PvP Sorc Healing & 1.2 (Bioware pls let us discuss)

[Heimur]

If you could refrain from answering within the quote, it would make it a lot easier to respond properly.

of course that makes no sense: It's not what i said. Re-read it and try harder. There is no justifiable reason to make a "full" healing spec non-viable in pvp. Both a full spec and some hyrbids should be viable in pvp. In pve, however, particularly for competetive progression guilds, you're quite unlikely to see much tolerance for a "healer" being some hybrid that lacks revivification, but there is justifcation for that. What's hard to understand about this position such that you've completely misinterpreted it?

Ok, I'm glad to see that it was my misinterpretation that made it seem like that's what you were saying. Believe it or not, I tried to make more sense of it but perhaps I was too tired; I don't know and in the end it doesn't matter. Suffice to say, I disagree. I have no more problem with a full healing spec not being viable in PvP than I have with a dedicated healer running a hybrid spec not being viable in PvE.

 

as it stands after 1.2, that may very well be the justification some latch onto, but my point had nothing to do with "what is the justification now that 1.2 is released." my point is that it's a design flaw to create that justification in the first place, which is why 1.2 is flawed with respect to sorcerer healing. Why should a class/spec/role, i.e., sorcerer healer, be funneled away from it's 31 point talents, particularly its best heal? It shouldn't....particularly whenother classes aren't.

Perhaps it's because the only MMO I have really played before is GW, but I don't see why the 31pt talent is so sacred. So what if you don't pick it up? There are dozens of other talents you don't pick up as well. Furthermore, as you know, I don't agree that Revivification is our best heal in PvP, so being "forced" not to take it is not a big deal in any way for me.

 

no, i'll be taking it and making do and standing by my position that it's broken to design the game in a manner that makes it harder for a class to be fully spec'd for their role. That is what i've argued and what you've failed to address. Instead you've simply attacked me for not getting on the hybrid bandwagon as tho i'm supposed to think it's just fine to not be "allowed" to take my 31 point talent because it screws up survivability

I'm sorry that you feel I have attacked you. I'll do my best to use less aggressive argumentative techniques. As to your point (as I stated above) I just don't share your vision as a 31pt spec being sacred in any way, so I have no more trouble with it being not viable than I have with any other spec not being viable (and as _MinMaxer_ pointed out there are definitely specs that are terrible).

 

i'm not suprised you feel that way seeing as how you've misinterpreted everything i've said and gotten upset about it, telling me not to "complain" and such. I'm not saying we can't heal "effectively" without it. Not at all. I'm saying that we heal much better with it and should be "allowed" to do so instead of game design and nerfs herding us away from it to appease crybabies who don't like us having access to it.

Yes, clearly I misinterpreted what you were saying about Revivification. Now, I hope that by now we both understand each other's position on it, but I'll stress again that I disagree with us healing much (much being the operative word) better with it in PvP. To me it's a situational heal that is sometimes good to have, but I do not feel gimped for not having it.

 

Furthermore, I can assure you I did not get upset about it, I merely made the mistake to be too aggressive when trying to make my point. So don't worry about that.

 

i should not need help in a 1v1 situation. Period. That is broken. I should be viable as a fully spec'd healing sorcerer and have the ability to hold my own and a fair chance of actually winning a 1v1 situation. Dps has apparently convinced bw to break us so that is not the case and you're carrying their water. If more than one person gets on anyone, they should need and likely will need help.

Again: I said nothing of the sort. You'll need help if you get melee trained (which means more than one enemy in my mind). I even said explicitly in one of my posts that one guy pressuring me will reduce my outgoing heals but not remove them, and certainly won't kill me unless I slip up.

 

and, fortunately, there was no class that could do that before 1.2. Reports of healing sorcerers being able to do so were complete bs and were likely borne of terrible players doing stupid things, being completely inept at using their interrupts, stuns/cc etc., and not realizing that the healer they were trying poorly to focus fire was guarded, that taunts were in play, etc

Indeed, I did not mean that sorcerers were able to do it before. That point was merely to illustrate that we're no worse off than mercs (and probably ops).

 

All i'm saying is that the full 31 point spec should also be just as viable, but bw has somewhat botched it and created some real problems for it.

And herein lies the core of our disagreement. As you now know, I simply disagree with this. Now, if it's a part of their design goal to have 31pt corruption be viable in PvP, then yes, I have to agree with you.

