The 30% nerf to Operatives wasn't enough? Who the hell is in charge of balance?

[PostalTwinkie]

Firstly, I originally played a Juggernaut to 50, the Operative came 3rd. So this isn't coming from just an Operative point of view.

 

I don't understand the thinking behind some of the upcoming changes. Going back a month or two now Operatives were hit with a massive nerf, this massive nerf was not offset in anyway with a survivability mechanic. Yet here we are again facing another nerf to the Operative.

 

Are there really that many people at BioWare, and in the player community, that do not understand a stealth assassins role? Do they not understand the benefits of the class, as well as the drawbacks to the class? The benefit of the stealth assassin character has always been a "glass cannon", extremely high burst damage when played well. The ability to single target nuke a player and take them out of the fight. The drawback is if you get caught or interrupted before you can fully engage, you almost always die. High risk for high reward!

 

Yet here we are, once again, facing another nerf. It isn't as if we have a high absorption bubble on a short cool down, or an extremely high burst speed ability on an extremely short cool down. We have one "escape" which is on a fairly long cool down, and is interrupted by a DoT. We can also be easily detected while in stealth, the opposing player doesn't need anything special. If we approach wrong we are easily taken out of the fight by a good player.

 

The Operative doesn't need another nerf, if anything it needs some love. People just need to learn how to handle that specific role.

 

As for the change to the amount of credits gained from a WZ. Just an absolutely absurd move that is only going to further distance the PvP players from the game and push them towards other options.

[Evuke]

nerf marauders Edited March 22, 2012 by Evuke

[dschlan]

PvP dev office..the place balance goes to die.

[Coramac]

I remember when I first started PvPing and I got opened up on out of stealth by a Scoundral in Huttball. I was thinking- "Damn, I wish I had a combat log so I could see how bad I just got wrecked." Most of the time these days... it's "why is the healer DPSing me... oh, that's not a healer."

[PostalTwinkie]

I remember when I first started PvPing and I got opened up on out of stealth by a Scoundral in Huttball. I was thinking- "Damn, I wish I had a combat log so I could see how bad I just got wrecked." Most of the time these days... it's "why is the healer DPSing me... oh, that's not a healer."

 

That is the point of a stealth assassin class, single target (you) nuke (wrecking you). Had you caught him before he caught you, odds are you would have tore him up. I did this all the time as a Juggernaut and my Powertech. On the rare occasion a good Operative got to me, I got wrecked. Any other time I walked all over them.

[Ozzone]

I don't understand the thinking behind some of the upcoming changes.

 

Do you want the short version?

 

Whiners that don't know how to counter swamped the forums and operatives were outgunned and lost the nerf fight.

 

I can't even begin to count the number of lying posters that continue to claim an operative kills them in 3 secs. Of course you know that's impossible, but they keep lying anyway.

[Sir-Coffee]

The first nerf was needed.

 

The second nerf is just terrible and I'm a 50 Jugg too btw. Looking at the balancing changes to the Jugg class, operative class is just concerning. I also hear that the sorc's will be useless now.

 

I originally thought that I would stay for a while, but idk. I'll give 1.2 a shot, and I'll keep up to date with the patches... but I refuse to give my money to the people in charge of this game. I'll be canceling soon if Bioware goes through with 85% of the changes with 1.2.

[MashTactics]

Agreed. The first nerf was needed.

 

Considering that the damage nerf came BEFORE diminishing returns was added to surge, I shudder to think what kind of crits Ops/Scounds were pumping out. Probably 5-5.5k in the higher brackets.

 

This nerf is just silly, though. I play my Scoundrel, and I play him well. I only do well because I play him well, though.

 

In 1.2, I'll probably be lucky to break 300k damage, let alone shoot for 400k like I do now.

Edited March 22, 2012 by MashTactics

[BacklashEH]

I think the reasoning is that most players don't really enjoy fighting stealthers and they likely get a lot of negative feedback about them.

 

I know I find my agent to be extremely easy to play in most situations.

 

Having said all that I could care less about having to fight one, in the groups with several of them though it's about as fun as huttball.

[Ryotknife]

That is the point of a stealth assassin class, single target (you) nuke (wrecking you). Had you caught him before he caught you, odds are you would have tore him up. I did this all the time as a Juggernaut and my Powertech. On the rare occasion a good Operative got to me, I got wrecked. Any other time I walked all over them.

 

difference being you can not fight back against an op. it is just poor design. it is one thing to have a glass cannon, it is quite another to have one with a lot of control.

 

not that i support this particular op nerf.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Ozzone]

Of course the first one was needed.

 

The second one wasn't.

 

And for damn sure this one coming in 1.2 isn't.

