Is Vanguard a good counter to Marauder?

[Lijun]

I want to reroll my commando and looking for a class that will counter Marauders which it seems there are a zillion on my server.

 

How does Vanguard do Vs equally geared/skilled Marauder? Which spec would be best Vs Marauders?

 

Thanks

[Hizoka]

I want to reroll my commando and looking for a class that will counter Marauders which it seems there are a zillion on my server.

 

How does Vanguard do Vs equally geared/skilled Marauder? Which spec would be best Vs Marauders?

 

Thanks

 

honestly a good marauder has the tools to kill every other class with ease in a 1v1 situation. Your best bet when you find a marauder is go find a friend then its a pretty even fight. Its not that marauders are OP its just they have the tools to fight anyone regardless of AC simply because they have double the tools of everyone else. The drawback is you need double the skill to play one on that level.

 

 

TL;DR - No-one is a counter to a geared skill Marauder/Sentinel.

[Dee-Jay]

TL;DR - No-one is a counter to a geared skill Marauder/Sentinel.

 

That's probably true.

 

Marauders have every tool in the shed and I honestly think they're overrated when it comes to "skill".

 

I think the only class that might be able to go toe-to-toe with a Marauder would be a hybrid Shadow tank. They have just as many tools although their CDs aren't quite as good.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[Hizoka]

That's probably true.

 

Marauders have every tool in the shed and I honestly think they're overrated when it comes to "skill".

 

I think the only class that might be able to go toe-to-toe with a Marauder would be a hybrid Shadow tank. They have just as many tools although their CDs aren't quite as good.

 

if you don't think they take skill to be good at then you do not play one or you are not a good one.

[gofortheko]

I have a BM sent, not fully geared, hell I dont have 1 piece yet, but I will help you on my hardest fights. A well played well geared sniper who uses all his tools like a sent can beat a sent. I mean drop to cover do dps, knock back the sent and root, use their knife stun then run a way, use the cover mechanic to move around. Most snipers just get into cover use their knock backs and call it a day. But I ran into one sniper who used every tool, every trick, used the cover roll mechanic and beat me fairly easy. The hybrid Sorc build with eleventy billion stuns also is pretty tough for me as well, though the ones I have fought might have had better gear. Obviously a hybrid tank sin, and one other class no one mentioned, a DPS Jugg, of which I have learned a counter, but both the jugg and the mechanic I used to beat them will be gone next patch, as well as sorc hybrid probably getting taken out. The last, and probably deadliest is a well geared well played Operative, which can catch you without your cooldowns and destroy you in seconds.

 

 

I would rank these classes in order in toughness.

 

Operative

Sin hybrid tank

Sniper = Marauder

Sorc hybrid

DPS Jugg

Edited March 22, 2012 by gofortheko

[Malvantyr]

 

 

TL;DR - No-one is a counter to a geared skill Marauder/Sentinel.

 

I have a fully geared assault vanguard. There is no counter to a fully geared skilled marauder when he has all of his cooldowns. Marauders and sentinels win every server dueling contest.

[Hizoka]

I have a BM sent, not fully geared, hell I dont have 1 piece yet, but I will help you on my hardest fights. A well played well geared sniper who uses all his tools like a sent can beat a sent. I mean drop to cover do dps, knock back the sent and root, use their knife stun then run a way, use the cover mechanic to move around. Most snipers just get into cover use their knock backs and call it a day. But I ran into one sniper who used every tool, every trick, used the cover roll mechanic and beat me fairly easy. The hybrid Sorc build with eleventy billion stuns also is pretty tough for me as well, though the ones I have fought might have had better gear. Obviously a hybrid tank sin, and one other class no one mentioned, a DPS Jugg, of which I have learned a counter, but both the jugg and the mechanic I used to beat them will be gone next patch, as well as sorc hybrid probably getting taken out. The last, and probably deadliest is a well geared well played Operative, which can catch you without your cooldowns and destroy you in seconds.

 

 

I would rank these classes in order in toughness.