 

yes, that's the favorite argument of every merc and op out there who is jealous of what, extrication? Lame. Mercs and ops have just as much utility and it's been beaten to death in the 6,000+ post thread about the nerfs. Why should mercs and ops have more survivability and greater healing output? They shouldn't. Dead healers don't heal. Reducing sorcerer healers to the only option being, even in a 1v1 situation, "run away like a sissy and try to los and hope he doesn't just follow you" takes pretty much all the fun out of being a healer and just encourages people to respec dps and let someone else feel like an underpowered weakling target dummy who is there for no other readson than his stupid bubbles, the occassional heal and his extrication ability for huttball. There is absolutely no justification for making any healer, not just sorcs, an easy 1v1 kill that has to play cat and mouse the whole wz...let alone out in the rest of the game. Are we supposed to be an easy 1v1 kill for the other faction when they happen upon us while questing too? Now, i'm not saying that we can't still survive in some 1v1 situations if lucky or if we're able to escape and run away with our tail tucked between our legs, but again, that shouldn't be the only option, and bw has pretty much reduced us to that if fully spec'd. That's wrong.

First off, I am definitely a sorcerer, and have made posts before that should support that, but I did have a merc healer on my old server. Personally, I love Extrication, and not just for huttball, but that is not the only utility we have that mercs don't; we also have an interrupt, a slow, a force sprint, and (with the hybrid spec, which is my main concern) a root on our knockback and an AE mezz on our shield. The fact that we have a shield which means we can pre-shield also should not be overlooked. The operative interrupt is a lot weaker because as a healer they can't exactly waltz up to the enemy healer or ranged DD and interrupt them, their stun is less utility because they can really only use it on a melee attacking them, they have no knockback at all but instead an instant short range AE mezz. They do have an invis that definitely can be useful, but in the end my rather uninformed opinion is that the operative gives a dps sorc no more trouble than any of the other healers.

 

As for the rest, I'm guessing you're talking about the full 31pt spec. If you're not, you're quite frankly wrong in how we perform in a 1v1 situation (furthermore I assume that you mean when we get 1 person pressuring us in a WZ). You're probably right in that that's how a 31pt corruption plays in such a situation, and I concede that if the 31pt spec is meant to be viable in PvP then you're right. However, I myself have no trouble with it not being viable.

 

Lastly, I would like to point out that I'm not saying that the sorc for sure is perfectly balanced. I do not have enough information to determine if we need tuning. All I'm saying is that the nerfs were not completely unjustified, and we're not destroyed in PvP.

[Wynn]

Got all 3 healers, Baby Sorc is in it's 30s now and doesn't feel any weaker then the other two in pvp and flashpoints so far.

 

From someone that's been healing on an Op for months things I love about the Sorc, It has a larger "mana" reserve then the other two healers by far, allowing me to throw out more heals. Force Speed is so good for pvp it's not funny allows for escape, some shortcuts in huttball, and allows me to catch up to teammates that are about to die.

 

Just a point of view of a healer that made a Sorc in 1.2

[Genttry]

Nice, my thread was resurrected and even better- it isn't totally filled with qq.

 

I've run about 30 warzones post-patch. Half of them I ran as my pre-1.2 build which was the standard full heal pvp spec to include reviv. It is definitely harder to stay alive. It is definitely harder to get casts off.

 

I played the next 15 or so games as the madness healing hybrid mentioned earlier here (approx 15 points in madness, too lazy to link spec but pvp sorcs are familiar with it.) It was definitely more fun, but I still didn't feel the impact I had on matches pre 1.2

 

In my OPINION- It is still hard to say, exactly, how bad healing is without running in a full pvp group in a rated warzones. There, you may have a guard, some peels, etc. You will get focus-fired more, but so will the healers on the other team. I definitely won't give up on healing till I get first hand experience in rateds. In the meantime, I have an assasin and an operative I'm noodling around with.

 

However, I do concede one point- pug healing is frustrating as heck, especially if you are known as being a competent healer because you are focused the entire match. Before 1.2, we could run around and get an epeen boost in pugs because it really was easier to stay up. It really is interesting to see the charts at the end of the games now. The overall healing ouput in the roughly thirty games I've played is much less than pre 1.2. Whether that's attributed to healer class attrition or the difficulty in actually performing healing tasks is hard to gauge. It may be both.

