Monkar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thing is if they implement DM WZ's, people will want balance for that. This would eventually lead to people wanting Team Deathmatch, which is no different from Arena to me, and as such that would become the basis on which all balance in determined. And then WZ's would become unplayable, much like WoW's are for the most part since the PvP game is based around 3v3 balance, instead of general/objective pvp. It's not that I don't want a DM style WZ, I just don't like where it'll lead to; Give them an inch, they'll take a mile, springs to mind. I don't know how in your mind this game is balanced for general objective PvP. The burst vs health pool ratio is pretty absurd. WoW battlegrounds currently play tremendously better than WZ's do currently, even though their balance is pretty screwed up right now. All arena does is allow you to better understand who is doing the absurd damage and how to counter it. Right now WZ's are more of a derp fest than any instanced PvP I've ever seen. The ability to exploit the Z-Axis by several classes is example enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsith Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Real PVP-ers? That made me laugh. This game is too ****ed up to support a deathmatch. Unless Real PVP-er means rolling the right class for the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I don't know how in your mind this game is balanced for general objective PvP. The burst vs health pool ratio is pretty absurd. WoW battlegrounds currently play tremendously better than WZ's do currently, even though their balance is pretty screwed up right now. All arena does is allow you to better understand who is doing the absurd damage and how to counter it. Right now WZ's are more of a derp fest than any instanced PvP I've ever seen. The ability to exploit the Z-Axis by several classes is example enough. You do realize that the z axis is moving side ways right I think... you mean the Y vertical axis (In that a class positioned high, is basically untouchable) I agree with most/all you said /signed again pls give a good ol' deathmatch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 This, it'll be fun for the first few days and then people will be all up in arms saying "X ALWAYS WINS NERF". And then the cycle begins again... You do understand you're taking the side of 'less options' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have absolutely no problem with deathmatch so long as it doesn't turn into an esport type deal where it nets you BiS gear making it necessary to do to be able to compete in even non-ranked wzs. A death match should get the same rewards as the current war zones, it's just another flavor. There should be nothing special about it, other than it's not objective based. Just more options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahebish Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 there really should be a warzone where if you die you cannot respawn and the last player remaining has bragging rights on the ranks or whatever. then you really see who the real battlemasters are cause the best will obviously win more often or I'll just stay in stealth until it's a 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) You do realize that the z axis is moving side ways right I think... you mean the Y vertical axis (In that a class positioned high, is basically untouchable) I agree with most/all you said /signed again pls give a good ol' deathmatch! The (X,Y) coordinates in MMO's are typically the ground as it would appear on a flat map and the Z is coming up through that map. Not that it matters, its all arbitrary. We could call it the LOLYOUHAVETORUN axisif we wanted. Edited March 22, 2012 by Monkar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I'm all for more options, but a few things come to mind: 1. Last man standing - WoW has this outside of formal Arenas in the Gurubashi Arena. Now I don't about other realms but on my realm it was popular for a couple of weeks. Now about the only people I see playing in it are my 10 year old grandson and his friends. 2. Arenas - I have no objection to adding Arenas, with the caveat that gear is no better that than you can get form WZs. I've only done a few, but my son is a multi-season gald. Part of the problem with this is that, in my opinion, you really need combat logs so you can tweak your rotations, etc. The personal logs may help if enough people post them and there is a "simulation craft" tool under development for SWTOR. Min/Maxing is a good part of the fun for many people and it is difficult to do without the tools. Balance is also an issue. WoW there have always been the FOTS (flavor of the season) comps in WoW. You either rolled one of the toons for a viable comp or you got stomped by good comps consisting of players with equal skill. Blizzard has even stated that they will make no attempt to balance anything but 3s and 5s for Arena. I'm not sure if the SWTOR developers could ever balance the classes enough to make 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 Arena viable. I know that for myself the inability to have some non-subjective measure of what changes I make to my armor/talents etc do to my DPS is really beginning to grate on me and may eventually drive me back to WoW or some other game. (I currently only have 2 50s a Sith Sorcerer and a Gunslinger) Edited March 22, 2012 by Erasimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleFuzzy Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 While