 

But, like I said before, when you're the smallest voice on the forum you lose.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Ozzone

[Ushela]

Dumb changes like these only happen when the BW devs who pvp get wtfbbq'd when they play.

 

I wonder why DPS wearing tank sins got no nerfs.....hmmmm

 

BW Devs who PVP: L2P

Edited March 22, 2012 by Ushela

[Cempa]

Firstly, I originally played a Juggernaut to 50, the Operative came 3rd. So this isn't coming from just an Operative point of view.

 

I don't understand the thinking behind some of the upcoming changes. Going back a month or two now Operatives were hit with a massive nerf, this massive nerf was not offset in anyway with a survivability mechanic. Yet here we are again facing another nerf to the Operative.

 

Are there really that many people at BioWare, and in the player community, that do not understand a stealth assassins role? Do they not understand the benefits of the class, as well as the drawbacks to the class? The benefit of the stealth assassin character has always been a "glass cannon", extremely high burst damage when played well. The ability to single target nuke a player and take them out of the fight. The drawback is if you get caught or interrupted before you can fully engage, you almost always die. High risk for high reward!

 

Yet here we are, once again, facing another nerf. It isn't as if we have a high absorption bubble on a short cool down, or an extremely high burst speed ability on an extremely short cool down. We have one "escape" which is on a fairly long cool down, and is interrupted by a DoT. We can also be easily detected while in stealth, the opposing player doesn't need anything special. If we approach wrong we are easily taken out of the fight by a good player.

 

The Operative doesn't need another nerf, if anything it needs some love. People just need to learn how to handle that specific role.

 

As for the change to the amount of credits gained from a WZ. Just an absolutely absurd move that is only going to further distance the PvP players from the game and push them towards other options.

 

 

After hundreds of hours of PvP OP is one of the best AC mitigation wise in PvP..I have NO doubt of that.

 

Combine everything and don't look at things in isolation, OP dies only if they cut off there own nose to spite there face...You literally need not die ever.

 

Between the 45 sec CD, cleanse, in combat vanish, AE CC, single target stealth, roots and snares and ability to heal self -if you didn't spec for 2sec heal and 7x% chance of not interrupted its your fault- medium armor the AC is too powerful.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Cempa

[Carbonated]

less credits in pvp is fine imho. you can do a warzone, you get credits either way, you can get a chunk in the bags, you can get from doing the quests. What does it cost to queue for a warzone? what risk of getting killed and losing is there? none at all. pvp shouldnt be where the money is it. Pve doesnt have that much unless you do the dailys, which can be accessed by all.

[Deathstroke]

People say they play well with an operative...any one can play well when you front load damage with an alpha strike that drops a target to nearly 50% of their HP. It's not hard. People defending a stunlock should grow up.

[PalawaJoko]

Who the hell is in charge of balance?

I guess the same people who decided to remove credit rewards from Warzones Edited March 22, 2012 by PalawaJoko

[JimmeyTheSaint]

Is this serious? Why the hell would Ops/Scoundrel get another nerf. I have played mine since I got the game, so I may be biased, but the first nerf was needed. Being able to down people that quickly WAS unfair. That said, we were basically taken down a huge peg and given nothing to compensate leaving us essentially dead if we can't kill people within the first 30 seconds of attacking. I do well, but that is only because (I believe) I am a relatively good scoundrel, while other scoundrels/ops I see don't do very well. I can't see any reason for another nerf to occur to this class, this soon.

[Joms]

Well only 1 month and a new game comes out and its to late for them to learn to manage an mmo. thier rep is destroyed and all upcomming games are gonna be comparied to thier failure in this game.

[JoeOrno]

That is the point of a stealth assassin class, single target (you) nuke (wrecking you). Had you caught him before he caught you, odds are you would have tore him up. I did this all the time as a Juggernaut and my Powertech. On the rare occasion a good Operative got to me, I got wrecked. Any other time I walked all over them.

 

If you fought an assassin/shadow one on one and even if you got charge on him and YOU won...he sucked.

 

Hands down.

 

Because they have *EVERYTHING* going for them against a pitiful class like the Juggernaught/Guardian.

[Coldin]

I believe Georg Zoeller is in charge of class balance. So...blame him. I know I do.

 

It's just frustrating that we're getting another damage nerf, but still nothing to make up for it. No utility or defensive cooldown. And no buffs to sustained damage. Maybe if they gave a DPS scrapper another way to generate Upper Hand, then we could at least take advantage of the reduced energy cost of Sucker Punch.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Coldin

[PalawaJoko]

I believe Georg Zoeller is in charge of class balance. So...blame him. I know I do.