 

Last comment- I read the forums a lot at work and it seems like the OVERALL player base is happy with the seeming decreased performance of healers. It seems like DPS'ers enjoy having a straight-out slugfest with little to maybe even no heals. However, The PvP'ers who will focus on rateds know better. Even if Bioware made these changes because healers were too powerful, I am not hopeful that healers will get buffed back up again (even a little) because so many non-healers like this change. It is just a frustrating time to be a SWTOR healer in PvP. This may be the new balance for a long time. The good news is that the healers who become really competent now may be able to REALLY be appreciated instead of "loolo u play a sorc so u shuld heel 4 one million and extricate 6 scores in huttball evry match loolo."

Edited April 19, 2012 by Genttry

[swtorEleani]

Got all 3 healers, Baby Sorc is in it's 30s now and doesn't feel any weaker then the other two in pvp and flashpoints so far.

 

From someone that's been healing on an Op for months things I love about the Sorc, It has a larger "mana" reserve then the other two healers by far, allowing me to throw out more heals. Force Speed is so good for pvp it's not funny allows for escape, some shortcuts in huttball, and allows me to catch up to teammates that are about to die.

 

Just a point of view of a healer that made a Sorc in 1.2

 

Get to 50 and and feel the slowest kicd of healing experience ever... feels like sticky tree gum

[Wynn]

Get to 50 and and feel the slowest kicd of healing experience ever... feels like sticky tree gum

Trust me I can't wait till I hit 50 and show that you can heal as a Sorc .

[Sock_Bramson]

I'll throw my 2 cents back in here, since I think my first round got buried.

 

I cannot personally speak to the effectiveness of a madness/ corruption hybrid, although it does sound like it would be pretty fun. However, if you mainly want to be a healer, I'd highly recommend going with a lit./ corruption build. You get alot more in the CC and force regen/ lower force cost side of the equation, which makes it much easier to do your job. Force Speed every 20 seconds is fantastic, the extra lockdown on jolt is great for pissing off other healers and commandos/ mercs, and electric bindings makes overload an extra juicy ability. You can now root people in fire/ acid, and you may start to cackle a bit the first time you root the entire enemy team's respawn wave in a voidstar to ensure a bomb gets planted.

 

Plus, you can (and should) still focus on dps when needed with the help of chain lightning. Throw out 3 long-range lightning strikes for the force regen and the odds are pretty good for an insta chain lightning. If none of those crit, your shocks and affliction ticks probably will, reducing the cost of your next two spells.

 

I must admit, I do miss the ability to basically will my teammates back to life with 2 quick DIs, and I definitely have to work harder with the changes to expt. My first 3 matches after 1.2 dropped were pretty depressing, honestly. However, I stuck with it, fine-tuned my spec, and got used to the new play-style. Now I'm enjoying myself immensely again. I usually get anywhere from 300k-450k (my highest so far this patch) heals, and 75k-150k dmg in combat-heavy matches.

 

Stick with it, my fellow healers, and you will see that things aren't as depressing as they first seemed.

[Genttry]

I just unsubbed; I didn't feel like being frustrated anymore, plus my entire pvp guild quit already except for one person, heh. I'm not frustrated with actual sorc healing so much, but I am frustrated with Bioware's direction in pvp and still no rated battlegrounds. At this point, Bioware admitted that there are many more people who are interested in pvp than they anticipated. However, when I look at the botched world pvp in Illum, the changes in patch 1.2, crazy implementation of resolve, really poor communication to subscribers and what I perceive as a pvp development team who don't seem to be in touch with their pvp community, I just don't feel like waiting with baited breath for changes that may never come. We don't even know when rateds will arrive. I feel like Bioware overpromised at Pax, et al and continue to under-deliver with their pvp.

 

My opinion of the 1.2 pvp sorc healer after playing some games:

1) It is definitely still "do-able." It is much harder, yes, but good players will make it work. In huttball, sorcs are still the best of the three healers because of extricate. On the rest of the maps, different story. Again, this is my opinion.

2) We definitely lost burst healing. Combined with a very noticeable increase in damage from most classes, it is simply more difficult.