 

Operative

Sin hybrid tank

Sniper = Marauder

Sorc hybrid

DPS Jugg

bieng BM just means you PvP alot it says NOTHING of how good you are.

[Dovahbrah]

bieng BM just means you PvP alot it says NOTHING of how good you are.

 

... Where in his post does he declare he's good because he's a BM?

Edited March 22, 2012 by Dovahbrah

[exphryl]

I have a fully geared assault vanguard. There is no counter to a fully geared skilled marauder when he has all of his cooldowns. Marauders and sentinels win every server dueling contest.

 

Maras are not much of an issue in my opinion (does require some patience on when to use both stuns during their immunity which I see a lot of people fail at), Tankasins (well played ones) are much more difficult.

[Hizoka]

Maras are not much of an issue in my opinion (does require some patience on when to use both stuns during their immunity which I see a lot of people fail at), Tankasins (well played ones) are much more difficult.

 

you have not fought good marauders.

[Slurmez]

I have a half BM geared "Iron fist" vanguard and chew up most marauders running around with the BM red/black lightsabres, theres a few of note that I dont have a chance against so do what I can to annoy them.

 

Regardless I like my Vanguard, its fun and I recommend to anyone

[Hizoka]

I have a half BM geared "Iron fist" vanguard and chew up most marauders running around with the BM red/black lightsabres, theres a few of note that I dont have a chance against so do what I can to annoy them.

 

Regardless I like my Vanguard, its fun and I recommend to anyone

 

i agree its a great spec, just marauders/sentinels are the best at killing things solo, its nothing wrong with vanguard, they just have the tools to wreck everyone.

[DarthPunitor]

I have a BM sent, not fully geared, hell I dont have 1 piece yet, but I will help you on my hardest fights. A well played well geared sniper who uses all his tools like a sent can beat a sent. I mean drop to cover do dps, knock back the sent and root, use their knife stun then run a way, use the cover mechanic to move around. Most snipers just get into cover use their knock backs and call it a day. But I ran into one sniper who used every tool, every trick, used the cover roll mechanic and beat me fairly easy. The hybrid Sorc build with eleventy billion stuns also is pretty tough for me as well, though the ones I have fought might have had better gear. Obviously a hybrid tank sin, and one other class no one mentioned, a DPS Jugg, of which I have learned a counter, but both the jugg and the mechanic I used to beat them will be gone next patch, as well as sorc hybrid probably getting taken out. The last, and probably deadliest is a well geared well played Operative, which can catch you without your cooldowns and destroy you in seconds.

 

 

I would rank these classes in order in toughness.

 

Operative

Sin hybrid tank

Sniper = Marauder

Sorc hybrid

DPS Jugg

 

thank you, i was going to say that as an operative, i never have a problem with sentinels. In fact, I dont really have a problem with anyone if i get the drop on them (and i dont even have hidden strike yet!)

[Quintan]

Let me drop my 2 cents here since I have both 50 Scoundrel(main) & Sentinel

 

Sentinel takes skill to play because you have so many abilities that you really need almost twice the memory and finger relocation plus speed to get the work done.

 

I have tried every class to an extent and scoundrel is by no means a cake walk but it feels easier than Sentinel because you get to pick your fights/situations most of the time when as a sentinel you have to react a lot.

[Hizoka]

thank you, i was going to say that as an operative, i never have a problem with sentinels. In fact, I dont really have a problem with anyone if i get the drop on them (and i dont even have hidden strike yet!)

 

lowbie PvP is not what peope are talking about... that just means you are fighting with half your tools just like that. Opratives have to be lucky to beat a Mara or they caught them at half HP

[Balduvar]

I would say a good marksmanship sniper or sharpshooter gunslinger is a very strong counter for a marauder. I don't really do much for dueling but when I encounter a marauder 1v1 in a war zone on my sniper I frequently kill them before they drop me below 80% health if I have my cool downs up. Even if things don't go well I still usually win. I typically have to mess up pretty bad against a marauder that is pretty good in order for me to lose.