 

It's just frustrating that we're getting another damage nerf, but still nothing to make up for it. No utility or defensive cooldown. And no buffs to sustained damage. Maybe if they gave a DPS scrapper another way to generate Upper Hand, then we could at least take advantage of the reduced energy cost of Sucker Punch.

I seriously feel bad for you Scoundrels, you really didn't need another nerf...

 

And seeing all the other changes regarding balance and PvP just makes me sad. But even in the darkest days, thought of GW2 always brings light.

Edited March 22, 2012 by PalawaJoko

[Coldin]

I seriously feel bad for you Scoundrels, you really didn't need another nerf...

 

And seeing all the other changes regarding balance and PvP just makes me sad. But even in the darkest days, thought of GW2 always brings light.

 

Hey, at least our healing tree got buffed! So, we might be the best healers in the game after 1.2. Maybe...

[DariuszPol]

My commnets on your post are in orange inside quote zone

 

Firstly, I originally played a Juggernaut to 50, the Operative came 3rd. So this isn't coming from just an Operative point of view.

 

Bounty Hunter, Operative, Juggernout, Sorcerer healer - almost same here. Operative WAS my favorite.

 

I don't understand the thinking behind some of the upcoming changes. Going back a month or two now Operatives were hit with a massive nerf, this massive nerf was not offset in anyway with a survivability mechanic. Yet here we are again facing another nerf to the Operative.

 

And it will be nerfed again to please majority. Operative is least played class in the game and he is still nerfed over and over again. This is why few days ago I canceled my subscription. No point playing it at lvl 50, no point doing it in ranked warzone. No point doing it after 1.2. Lack of character tranfer from dead server helped me a lot.

 

Are there really that many people at BioWare, and in the player community, that do not understand a stealth assassins role? Do they not understand the benefits of the class, as well as the drawbacks to the class? The benefit of the stealth assassin character has always been a "glass cannon", extremely high burst damage when played well. The ability to single target nuke a player and take them out of the fight. The drawback is if you get caught or interrupted before you can fully engage, you almost always die. High risk for high reward!

 

Operative should be weak in terms of survival. His counter for that is stealth. For high burst we pay by using knives - we fight on 0-10m distance. Trick is to TURN YOUR CAMERA AROUND and you will see us comming. Any AOE will pick us up. ANY stealth detector will pick us up. But people don't use stealth detector and complain about stealth classes because of their tunnel vision mode. If Operatives are so overpowered as some claims then WHY you almost never see them ? I was only operative on my server.

 

Yet here we are, once again, facing another nerf. It isn't as if we have a high absorption bubble on a short cool down, or an extremely high burst speed ability on an extremely short cool down. We have one "escape" which is on a fairly long cool down, and is interrupted by a DoT. We can also be easily detected while in stealth, the opposing player doesn't need anything special. If we approach wrong we are easily taken out of the fight by a good player.

 

Simple as that.

 

The Operative doesn't need another nerf, if anything it needs some love. People just need to learn how to handle that specific role.

 

Bioware put statment on that some time ago if you didn't notice. Maybe someone saved the link. Operative is nerfed because people complain about it. We pick up targets. If you stay on save 30m distance as Sorcerer, alone - you have 90% chance that I'm standing behind activating relics and acid blade.

If you have 1-30% health you have high chance that I'm standing behind you activating relics and acid blade.

This what get us nerfed. Picking targets. Because we were opportunists. Last thing people saw was US behing them, knife in their back while they are on the ground and our giggle or laugh from tactical advantage / upper hand.

It was NOT because we were overpowered or something. It was because people complain and Bioware want to please majority. It was easy since there is only few operatives out there.

 

As for the change to the amount of credits gained from a WZ. Just an absolutely absurd move that is only going to further distance the PvP players from the game and push them towards other options.

 

Another reason why I canceled my subscription. Bioware is killing PVP and I love PVP so I'm going to try another game. TERA and Guild Wars 2 are on the radar and until then - back to EVE Online.

 

I could only agree with Hidden strike cooldown since it was not so much of a problem. I use second HS after vanish ONLY if I'm in serious trouble AND I have chance to escape after I finish with guy. Second HS was a sacrifice for us. It was a trade. You can get another hit BUT your only way to escape after a fight is gone.

 

//Edit

Georg Zoeller - write to this guy and ask him *** is he thinking. If I remember it was him that told - Operatives get nerf because whiners complain. He didn't add that they want to please majority by destroying least played class in the game but it was kinda obvious from that statement.

Edited March 22, 2012 by DariuszPol

[FalmeseReb]

Both my classes are getting nerfed =( Focus guard and scrapper

[Frostybrown]

Don't get nearly all classes a nerf?