3) Healing isn't as fun. I agree that we needed some nerfs. However, it seems like a lot of dps are happy with this new increase in damage and healers becoming much easier to kill. I was hoping that Bioware would slow the game down, but instead it is much more of a zerg-fest akin to WoW arenas in some seasons. In that game, however, really good healers could put out enough burst healing to counter as long as they positioned correctly, saved cooldowns, caught peels and cc'ed.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the replies and good discussion in my thread peoples. Somehow we managed to not get our thread deleted or redirected. I like to think that it is because we didn't have a lot of people cursing the developers, other players and the class. A lot of people offered intelligent, well developed posts and, again, you have my gratitude. Hopefully, if and when rateds come out, it will be fun for you fellow sorcs! I really do hope you healers take it to the marauders, et al. For hardcore pvp'ers, we know when a game hit its mark and it is sooo much fun to compete in a well designed pvp system against worthy opponents. If you think SWTOR "hit the mark" or that there is hope that it will, then I hope you have fun competing in rateds!

 

Cheers to the prospect of a good pvp experience with the new games upcoming or, alternatively, going back to wow to find a team to get gladiator again before season's end. Peace out, yo.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Genttry

[Wynn]

Everyone that quitting over nerfs common event with mmos, you know we all getting a month free so why not try to work out healing in 1.2 or play another class?

 

I mean my baby Sorc I started in 1.2 should be level 40 tomorrow.

 

Still top healing in warzones and solo a heroic name champ in pve tonight, I know none of this counts till I hit 50 but its still one really powerful class. I stand by one of the most powerful tools for me has been force speed for getting to people that need help, shortcuts and for escapes vs my other 2 healers..

[XtremJedi]

I stand by one of the most powerful tools for me has been force speed for getting to people that need help, shortcuts and for escapes vs my other 2 healers..

 

Escapes have been one of your most powerful tools at level 40 vs your other healers?

 

X

Edited April 23, 2012 by XtremJedi

[Wynn]

Escapes have been one of your most powerful tools at level 40 vs your other healers?

 

X

 

I have two 50 healers working on Sorc now the thing that has standed out the most for me in pvp from their toolbox is force speed.

[Blotter]

I have two 50 healers working on Sorc now the thing that has standed out the most for me in pvp from their toolbox is force speed.

 

<50 sorcerer healing in PvP is absoltuely meaningless. Get him to 50, spec him full corruption, experience the constant PvP rectal exam, and THEN come back here to tell us "sorc healers is fine and teh bestest"...link the videos that prove it too.

[_Minmaxer_]

<50 sorcerer healing in PvP is absoltuely meaningless. Get him to 50, spec him full corruption, experience the constant PvP rectal exam, and THEN come back here to tell us "sorc healers is fine and teh bestest"...link the videos that prove it too.

 

Why gimp yourself with a poor pvp spec? Full Corruption is not how a sorc should spec in pvp. If you want to be "Full heals" play Corruption/Lightning up to Electric Bindings.

[iphobia]

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9716/screenshot2012042218102.jpg

Sorc Heal is fine...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... until you get focused by 1 well geared melee. They didn't seem to be interested in me in this game at all, only guy who tryed to kill me was a Gravround-Commando.

Based on such numbers, dps-players whine in the forum and healers get nerfed.

Throw me into a game with the best pubs on my server and I will do only the half of this while having 6+ deaths.

This is all Aoe-whoring, everything we are still the best at. Burstheal - forget it, you can't outheal a melee with equal gear and skill, even with LoS-kiting and stuff.

 

Oh, and take a look at the medals. Somehow the new objective-points for attacking/defending seem to bug from time to time. Defended the doors multiple times, stood near the doors in both rounds.

Edited April 23, 2012 by iphobia

[Blotter]

Why gimp yourself with a poor pvp spec? Full Corruption is not how a sorc should spec in pvp. If you want to be "Full heals" play Corruption/Lightning up to Electric Bindings.

 

You again? Selling more of your "hybrid is a perfectly legitimate pigeonhole for BW to force us into" nonsense? Look, I don't give a crap that a gimpy hybrid spec has become slightly more viable than a full healing spec. IT IS BAD DESIGN. PERIOD. You can disagree with that all you want, but that's my position whether you like it or not.

 

It has nothing to do with "oh, well, at least we have a work-around by going hybrid." Rather, it has everything to do with BW having a horrible design philosophy and ZERO understanding of what people consider to be fun and enjoyable and fair. There is absolutely NO justifiable reason to force us out of a full healing spec in order to be viable in PvP and have survivability. NONE. My healing should NOT have to be gimped in order to continue to play my class competetively and I should not be punished severely for taking my 31 point healing talent if that is the style and role I wish to play.