[exphryl]

you have not fought good marauders.

 

Actually I have. I'm sorry you are struggling with them.

 

They are, in the current form of Specs Pre-1.2, not as hard to counter as people make them out to be. It's a timing thing on your abilities rather then going all out face to face and expecting a good result. Minus their "immunity shield", they are fairly easy to deal with.

 

Save your CC Break for Force Choke (as that will increase their smash damage greatly if they get a full duration), keep them snared as much as possible. It's a bit costly for them to keep YOU snared so if that's what they are doing they won't be putting out much dps.

 

When they pop immunity use your first stun, they'll CC break, use your second. By the time it's over their immunity is loss.

 

If you want to get fancy if you see them pop Cloak Of Pain snare them and run away so it's duration expires, do nothing else after that first snare. (This is best taken care of after their leap since it'll be on cooldown, which they'll usually Leap > Force Choke, CC Break then run away). They'll lose 20% reduction to damage and their damage shield as a result for 30 seconds or so. It's a bit difficult to do so if you have terrain handy use it. (If I recall, it's 8 sec duration if they do not get attacked. I may be off a few numbers though)

 

To many times I see people try to go toe to toe with them, that's when they become difficult. It requires a bit more thought compared to the other classes to beat. Their bleed crits heal them but it's not nearly enough to really save them unless you mess up terribly.

Edited March 22, 2012 by exphryl

[Hizoka]

Actually I have. I'm sorry you are struggling with them.

 

They are, in the current form of Specs Pre-1.2, not as hard to counter as people make them out to be. It's a timing thing on your abilities rather then going all out face to face and expecting a good result. Minus their "immunity shield", they are fairly easy to deal with.

 

Save your CC Break for Force Choke (as that will increase their smash damage greatly if they get a full duration), keep them snared as much as possible. It's a bit costly for them to keep YOU snared so if that's what they are doing they won't be putting out much dps.

 

When they pop immunity use your first stun, they'll CC break, use your second. By the time it's over their immunity is loss.

 

If you want to get fancy if you see them pop Cloak Of Pain snare them and run away so it's duration expires, do nothing else after that first snare. (This is best taken care of after their leap since it'll be on cooldown, which they'll usually Leap > Force Choke, CC Break then run away). They'll lose 20% reduction to damage and their damage shield as a result for 30 seconds or so. It's a bit difficult to do so if you have terrain handy use it. (If I recall, it's 8 sec duration if they do not get attacked. I may be off a few numbers though)

 

To many times I see people try to go toe to toe with them, that's when they become difficult. It requires a bit more thought compared to the other classes to beat. Their bleed crits heal them but it's not nearly enough to really save them unless you mess up terribly.

 

i am play a top geared sentinel... no trooper/BH hurts me

[Dovahbrah]

i am play a top geared sentinel... no trooper/BH hurts me

 

Do you realize that half the posts in this thread are yours?

[Funick]

A perfectly played dps operative starting in stealth using all their cool downs will beat a marauder using all their cool downs (pre 1.2) there's simply too many stuns/knockdowns. although our important cool downs have shorter cool downs and if we get the jump on them its a different story.

 

an assassin(tank spec) is a very close fight with similar play level and gear the assassin will beat marauder the majority of the time but can go either way.

 

powertech is ok they can put out similar damage but their defensive cool downs are much weaker which is why marauder will generally win this fight, kiting and careful stun timing is the powertech's only hope and marauder has enough tools to deal with that.

 

these all assume everyone in full bm with decent enhancements.

[SirWai]

Assult spec can destroy a sent/marauder, just make sure your burst hits in the later half, if you guys havent played an assault vanguard you havent seen burst, i won a match in 3 seconds against an equally geared sent lol, boom 2k 4k 4k 4k 3k 4k, though thats when im super lucky everything crits and procs which they are nerfing... the reason i say later half is because of that 99% dmg reduction, most use it around 25% in what i see, however a good burst should do 50% instantly preventing them from using it lol. also you can save your cyro grenade till they pop that and then toss dots on them, and get ready another grenade and everything. And i must say my sent buddies are pretty good.