some people may love this, I would like ability to just have a deathmatch from time to time. Go to Ilum, wait. You'll end up deathmatching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Go to Ilum, wait. You'll end up deathmatching. I think most are looking for quality deathmatch options and not lackluster jokes like Ilum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Mindless killing? Just go to Ilum or Tatoonie. Shame that it took to page 4 for this to finally be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuthroat Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Kills there will reward merc comms 1.2 iirc this true? commendations for kills out there????? omg i hope so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Alma- Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 THere are currently 3 warzones in the game which give you the option of doing the objectives or playing team death match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 the most popular online games on steam are counter-strike 1.6 (1st place) and counter-strike source (3rd place) wanna guess what is played the most (PUGs and competitive)? the defusal mode. Defusal mode ends when all the enemy players are dead or the time runs out 99% of the time. It is quite rare to see a defusal while people are still alive at high skill levels. The reason why it is used is because without a time limit, people will camp in a corner the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadgos Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Is anyone else sick of objective based pvp? Why cant we just have one warzone where there is actual pvp and pvp actually matters! If this game is truly considered half pvp, then please Bioware, make some real pvp and STOP just STOP with the objective based pvp game. You will have no pvp player base left in a few months if this dont get addressed, I am sure not many people that actually play this game just to pvp will be here if 2 things dont happen. 1- Warzone with "king of the hill" status atleast its more about pvp than pvo, or a real deathmatch, more kills = win. 2- Ilum isnt fixed where it is actually about faction vs faction and just pvp... Lots of threads on this issue, so i wont go into it.... So brainless zerg pvp kills makes you more of a "real" pvp player then those that like pvp objective based games? What a dumb title for a post requesting warzones centered around kills only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleFuzzy Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think most are looking for quality deathmatch options and not lackluster jokes like Ilum. If they think the objective-based warzones are a joke then they're not going to find "quality deathmatch options" in a DM warzone either. There are really two complaints being registered here, one of them ultimately boils down to lack of quality in pvp in general, and the other is people who are upset because they have to pay attention to something besides their attack sequences to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 i love the part where you talking about "why can't we have a warzone where pvp actually matters!" just think about what you are saying. you are wondering why you cannot have instanced pvp that matters. instanced pvp. instanced. this is hilarious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Is anyone else sick of objective based pvp? Why cant we just have one warzone where there is actual pvp and pvp actually matters! If this game is truly considered half pvp, then please Bioware, make some real pvp and STOP just STOP with the objective based pvp game. You will have no pvp player base left in a few months if this dont get addressed, I am sure not many people that actually play this game just to pvp will be here if 2 things dont happen. 1- Warzone with "king of the hill" status atleast its more about pvp than pvo, or a real deathmatch, more kills = win. 2- Ilum isnt fixed where it is actually about faction vs faction and just pvp... Lots of threads on this issue, so i wont go into it.... lol "real" pvpers indeed, you just want a moronic mash, just because the objectives are too complex for you doesnt mean they should abandon it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulhaber Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Stealth... wait for other players to kill themselves... backstab the 5% remaning health last man standing... WIN!!!! Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemyDMartin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Dear OP, Thank you for this I enjoyed the laugh. "Real pvp players" wanting death match... I have to say as a person who pvp's a minimum of 20 WZ's on a day to day basis and has leveled all of his alts from 20-45 almost exclusively via wz's I would consider myself among the demographic which you apparently have declared yourself able to represent as a whole with your obvious generalization. My point is this...although I am all for more warzones just for the sole factor of more variety in my day to day "fun time" I also must say you OP are fooling yourself if you think any of the current objective based WZ's are not Player vs. Player (after all last I checked this is what the P v P stood for)...let's see first and only point necessary: when my WZ que pops I am put into a WZ against "surprise" other players. Wait...what? So me (a SW:tOR player) is competing with other players against an opposing team consisting of "surprise" more players? O M G ...imagine that. Sarcasm aside, stop fooling yourself ... you and yours