 

Now run along...nobody wants to read you patting yourself on the back and pretending you have it all figured out and know how to play better than everyone who disagrees with you. You're just carrying BW's water and it's people like you who will provide BW with the justification for not fixing the problems they've created.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Blotter

[_Minmaxer_]

Marauder damage is not that bad as their dots and heal debuff can be dispelled. Pyrotechs are in a whole other class. They are the only class I am legitimately afraid of in PVP. They are squishy if you catch them at range, but if they get on top of you its brutal.

[_Minmaxer_]

You again? Selling more of your "hybrid is a perfectly legitimate pigeonhole for BW to force us into" nonsense? Look, I don't give a crap that a gimpy hybrid spec has become slightly more viable than a full healing spec. IT IS BAD DESIGN. PERIOD. You can disagree with that all you want, but that's my position whether you like it or not.

 

It has nothing to do with "oh, well, at least we have a work-around by going hybrid." Rather, it has everything to do with BW having a horrible design philosophy and ZERO understanding of what people consider to be fun and enjoyable and fair. There is absolutely NO justifiable reason to force us out of a full healing spec in order to be viable in PvP and have survivability. NONE. My healing should NOT have to be gimped in order to continue to play my class competetively and I should not be punished severely for taking my 31 point healing talent if that is the style and role I wish to play.

 

Now run along...nobody wants to read you patting yourself on the back and pretending you have it all figured out and know how to play better than everyone who disagrees with you. You're just carrying BW's water and it's people like you who will provide BW with the justification for not fixing the problems they've created.

 

Where is it in the rules of MMO design that games must have 41 talent points and the 31pt talent of a spec tree has to be good for both pvp and pve? Certain specs are designed for certain things. Tell people you want to spec full Madness to heal the next raid and see what they say. Sorry, you can't do things exactly how you think you should be able to and still succeed, but as has been said before, bad choices lead to bad results. I actually like the design of the class, and find it fun and enjoyable, but I still think we are too good. At least in the hands of the exceptional players. But balancing a ranged dps such that it is competitive in the hands of an average player and not a God in the hands of an exceptional player is no easy feat.

 

In any event there is much more parity than there was before. Instead of being on top of a mountain looking down we are only a hill, and there are a few classes besides us. A few classes still need slight buffs, or us and a couple others need some reworking.

 

I'm pretty sure I have more people interested in reading my posts than yours, but I'm too busy patting myself on my back and telling myself how good I am to pay attention to what others are saying.

[Blotter]

where is it in the rules of mmo design that games must have 41 talent points and the 31pt talent of a spec tree has to be good for both pvp and pve? Certain specs are designed for certain things.

 

so your response is to preach at me more? Good for you. "certain specs are designed for certain things"...hahaha...do you know what "tautalogical" means? Go look it up. Full healing spec is meant for healing as effectively as possible. Period. As i said, there is absolutely no justification...none...for forcing us to take a hyrbid spec that gimps our healing compared to a full healing spec. Taking that away and forcing the class to forgo certain talents, including the "top" healing tree talent is bad design. Healing is different than dps in this regard, particularly since it has just one tree. Dps has multiple trees, which lends itself to mix-n-match hybridization...and, the fact is, when someone specs lightning/madness hybrid, they weren't forced to take talents that were not part of the role they were choosing. Forcing healers to take a hybrid path pulls points out of the one healing tree, prevents us from taking a very effective, albeit situational, pvp heal as one of our powers, and forces us to take talents in non-healing trees.

 

tell people you want to spec full madness to heal the next raid and see what they say. Sorry, you can't do things exactly how you think you should be able to and still succeed, but as has been said before, bad choices lead to bad results.

 

indeed. And bw making the bad choice of nerfing sorcerer healing into the ground, thereby forcing us away from being able to take 31 points in the healing tree in order to have suvivability as a pvp healer is having bad results. You running around pretending you're better than everyone else who disagrees with this change on a design level, essentially telling everyone that they are stupid or don't understand how to play if they won't just suck it up and accept being pigeonholed into a hybrid spec...that does not change the fact that bw has made a bad decision with bad results.

 

i actually like the design of the class, and find it fun and enjoyable, but i still think we are too good. At least in the hands of the exceptional players. But balancing a ranged dps such that it is competitive in the hands of an average player and not a god in the hands of an exceptional player is no easy feat.

 

In any event there is much more parity than there was before. Instead of being on top of a mountain looking down we are only a hill, and there are a few classes besides us. A few classes still need slight buffs, or us and a couple others need some reworking.

