Why the proposed 1.2 Pyrotech changes are poorly thought out

[Poulay]

I would add , we pyros have currently a great burst and overall dps , that's a fact. Maybe the best, but beside a 15sec shield ( 25% damage reduction) on a 2 min cooldown and a crappy 2,5 ae stun we don't have any defensive ability. Currently pyros are one of the fastest classe in the game to kill. We do hit hard but we do fall rapidly and are easy to control.

[Assaultrooper]

I would add , we pyros have currently a great burst and overall dps , that's a fact. Maybe the best, but beside a 15sec shield ( 25% damage reduction) on a 2 min cooldown and a crappy 2,5 ae stun we don't have any defensive ability. Currently pyros are one of the fastest classe in the game to kill. We do hit hard but we do fall rapidly and are easy to control.

 

And we don't have stealth like operatives... where the "burst" was 100% of the dps... Here our "burst" in the long run accounts for less than 20% of our overall dps (Assuming we you need atleast 2 out of our 4 abilities to crit)

[Iserath]

/signed

[carjohnrod]

Lets keep this thread bumped please. Its literally one of the very few, if not only, thread that actually has logical math and formulas to prove why this is basically going to ruin this spec for PvE as well as PvP.

[Bamajawn]

I believe that Merc Pyros should get more defense capability as was alluded to earlier in the thread. That is, if they're going to lessen our burst, limit our DFA radius, etc. Pyro Merc isn't a particularly popular or overpowered class, and we are squishy to boot. However, it's a fun class to play. My concern is that we are going to be irrelevant or last pick for the team after 1.2. While my main focus is PvP, I can foresee being passed over for flashpoints and ops in favor of other dps classes. We are being packaged with the PT Pyros in this nerf and I don't think that BW understands the differences between the two specs. Edited March 22, 2012 by Bamajawn

[CapuchinSeven]

So many of these posts from every class whining they get a nerf to damage without looking at the nerfs to healing.

[Karandor]

Pyro/Assault needs the nerf.

 

 

Highest PvP damage in the game right now and it ignores armor.

 

 

I have a BM vanguard and have played all 3 specs, assault is just insane. You get a little bit lucky and you gib anything.

 

BW has taken a stance that they don't want fast TTK in PvP. Pyro/assault with some luck is almost as fast as a pre-nerf operative.

[Assaultrooper]

Pyro/Assault needs the nerf.

 

 

Highest PvP damage in the game right now and it ignores armor.

 

 

I have a BM vanguard and have played all 3 specs, assault is just insane. You get a little bit lucky and you gib anything.

 

BW has taken a stance that they don't want fast TTK in PvP. Pyro/assault with some luck is almost as fast as a pre-nerf operative.

 

First You obviously didn't read the OP, he is just proving that the nerf goes just WAY too far... Not that we don't need nerfs.

 

On which note I don't believe we really needed any :\ As a marauder I kill people just as effciently as the luckiest streaks with my Pyrotech.... Just way more reliably...

[Coramac]

Exactly.

 

Concerning your post on the Vanguard forums, I'll be honest in that I don't have much experience with the Tactics tree. However, should these changes go through I will definitely be trying Tactics out. That Pulse Cannon buff is looking quite cool and I feel like it will add another dimension to the spec.

 

So, I spent about 5 minute brainstorming between queues last night and came up with a solution you didn't put up there but that you and others might like that completely addresses the extended lucky streak of RNG burst.

 

Using Rail Shot or HIB with Partical Accelerator and Ionic Accelerator buff additionally procs "Overheat" debuff. Lasts 9 seconds and stacks up to two. Rail Shot and HIB cannot be used with 2 a two stack; Ionic Accelerator and Partical Accelerator can still proc.

 

Super RNG burst eliminated, spec functionality largely maintained.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Coramac

[Agooz]

Bioware fully realize this already but you are not playing a popular spec/class therefor they balance it accordingly to not frustrate the majority of people playing jedi/sith. The nerf is working as intend and i feel sorry you spent time to explain what BW already know.

 

No the nerf is NOT working as intended. The intent was the limit the back to back RS bursts but more importantly not allow PTs to have a Hybrid st/pyro spec. The result however is greatly reduce the burst damage, completely messing up heat management in a tree that already had issues with heat, and utterly destroy the fun and exciting factor that the RNG created for this tree.

All pyros know that to some extent the back to back crit RS was a little over the top. But of course no one QQs about the times RS doesnt proc at all and we die even easier that any other AC because of lack of utilities. The way they went about it was completely off the wall.

It like wanting to lower the speed of a fast car. Instead of working with the engine to lower the Hp of the car, you just removed 2 tires.

[jitsuo]

ROFL, just got off the PTS and I can say for certain everyone should reroll Mara, its complete faceroll, no other class can stand up to you in the slightest.

 

P.S. PT is pretty useless now, maybe 2nd worst class in the game, but who cares just reroll Mara.

 

Bioware really knows what they are doing lol.

 

I would love for a guy like you to re-roll Mara. I'll wreck you on mine. I guarentee that I'll see you on these forums, a week after 1.2 hits, crying nerf on Snipers and Tankasins after you realize that Maras aren't the end-all-be-all

[Tourne]

Soon as I heard of PTS notes...all I could imagine was just having Rapid Shots as my only hotkey or be OVERHEATED after pressing 4 buttons.

[Tourne]

I would love for a guy like you to re-roll Mara. I'll wreck you on mine. I guarentee that I'll see you on these forums, a week after 1.2 hits, crying nerf on Snipers and Tankasins after you realize that Maras aren't the end-all-be-all

 

You missed the point- the point is that it was a needless nerf when overall the classes as they stand at current are fine with the exception of Cross Merc Healers being too much and Op Heals being a tad under.