simply put, wish to do away with any social requirements of "teamwork" in an objective based pvp warzone for the sole factor said "teamwork" interferes with your ability to "get off" without *________ * fill in the blank with any non skill based generic single button or 3 button smashing spam Easy examples given: Grave Round, Tracer Missals, Any form of lightning/flying pebbles AND ANYTHING ELSE I MAY HAVE LEFT OUT THAT IS OVER USED FROM OVERCOMPENSATION FOR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING (aka lack of skill) sincerely, another player PS: OP am I considered a "real" pvp'r or am I imaginary and not "real"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OdamanPrime Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Deathmatch pvp would be nice. I don't mind the strategic nonsense, but it does get annoying when a team getting stomped wins with 0-3 kills and 10+ deaths each just because they had decently timed respawns and threw themselves at objectives. Granted usually this is because of bads on our team.... breaking cc with aoe, stacking stuns to give instant full resolve etc, but still. Edited March 22, 2012 by OdamanPrime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balmuck Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) So brainless zerg pvp kills makes you more of a "real" pvp player then those that like pvp objective based games? What a dumb title for a post requesting warzones centered around kills only. So brainless zerg PVP, where suiciding and constant death, to interrupt caps and objectives, makes you more of a "real" PVP player then those who like PVP death match based games? You people, who argue against kill rewards in WZs, make no sense. What's the point of PVP'ing if you can't organize groups to kill, push and cap objectives, properly? Look at the game right now. Alderaan: Most common strategy is to cap two side flags and hold them, while constanly suiciding and dying to prevent the other team from capping. This is made worse by the ability of stealth classes, to stealth up, cleanse all DoTs and sap people, over and over again, to prevent caps. One Shadow, can interrupt caps, over and over again, with almost no risk of dying, while his team respawns from dead, and flies right back into the fray... within 3 fricking seconds. The team that just pushed that side, has very limited time to kill them all, and cap the flag, which is pretty much impossible for the exact reasons I said. No matter what group composition that team has, they get butt punched by silly game mechanic and diminishing combat resources, while the idiots that died 20 times, get no punishment for doing so, and actually get rewarded with a win. Same thing applies for Voidstar and Hutt Ball. Voidstar is nothing more then a huge suicide fest when defending. Most of the time, win/loss is decided by the stupid barrier respawn, which starts at the time when the first defender dies... so, unless you're some sorta Jesus Christ, no way you can time kills to make sure everyone dies at the right time. You can have 60-70 kills in Voidstar and still not win the WZ. Hutt Ball is not any better. It's 100% decided by certain classes, such as Sages, Vanguards and Juggies and if you have a premade that is composed of those classes, you basically get a free win. I already said it before, if each one of your death, gave the other team a base amount of valor and exp, you'd have second taughts about suiciding over and over again, feeding the other team, and even if you win, you get jack **** for it. Edited March 22, 2012 by Balmuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Nice opinion, heres mine. Kill count pvp is easy mode, for the simple minded. Objective based requires coordination and coordination equals skill. To bad so many in this game can't do either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I agree with the OP we need a team deathmatch wz. It should have cool things like battlements and other structures. When you die you should stay dead for the round, and there sould be a best out of 3 or 5, that way death would carry some weight stealthers would have to have special rules to avoid just hiding in the corner then coming out and snatching away victory Too many people are trying to team deathmatch their way to victories in games like huttball which is annoying when you're actually trying to secure a W Edited March 22, 2012 by HBninjaX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleFuzzy Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So brainless zerg PVP, where suiciding and constant death, to interrupt caps and objectives, makes you more of a "real" PVP player then those who like PVP death match based games? You people, who argue against kill rewards in WZs, make no sense. What's the point of PVP'ing if you can't organize groups to kill, push and cap objectives, properly? And in the bulk of matches of death-focused pvp, at least half of each team spends its time hanging back afraid to engage in any fighting whatsoever for fear that something will happen to their character. In my experience the playstyle is only really engaging for people who like hunting sheep. The gameplay deathmatching prompts is not any more fun and is frequently less fun for many to most players than objective based pvp. Decent world pvp is the only route to a decent deathmatch environment that I've encountered. I can understand the frustration caused by its lack in SWTOR but DM warzones aren't the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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