 

is bw paying you? Seriously. You might as well not even really be someone who plays a sorcerer. All you're doing is regurgitating misconceptions of how sorcerers played pre-1.2 that were spewed by every other class who didn't know what it was actually like to play a sorcerer, particularly a sorcerer healer, pre-1.2. Fixes were necessary...the double dip, some increase in the difficulty and importance of force management, etc. Massive nerfs that resulted in a complete re-tooling of the class's mechanics and the viability of different talent point distributions were not necessary. We were never "gods" and you'd know that if you actually played the class.

 

i'm pretty sure i have more people interested in reading my posts than yours, but i'm too busy patting myself on my back and telling myself how good i am to pay attention to what others are saying.

 

happens every time in every mmo i've witnessed nerfs in: A very few players take to the forum to pretend they're better players at that class than everyone else and to sell the new pigeonhole spec. Know-it-alls who don't really want to discuss whether the company made a mistake...but instead want to pretend like it's all just fine and that if you don't agree with the crap spec they're selling, then you're not as good of a player. Sorry pal, but your ego-stroking isn't a good argument. The facts remain:

 

Does the hybrid spec now provide more survivability and viability than a full healnig spec, which now has extremely poor, class-breaking survivability and viability? Yes.

 

Should it? No.

 

You've provided zero compelling argument as to why this situation is ok or constitutes a good design decision. Instead, you've simply focused on the fact that the hybrid workaround is something that makes you feel smarter and like a better player than everyone else who doesn't like being forced into it and who believes that a full healing spec should still be viable. Nobody is trying to take your hybrid's viability away. So why are you trying to justify bw's bad decisions that result in taking away our full healing spec?

 

 

12345

Edited April 23, 2012 by Blotter

[Heimur]

You again? Selling more of your "hybrid is a perfectly legitimate pigeonhole for BW to force us into" nonsense? Look, I don't give a crap that a gimpy hybrid spec has become slightly more viable than a full healing spec. IT IS BAD DESIGN. PERIOD. You can disagree with that all you want, but that's my position whether you like it or not.

 

It has nothing to do with "oh, well, at least we have a work-around by going hybrid." Rather, it has everything to do with BW having a horrible design philosophy and ZERO understanding of what people consider to be fun and enjoyable and fair. There is absolutely NO justifiable reason to force us out of a full healing spec in order to be viable in PvP and have survivability. NONE. My healing should NOT have to be gimped in order to continue to play my class competetively and I should not be punished severely for taking my 31 point healing talent if that is the style and role I wish to play.

 

Now run along...nobody wants to read you patting yourself on the back and pretending you have it all figured out and know how to play better than everyone who disagrees with you. You're just carrying BW's water and it's people like you who will provide BW with the justification for not fixing the problems they've created.

 

Actually, last time it was me, and I was trying to be polite when I explained my position and explicitly stated that if their design philosophy aligns with your preference then they probably do need to buff sorc healing in PvP. I have no problem with you having a preference that differs from mine, and I seriously doubt _Minmaxer _ does too. I hope that favour is returned, and that you're ok with us having a different opinion than you. In the end it's the game designer that decides who of us they think is right. If their decision is sufficiently upsetting then speak with your wallet. I know I'll be fine if they make hybrids unviable, so it's no biggie for me.

 

I wish I had fraps installed today, but as I haven't decided if I'm gonna buy it that was unfortunately not the case. Why? Because we had a couple of WZs where we were getting beaten pretty handedly, which doesn't happen often. They out-dpsd us pretty severely (often getting top 5 dps slots) and I was the top focused target, but I still managed to heal significantly, and stay alive for a while. If I got help I lasted longer, but the point is, that even under those circumstances I didn't feel useless, and I still contributed significantly.

 

Oh well, I know you want 31pt corruption to be viable in PvP, which that had nothing to do with, but hopefully it would stop all the people posting that we die from one dps. One can always dream.

[_Minmaxer_]

12345

I played a 12/11/18 hybrid spec until the announced changes 1.2. I had all the brokenness fast cast dark infusion off of Force Bending and Wrath/CL. Lots of things needed to be changed. I'm not pretending I am better than most sorcs; I am. Not that that is a very grandiose claim; there are lots of sorcs playing that aren't as good as they could be, due to poor gear/spec choices. My goal is to help those players improve, I believe some of them even appreciate it.

