who knows what else they re planing. for example I have little interest in crafting myself, our guild already has designated crafters, who get the good recipes, and having the reusable biochem stuff is the ONLY reason I leveled a crafting profession in the first place. I have NOT sold a single biochem item, since i picked up the profession and have little interest in that.

 

What I'd like to see is to have the reusable rakata stuff be as effective as the unbound stims/ medpacks/ adrenals and possibly either remove the biochem requirement or allow us to have a SECOND CRAFTING profession.

 

edit. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=swtor+singualrity+16+man&oq=swtor+singualrity+16+man&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=youtube.3...1111168l1116879l0l1117246l22l22l2l0l0l0l106l1588l18j1l19l0. link to the list of videos on youtube for confirmation on dmg

Edited March 25, 2012 by todorovh

[Agemnon]

I agree that medpac's on a 1 per fight basis is complete BS. Unlike the jug/mar , assasin and other classes that dont have a heal its not an improvement because honestly how often do u come out of combat in pvp especially like hutball where its close corners.

 

This. When leveling my scoundrel part of my strategy on harder fights was stall using CC until medpack goes off CD, use medpack again, then burst down.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Agemnon

[Darth_Victus]

I sincerely hope BioWare rethinks there stance on this. If anything lower the amount the medpack heals for. Not limit it once per fight.

 

This is one of the minor changes that started to push me away from WoW and now it is already making its way here.

[Urkanan]

I honestly wonder whether people simply do not understand the design benefits of this, or purposely ignore them and procceed to cry about the terrible offence BW is making in forcing them to think and tweak their gameplay.

 

I guess that when people "stalling cc till medpack is up" a strategy, one can see why most can't understand how allowing infinite medpacks limits the designers room to produce variety in fights WITHOUT making chugging medpacks mandatory in the end

[Masturomenos]

I dont care if you agree ith the change or dont i dont care if you agree with the nerfs or dont. What i cant imagine after seeing the logic posted by the devs as to whyt this change was made to think that they are making changes for one reason.

 

They are making a quality of life change not for players raiders, pvpers, grinders, rpers not for anything to do with our QoL. This change is so the devs QoL can be better so they can work less when designing encounters so they can have a shorter day at the office. No player of any game ever should be ok with this.

 

The people we pay are doing this to make their lifes easier? Like we have been getting gamebreaking content already? *** im suprised this is not a bigger issue.

 

When has a company been so self centered in any inustry to tell its customer we are making ur life harder so we can make ours easier?

 

People who agre or dont agree with changes in 1.2 the people designing the game are telling everyone FU. There is no basis no reason for this change or any change other then to make sure they dont have to be creative this is the opposite of what business in general is about.

 

I wouldnt show my face at a game developers confrence if anyone i worked for even said this. This is not just swtor going backwards this is has a negative impact on the whole industry. This is a defect of video gamings future. This is a travesty.

 

The statement the dev made about the change being so they have a easier day at the office should upset gamers and not only gamers but people in general. Can you imagine any business in any other industry making a statement saying we are gonna **** over our customers so we have an easier time giving them a subpar product?

 

People listen to the sttement not to whethr u think its right or wrong but to what it really says!!!! How do you think u get respect as a game developer by doing this?

 

Talk about blizz all u want or arenanet or god forbid trion atleast they have ther word and the respect from us. Bioware with that one statemet has become a joke. if i worked their i would quit my job and join any other studio bcause BW has just become the joke of the industry.

 

As a dev id strive to be better to become smarter to make content that i new and gamebreaking. This shows that we are at the peak of inovation we will ever get from bioware. 2 months in and they nerf what took 5 year to make because they outsmarted themselves with a 5k heal every 90 seconds? Or not having hat cost for kolto shell? Or sorcs being OP cause of regen? They gave up already? Bioware did the last 5 plus years of ur lives mean nothing? U went and got tatoos of the game symbol at launch to show what a good job u did? Lololol i hope u hve good tatoo removal services where you live cause i wouldnt show my tatoo or my face to anyone in th industry after that statement.

 

Rygar on nes was less busted then this game will be in 1.2.................................................

Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[dougan]

Can you imagine any business in any other industry making a statement saying we are gonna **** over our customers so we have an easier time giving them a subpar product?

 

You're delusional and/or naive if you don't think this happens in every other industry in existence on earth.

 

Whether or not the company informs its consumers about these decisions is just the option of whether or not to be truthful and open about it.

[Masturomenos]

I honestly wonder whether people simply do not understand the design benefits of this, or purposely ignore them and procceed to cry about the terrible offence BW is making in forcing them to think and tweak their gameplay.

 

I guess that when people "stalling cc till medpack is up" a strategy, one can see why most can't understand how allowing infinite medpacks limits the designers room to produce variety in fights WITHOUT making chugging medpacks mandatory in the end

 

Dude get off ur highhorse its a 4k heal every 90 seconds. Plus its not the change. Since ur so into inovation and balance u do understand the change is being made so BW can have an easier workday? They said it. This change which means every change is because they peaked their abilities. Not only did this developer steal the idea of an entire game from another persons creativity they cant even make a boss fight in the future balanced and inovative enuf to counter someone popping Medpack two times in a fight.

 

When anyone is ok with this they should stop playing games ad stop life period. No one should be ok with allowing someone to make ur life harder to make theirs easier. If this is ok now what do u think will be ok in the future. Bud it dont get beter when u see this after 2 months only worse. If im wrong then show me in biowares past where they havent ****ed up everything they have touched? Go ahead how many unhappy customers across how many games can one developer team have at once in the past or the future?

 

Seriously BW should just build a car with brakes then take one side of brakes off after u buy it cause its easier to servie a car with 3 brake rtors then it is to service one with four.

 

LOL at you BW forgt learn to play. Bioware needs to learn to develope.

[Masturomenos]

You're delusional and/or naive if you don't think this happens in every other industry in existence on earth.

 

Whether or not the company informs its consumers about these decisions is just the option of whether or not to be truthful and open about it.

 

Name one? Name one compny that takes from us and tells us that so they can have a easier time at work. Name me one company?

 

Please when has any company that has customers taken from them to make their life easier?

 

I sacrifice a chance at living to make sure th people i do i for are safe. Now u tell me what company or industry has said they are making their customers lives harder so theirs are easier?

 

Personaly id rather pay more a month to get more inginuity and ineligence and creativity then play a game for free that says they need to make their job easier.

 

All games nerf and buff thats the cycle. But you know what before they do it thy supply their players with meters that prove its necessary. They allow u to go to a ptr with ur main and test it. There have been alot of changes across alot of games that were done but they were done with proof from the players and devs. This and any change in 1.2 is to make the people u pay lives easier at work.

 

Easy is not the right way anyday, anywhere, ever. Hard work pays off. Learn to sacrifice for what u beleive in not to take away others wants so urs are more attainable.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Vinak]

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

^ Clearly doesn't play huttball. or swtor in general....

 

This is just another stupid idea among a long list of stupid ideas coming in 1.2.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Vinak

[Masturomenos]

I dont think bioware even plays this game at all. They really want u to beleive that u exit combat in a pvp match regularly? Lol. I go entire huttballs, voidstars and alderans never exiting combat unlessi die. Its another idiotic comment made by the people who know how to only make idiotic comments.

 

Yea we leave combat regularly sure thats what really happens.

 

But what do u expect if we cant copy lvl 50 toons to the PTR then who says they could themselves. Lol. Its 2012 and u still have to level ur toon to even start testing changs. God fobid your in a guild then u need to have 15 others level, then level their crafting, then gear out the toons before u can even test what they changed.

 

I bet ghostcrawler sleeps well lately. I wont even bug him about the free moose he promised me years ago after this patch goes live. I really think blizzard owns bioware and hired these devs just to make wow look better. Lolololol. Cause no way the guys at BW can be real employees of a real company. I played a game almost a decade ago that had beter development and balance then we do after bioware took 6 years nd 300 million dollars to tell us medpacks make their work harder lol. Someone must not be getting much azz at home cause they are definately trying to bang the people they work for. Lololol.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Keta]

I dont think bioware even plays this game at all. They really want u to beleive that u exit combat in a pvp match regularly? Lol. I go entire huttballs, voidstars and alderans never exiting combat unlessi die. Its another idiotic comment made by the people who know how to only make idiotic comments.