 

just play smart, know the class, know what to do to prevent this and this.

[UncleJimbo]

Hi,

 

Nice to see people interested in vanguards.

From my own experience you are very dependent on the talents when it comes to counters.

 

Currently I run a variation of Iron Fist and I can tell you that you can kill the following classes if equally geared:

 

- sorcerers healers and dps

- mercenaries dps, for healers be prepared to have a couple of minutes if they are skilled

- average skilled jugs

 

In the current patch if you go assault specialist you can burst almost any class down with a few lucky procs for HiB.

 

I suggest you wait for 1.2 and see the general thought about the class because many complain about the changes; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the changes are not so dramatic, but still, they might not be to your liking.

 

Edit: just having my coffee, if my thought pattern is not top notch I apologize

Edited March 22, 2012 by UncleJimbo

[Hethroin]

i am play a top geared sentinel... no trooper/BH hurts me

 

Congratulations. I would venture to say you have not fought a good pyro powertech.

 

I play a 80% BM-geared Assault Vanguard and have killed "top geared" marauders 1v1 with 75% health left. These aren't dules, but 1v1 encounters in ilum. I have likewise killed tank-sins-in-lol-dps-gear.

 

If you're starting at 4m and both of you are ready for the fight then the marauder is at an advantage. Starting the fight at 30m with you getting the jump on him is a much different story.

 

I do the opposite of what was recommended by someone earlier in the thread. I pop all my DPS cooldowns early in the fight; this is a DPS race and I'm ensuring a head start. When I drop to around 70% I pop my shield, adrenaline rush, and med pack (if applicable). At this point the marauder is at 50%, I'm at 90% and taking less damage than he is. Panic sets in and he starts making mistakes, popping cooldowns, and/or trying to run. I continue to strafe away spamming ion pulse. If he closes I SS, use a stun and keep moving. If he is maintaining a snare the stun creates room, and my own snare keeps him back.

[me_unknown]

Actually I have. I'm sorry you are struggling with them.

 

They are, in the current form of Specs Pre-1.2, not as hard to counter as people make them out to be. It's a timing thing on your abilities rather then going all out face to face and expecting a good result. Minus their "immunity shield", they are fairly easy to deal with.

 

Save your CC Break for Force Choke (as that will increase their smash damage greatly if they get a full duration), keep them snared as much as possible. It's a bit costly for them to keep YOU snared so if that's what they are doing they won't be putting out much dps.

 

When they pop immunity use your first stun, they'll CC break, use your second. By the time it's over their immunity is loss.

 

If you want to get fancy if you see them pop Cloak Of Pain snare them and run away so it's duration expires, do nothing else after that first snare. (This is best taken care of after their leap since it'll be on cooldown, which they'll usually Leap > Force Choke, CC Break then run away). They'll lose 20% reduction to damage and their damage shield as a result for 30 seconds or so. It's a bit difficult to do so if you have terrain handy use it. (If I recall, it's 8 sec duration if they do not get attacked. I may be off a few numbers though)

 

To many times I see people try to go toe to toe with them, that's when they become difficult. It requires a bit more thought compared to the other classes to beat. Their bleed crits heal them but it's not nearly enough to really save them unless you mess up terribly.

i totally agree with you. most vanguards do the mistake trying to fight all the way in melee range.

 

i am also playing an iron fist like build. i kite them as between their gap closer cd and hit hard with my close range abilitities when i am forced to be close.

 

they cannot slow you all the time, but you can do this!

 

but i admitt, when i played my sentinel (watchman) i never saw a powertech doing this with me. most are specced for pure damage and get eaten in close range.

[DarthPunitor]

lowbie PvP is not what peope are talking about... that just means you are fighting with half your tools just like that. Opratives have to be lucky to beat a Mara or they caught them at half HP

 

well i also have a 37 marauder and 50 merc, so ive played on all sides of the fence