Full healing is not broken, it's playable in PVP, and good players will still do well with it and put up bigger healing numbers than a hybrid spec. It probably even has a place with 8-man queues where you can craft a team, but currently that is not the case. But big number don't make you win WZ's, knockback roots and instant whirlwinds to protect people that are capping nodes do. I can't heal as much as a full-heal sorc, but 9 times out of 10 I'm a bigger asset to my team.

 

I agree with the changes to the sorc class because I think they are all things that needed to be changed, but I hardly think the devs are infallible. But discussing what the devs could/should/shouldn't have done does not help me, or anyone else, improve at playing the class. My opinion has changed on things, most notably the Corruption/Lightning hybrid, which I previously didn't like, but now recommend to certain play styles. The problem is that there is so much QQ on these forums its impossible to have proper discussions where the merits of different things can be debated.

 

So if you don't like what I have to say, ignore me, or block me, or start actually contributing, but quit wasting everyone's time with your rants.

[Genttry]

This thread is very reminiscent of WoW in vanilla before arenas started and before we could click on any given player's avatar to actually see if they were a good player in arenas. So many people talked smack and were class experts on the forums. It always fascinated me to see which (very few) mages and paladins (the classes I Played) actually had gladiator ratings. A lot of the smack talk stopped for fear of someone calling you out on crap ratings. Arena Junkies was created where only top ranked players could post, but all could read. Unfortunately, there were trolls on those forums too but at least you knew that the diatribe re: "how to best play your class" was coming from a semi-verifiable "good" player. Rated Warzones are more akin to rated BGs in WoW though, and I'm interested to see how Bioware chooses to allow players to look up other's ratings.

 

Oh God, I got sucked back into the thread! I'm not interested because I unsubbed, looolo...just remember that one day maybe someone can look you up to see if there is substance to your expert skills.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Genttry

[stafaureus]

This thread is very reminiscent of WoW in vanilla before arenas started and before we could click on any given player's avatar to actually see if they were a good player in arenas. So many people talked smack and were class experts on the forums. It always fascinated me to see which (very few) mages and paladins (the classes I Played) actually had gladiator ratings. A lot of the smack talk stopped for fear of someone calling you out on crap ratings. Arena Junkies was created where only top ranked players could post, but all could read. Unfortunately, there were trolls on those forums too but at least you knew that the diatribe re: "how to best play your class" was coming from a semi-verifiable "good" player. Rated Warzones are more akin to rated BGs in WoW though, and I'm interested to see how Bioware chooses to allow players to look up other's ratings.

 

Oh God, I got sucked back into the thread! I'm not interested because I unsubbed, looolo...just remember that one day maybe someone can look you up to see if there is substance to your expert skills.

 

Lol this post is true. There are so many pvp heroes until a rating system evolves. These so-called experts will stop posting or, if they continue to post, will be ridiculed for talking out of the side of their neck. The good players don't post much except for in a forum like junkies. Even there, the best players rarely post. Can you believe that there is actually a thread on these sorc forums saying something like "are you haveing problems with playing sorc? let me help!" lol. I guess we'll see if that minmax guy is actually worth anything when bioware allows public search function of ratings, but even then in an 8v8, you still have the potential to be carried.

[Genttry]

Lol this post is true. There are so many pvp heroes until a rating system evolves. These so-called experts will stop posting or, if they continue to post, will be ridiculed for talking out of the side of their neck. The good players don't post much except for in a forum like junkies. Even there, the best players rarely post. Can you believe that there is actually a thread on these sorc forums saying something like "are you haveing problems with playing sorc? let me help!" lol. I guess we'll see if that minmax guy is actually worth anything when bioware allows public search function of ratings, but even then in an 8v8, you still have the potential to be carried.

 

Well, it is clear that he thinks of himself as a very good sorc; it almost reminds me of Affix posts in AJ but Affix was actually a good ladder mage. Not sure if Affix played in tournaments. I was a good glad ladder mage in WoW, but when I tried one tournament, not so much because of UI restrictions, the skill of other top players and other things. Anyway...

 

I wasn't really talking about that Minmax guy tbh though. If someone like him tells you they are good on the forums, you take it with a grain of salt. If he is so good to think he can make posts to "help" other sorcs, it sounds like an epeen issue, but again, who cares? My point is that its too bad bioware doesn't have a rating system out like WoW where we could actually read a post and feel semi-confident that at least this person isn't FoS. I could care less about this Minmax self-proclaimed pvp sorc hero. Maybe he is, maybe he is FoS, only ratings could give us forum dwellers any indication of that.

