World PVP Done Right

[BaneOfKings]

Today , 08:56 PM

*

After much thought, world pvp cannot be made perfect by the developers, or if at all. In wow, world pvp was created by the players, and the gave incentives by the developers later in the form of achievements and such. But people have to realize..... Do you really need a reward to pvp? Or can u just play for fun and skill? I remember on azgalor ( a wow pvp server) many years ago had the best 4 horde guilds ( equiv to empire ) team up, and sacked stormwind, the alliance's Capitol city...... They held the city for 2 days, and then blizzard had to server reset because the alliance couldn't get in!!!!

 

Did the horde get rewarded for sieging the city? None at all. But it was fun. Bioware, please open Capitol worlds. Or, make a city on each planet and grant rewards to the faction that controls most of them! All of the planets have markers that either say empire, republic, or contested! Why not borrow winter grasp, but use it on each world, slowly implementing them planet by planet and show the war you created!

 

Basically, in my opinion, it all comes down to the players. I do not believe people need rewards to pvp, as pvp is about skill, but world pvp is about fun. Can any mmo company make a world pvp area that could work? Sure. But not without players participation! The community used to do things simply for the hell of it instead of only staying in instances of pvp; my most fond memories are raiding the opposing faction's city and seeing if we can sack it or not, and if we do, we would kill their faction leader and the opposing faction would have to take their city back. This is all we need for world pvp, but it's up to the players to make it happen; we do not need a carrot on a stick in the form of gear from the developers we just need people to get off their asses, and get organized. I'm not talking 50 people, but groups of 12 could easily hit lower level towns and then force people to have to have switch on their mains to go save the outpost!

 

For rewards? No! Just cause! But people do not do that anymore..... People just want their damn gear...... And once they spend countless days grinding for gear... They complain about having no content... Well IMO the content is the world bioware created... We just have to go out and get organized...

Edited March 20, 2012 by BaneOfKings

[Khoraji]

I agree.

 

World PVP only works if the play base is interested in making it work. Now a nice guild war system or SOME type of reward/tracking system (world pvp kills/deaths is all you need really) would add some intersest. But without the right type of players, it would never be enjoyable.

[MPagano]

WoWs world pvp was successful before they had world pvp zones because Blizzard created a tremendously immersive world. A living, breathing reality composed of diverse and often times vibrant environments that inspired players to go out and explore with friends. People wanted to try and raid Orgrimmar because...it's Orgrimmar. Look at it! Take a ship across the ocean, ride across the Barrens up to the gate of the Orc capital. It was epic.

 

Blizzard also understood the importance of establishing significant persons in the world. Environments are one thing, but the creatures that populate them are just as important. People wanted to see Cairne die. They wanted to destroy Sylvanas. It was hugely significant for them even though there were no real consequences or rewards.

 

It's not about the type of player. Players can only play the game they're given, and they will play it the way it's designed. Blizzard allowed people to express themselves in this way, and people wanted to make those expressions because of the world they were in.

 

 

In this game? It's all instances, zoning, prefabricated landscapes dressed in different colors. It's brand new and outdated at the same time. You can't even go to the other teams'' capital. I only know what the faction leaders look like because they're plastered on the game box.

 

This game's world pvp is out of the picture. Just like the rest of the game, pvp is going to be instanced.

Edited March 20, 2012 by MPagano

[unicornfive]

Today , 08:56 PM

*

After much thought, world pvp cannot be made perfect by the developers, or if at all. In wow, world pvp was created by the players, and the gave incentives by the developers later in the form of achievements and such. But people have to realize..... Do you really need a reward to pvp? Or can u just play for fun and skill? I remember on azgalor ( a wow pvp server) many years ago had the best 4 horde guilds ( equiv to empire ) team up, and sacked stormwind, the alliance's Capitol city...... They held the city for 2 days, and then blizzard had to server reset because the alliance couldn't get in!!!!

 

Did the horde get rewarded for sieging the city? None at all. But it was fun. Bioware, please open Capitol worlds. Or, make a city on each planet and grant rewards to the faction that controls most of them! All of the planets have markers that either say empire, republic, or contested! Why not borrow winter grasp, but use it on each world, slowly implementing them planet by planet and show the war you created!