 

Mara's do incredibly well doing what they should do, so does the PT...running in and thwacking the backline asap causing mayhem- while the dps Sorc and Snipers do the same thing from the backline etc.

 

Everyone currently fails into place- cross heals are a complete nightmare when you are the side short on healers...Huttball is certainly better for a team with Pulls, Leaps, Grapples and all that jazz. Yet, it all seemed to come together...even in geared pugs versus premmie.

 

Being a Sorc and PT, I didn't want Ops nerfed anymore- if anything Tankasins have me shaking my head...but sure as day they are beating on Ops like a redheaded stepchild...why?

 

Too many changes, the hybrid builds had been a good thing since it brought more diversity to the engagements.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Tourne

[Terrorshard]

Bump. This will make assault spec near unplayable due to a combination of low damage and bad resource management. Tactics tree even after it's buffs is still subpar, speccing tactics will make you half of a marauder.

[Leoness]

I already rerolled Mara, it's so easy to just waste everyone, bring on the buffs!

[keltoigael]

How do I always manage to pick a class in every MMO I play that completely gets nerfed into the ground. The real fact is pyro/assualt are the minority. A lot of people ignore us because we look like tanks. The RNG feel was amazing. I love mid range combat. We are not the top of dps charts. The luck and gamble of the railshot crit and procing to get another off is what made it appeal so much. The 6 second CD seems extreme. I could deal with 4 secs. Dont even get me started on the poor ops. 12 sec back stab? Who is this dev team?

[Ravenolf]

I already rerolled Mara, it's so easy to just waste everyone, bring on the buffs!

 

You and everyone other FOTM player.

[Terrorshard]

It wouldn't really be so bad if Tactics wasn't utter crap. Good players will always do well but you need something to work with too at some point.

[Calindra]

If you dont think Pyrotech's needed to be toned down then you failed to maximize your dmg...Guildy Vanguard does 600-900k every voidstar and like 500k-600k alderrans..balanced i know especially when he can pop a shield that absorbs a truckload of dmg. And you show math all non crits to make it look like you dont dish out the mass dmg

 

Not sure what server you're playing on (or what game you're playing for that matter), but I've never seen dmg numbers even close to that high.

 

Sorry, but I call BS also.

[Calindra]

I'm the "other" Pyro... a Merc. I haven't seen complaints about us being overpowered, yet these changes will reduce our damage output as well since they are in the shared tree. I'll be curious to see if the 1.2 changes hurt the spec.

 

Based on the numbers posted by the OP, it looks like we'll be negatively affected by the changes while still lacking some abilities (interrupt for example) that make the PT such a good spec. I have the feeling that LoS will become more of a part of my rotation than it is currently.

 

Sadly, my alt is an... Operative.

 

I feel your pain. I'm in the same boat...rowing beside you.

[Scoobings]

Well designed, reasoned, balanced changes. That's why it won't happen LEW LEW LEW.

 

(Srsly BW read this)

[Scoobings]

Not sure what server you're playing on (or what game you're playing for that matter), but I've never seen dmg numbers even close to that high.

 

Sorry, but I call BS also.

 

Not to mention this thread acknowledges that they needed to be turned down, but like many of the heavy handed changes BW has made it is poorly thought out and will be overall pretty crippling to PT.

 

Oh yeah, also:

 

Lawl at 900k damage a warzone.

[Terrorshard]

Sentinels and Marauders are going to smoke everyone. They buffed and everyone else nerfed. You should see their forum their are all giving each other high fives.

[busterbone]

If you dont think Pyrotech's needed to be toned down then you failed to maximize your dmg...

I do think Pyrotech burst needs to be toned down. I think nerfing our overall damage and heat management in addition to toning down our burst is going too far.

 

Guildy Vanguard does 600-900k every voidstar and like 500k-600k alderrans..

Even if your "guildy" does 600k-900k damage every voidstar (which is extremely doubtful) most of that damage is AoE (which is being toned down with this patch).

 

balanced i know especially when he can pop a shield that absorbs a truckload of dmg.

Our shield doesn't absorb any damage, it reduces damage. It is one of the few defensive cooldowns we have. The other abilities being one that restores 15% health over 10 seconds on a three minute cooldown (each tick = ~160 health), and a 2.5 second AoE stun. Personally I feel that Pyrotechs are lacking in defenses, but that is a discussion for another thread.

 

And you show math all non crits to make it look like you dont dish out the mass dmg

Actually, I did factor crits in to my math. I also noted that the exact damage values I used don't really matter, because I'm comparing pre-1.2 Pyrotech damage to post-1.2 Pyrotech damage. I am comparing Pyrotech with itself, not any other class.

[Wheem]

If there's any class/spec in the game that needs a nerf - this is it. The burst damage kind of reminds me of what I was able to do with a Frost Spec'd DK in WoW a couple years ago, except even that required more lucky RNG than Pyrotech/Assault Specialist does. There's one Pyrotech in particular on my server that has literally unhealable damage, and routinely bursts people down in a tiny handful of GCDs - the spec is totally broken. In fact, I don't think it's too much hyperbole to say that it's one of the most overpowered specs in the history of MMORPG PvP; it requires 0 skill to be extremely potent with, and really is the epitome of faceroll.

 

'Course, buffing Sentinels/Marauders is still incredibly silly. Their burst damage is only slightly less ridiculous than Pyro/A. Specialist, and they don't really suffer the same (potential for) energy cell/heat problems.

 

Lastly, I gotta give the OP some props for recognizing that the burst damage needs a nerf, and not just joining the, "OMG WE'RE GETTING NERFED INTO THE GROUND I QUIT!!!!" crowd of bads.