 

edit: I can promise you one thing, though. Rated 8 v 8 will change how people view classes, strats and, specific to this thread, healing. People can claim this or that, but until they get into that environment and see what its like to have vent v. vent teams with peels, strats, etc. a lot of this feels like crappy conjecture.

 

edit: ok, now I am definitely done posting here, so much for my previous farewell heh

Edited April 24, 2012 by Genttry

[FreiaFett]

I have a healing sorc and a healing sage- I have my sorc traited for 31 corruption and my sage traited with a hybrid spec.

 

Do I feel more survivable in my hybrid spec...not necessarily. I find that I don't always get the 2 second root when I really need it. I hit stronger, but it's mostly induction which can be interrupted. I might feel a hit more survivable with BM gear. The main issue I have with survivability and there is no spec that helps with this is that all of my meaningful heals can be interrupted. I have had rounds where every singe heal was interrupted and there was nothing I could do. I would like to see that change. If commandos/mercs can have a stance and they have heavy armor, then why can't we?

 

How do the heals compare to 31 coruption? They are a little bit weaker, and in maps where you hunker down and defend like Voidstar or Novare Coast, I really really miss my healing circle. I've had rounds where I've healed over 300k in hybrid spec wearing crappy champion gear. But to be honest, I don't feel like I help the team as much healing hybrid. I make a good pocket healer for one or two people, as opposed to a good healer for the whole team.

 

And like so many other players, I don't think that I should have to trait a certain way in order to be more survivable. I shouldn't be forced into a particular play style because the developers could not fix bugs.

[FreiaFett]

I left out, and will mention here because while it is painfully obvious I don't want people to think that I have forgotten it. The most major problem with our class and either spec won't fix it is the lack of a burst heal. DI takes entirely too long to cast in pvp or pve. It's pretty sad that the sorc seems to be more of an off-healer in an ops due to the horrible cast time of DI AND the horrible force management options. The improved cast time we had pre 1.2 gave us at least some survivability. It only got changed because bad players didn't think to interrupt us.

 

No burst heal = fake healer. Fake healer = no fun.

[Sock_Bramson]

Lol, some of these posts are getting a bit silly. Regardless of how good certain players may be in the game, it is still very possible for them to give good advice. Lots of people on these forums have been complaining that sorcs are broken, and vehemently shout down anyone who tries to say otherwise, even when they are simply trying to offer up some suggestions.

 

Why all the hate for hybrid specs? A.) Corruption/Lit. is very effective because of the extra cc, force speed every 20 secs., longer interrupts, force efficient dps w/ lit. strike and CL, where B.) all you really lose is 6% bonus healing and an AoE, and C.) it is an incredibly fun spec to play. Please, give it a try before you rage about it.

 

If you absolutely have to have your AoE, it is still possible, albeit harder. I've seen a few sorcs out their throwing down AoEs and while managing to avoid being focus-fired; they simply have to play much more carefully and have teammates that are good at (shocker) teamwork, i.e. peels, gaurds, taunts, focus fire, etc. However, I find myself perfectly able to heal effectively without an AoE, and I have extra "oh crap" buttons at my disposal. All this combined with the aforementioned teamwork is fantastic.

 

Yes, we all miss our quick-cast DIs, and yes, consumption is pretty crappy now. However, we are not broken, not by a long shot. Our burst may be lower, but it's not gone; shield + HoT + Innervate + trinket + DH x a bunch until shield is back up = lots of healing. No, we can't keep up someone when they get mobbed by the enemy team, but we really shouldn't be able to. As far as force-management goes, both of the other trees have talents that help alleviate the "loss" of consumption.

 

I won't try to claim to be the best sorc ever ever, but I do consider myself competent, and I think the people I play with would agree. Since 1.2, I still regularly top the healing charts, do more damage than the other healers, and have very few deaths. (no, I don't have any screen shots handy, but if I did someone would probably just throw out the old "charts mean nothing" argument) Go ahead and assume I'm secretly terrible if it makes you feel better, but try to at least take my advice into consideration; it may just help. If you're on Dreshdae Cantina, you're more than welcome to hit me up anytime for tips/ WZ shenanigans.

 

-Hedley Melange, lvl. 50 Sorc, PVP Healer-

Edited April 24, 2012 by Sock_Bramson