 

Yea we leave combat regularly sure thats what really happens.

 

I exited combat during a warzone once.

[DaRoamer]

Name one? Name one compny that takes from us and tells us that so they can have a easier time at work. Name me one company?

 

Please when has any company that has customers taken from them to make their life easier?

 

I sacrifice a chance at living to make sure th people i do i for are safe. Now u tell me what company or industry has said they are making their customers lives harder so theirs are easier?

 

Personaly id rather pay more a month to get more inginuity and ineligence and creativity then play a game for free that says they need to make their job easier.

 

All games nerf and buff thats the cycle. But you know what before they do it thy supply their players with meters that prove its necessary. They allow u to go to a ptr with ur main and test it. There have been alot of changes across alot of games that were done but they were done with proof from the players and devs. This and any change in 1.2 is to make the people u pay lives easier at work.

 

Easy is not the right way anyday, anywhere, ever. Hard work pays off. Learn to sacrifice for what u beleive in not to take away others wants so urs are more attainable.

 

You have a rather fatal flaw in your reasoning. You're painting it as if them having an easier time tuning an encounter somehow means they take the rest of the time off.

 

"This would have normally taken us a week, we did it in 2 days! Take the rest of the week off, see you all next Monday!"

 

If they have to spend less time tuning each encounter it means that they have MORE time to work on new content. The faster they can get content out, the BETTER for the players.

Edited March 26, 2012 by DaRoamer

[Masturomenos]

It seems that Foxcolt was right in his post which Zoller's above was responding to, the talent Surprise Comeback and [Operative Version] is the reason we cannot re-enter stealth. The ticking HOT keeps us in combat. As unlikely as it sounds, although DOT's do not refresh our combat status as Zoller said, HOT's do.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=377736 is the thread that deals with this.

 

Unless this is working as intended, which the Scoundrel community thinks unlikely due to A) The skill that is inadvertently barring stealth is itself usable from stealth and does not break stealth, and B) Zoller said DOT's do not refresh the status of combat, why does a talented HOT ability?

 

If this is an oversight and not working as intended then I'd really like Zoller to apologise to Foxcolt for dismissing his findings so readily and in the manner he did. These are not very unusual games of Huttball, nor are they very unusual games of Voidstar or Civil War. They were games every Scoundrel and Operative plays each and every time. Blocked from stealth for anywhere from 45 seconds to several minutes, depending how often they refresh their buff and if their last attacked target escapes them. It is a very real scenario.

 

Also, it wouldn't hurt Bioware employees to respond to posts like Foxcolt's with a little more understanding and a little less condescendance.

 

It takes so little time to log in on a Scoundrel to test, and could have saved Foxcolt the insult, and the Scoundrel / Operative community the past week figuring out why what was told to them as fact was again not true.

 

We cant even expect a apology. The guys making the game dont even know how the game works. If heir that stupid u cant expect them to even know when they r wrong if they did it wouldnt take half a decade and 300 million to tell us they cant balance a game around someone popping a 3k heal every couple minutes.

 

Dont expect much from these guys cause up to now they havent given us much.

 

Its 4 months into 2012 almost and were just about to get what we paid for in ecember of 2011. Patch 1.2 isnt some great idea they came up with after launch its all the stuff they couldnt put into the game when thy should have.

 

Again atleast blizzrd is honest enuff to tell us we dont get pvp in d3 until itsready. Bioware tried to act like they are doing something for us. Since bioware now thinks theyre doing us a favor we need to give back to them apparantly and since they cant design a encouner with someone using a 3k or 4k heal once or twice we now need to take that away an anything else that would make them have to do a goodjob for once. :

[Kleve]

I exited combat during a warzone once.

 

http://builder.cheezburger.com/Builder/RenderPreview/1bb2f47d-67a9-405c-914e-8017916d6b8e

Edited March 26, 2012 by Kleve