 

Basically, in my opinion, it all comes down to the players. I do not believe people need rewards to pvp, as pvp is about skill, but world pvp is about fun. Can any mmo company make a world pvp area that could work? Sure. But not without players participation! The community used to do things simply for the hell of it instead of only staying in instances of pvp; my most fond memories are raiding the opposing faction's city and seeing if we can sack it or not, and if we do, we would kill their faction leader and the opposing faction would have to take their city back. This is all we need for world pvp, but it's up to the players to make it happen; we do not need a carrot on a stick in the form of gear from the developers we just need people to get off their asses, and get organized. I'm not talking 50 people, but groups of 12 could easily hit lower level towns and then force people to have to have switch on their mains to go save the outpost!

 

For rewards? No! Just cause! But people do not do that anymore..... People just want their damn gear...... And once they spend countless days grinding for gear... They complain about having no content... Well IMO the content is the world bioware created... We just have to go out and get organized...

 

WoW didnt had world pvp...it had ganking...

If you wanna get an idea of how world pvp is like, check DAOC or Warhammer

Blizzard never bothered with World pvp as far im concerned...They only did with instanced pvp and arena...

Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive

[Smashapotamus]

What you are proposing is an impossibility due to Bioware policy and game theory.

 

This is the problem that plagues the games that are "built for every one." These games attempt to be "jacks of all trades," but end up as "masters of none." The very principles that Bioware built this game on are the same principles that make your proposal impossible.

 

The example you described where the Horde locked down an Alliance city for 2 straight days would not be tolerated by Bioware policy. They know a situation like that would generate massive levels of unrest and unhappiness and cancellation threats on behalf of the losing faction, even on PVP servers. Bioware took a stance long ago against hard core PVP that allows one faction to leverage heavily against another, hence why there is no real ganking in this game and you get same faction PVP warzones. Bioware stated in multiple sources that "ganking" and "griefing" will not be tolerated ANYWHERE in this game and is considered a violation of TOS. That stance was generated in an attempt to "appeal to every one," every type of player.

 

A company with that type of approach to PVP will never have a PVP server that allows players to openly grief others by forcing them into PVP they have little chance of winning. Unfortunately without that ability the results you request are impossible. What you're asking for is for Bioware to change the core philosophy that they designed the entire game around...... good luck with that.

 

You're better off ditching these dorks and finding a game that is designed from the ground up featuring a game play model that you are looking for. EA/Bioware just want a cash cow that appeals to the largest market possible, they aren't concerned with producing greatness in any specific aspect of the game, only that the game is broad sweeping in its market appeal.

[BaneOfKings]

I agree. Thrall (now grom) was in the horde's Capitol city! Sitting there! Maybe for a few quests, but mostly he was just there! U could physically click on him! How hard would it be for bioware to put in the leaders (like on korriban) and simply let players come kill them? It's not hard star wars has so much lore... So much potential...

[unicornfive]

I agree. Thrall (now grom) was in the horde's Capitol city! Sitting there! Maybe for a few quests, but mostly he was just there! U could physically click on him! How hard would it be for bioware to put in the leaders (like on korriban) and simply let players come kill them? It's not hard star wars has so much lore... So much potential...

 

Yes, copy wow more....Ppl get bored of wow outdated graphics....We demand wow tranfered here!

[EternalFinality]

Bioware blew it from the very start by both instancing everything in the game and by shoddy zone design which keeps both factions neatly segregated on almost every world.

 

 

• There's no point in invading towns of the other faction and they are far out of the way.
  
• You can't invade their fleet/capital city.
  
• Killing someone simply results in them reviving in stealth exactly where they died.
  
• People access flashpoints and operations straight from the fleet, so you'll never see end game characters running around.
  
• Engine can't handle more than 20 people in the same area at once.
  
• Queue from anywhere warzones keep funneling people out of the main world.
  

 

 

They never designed for world PvP and they can't add it now. Don't expect it to ever show up in TOR in any meaningful way.

[ShadowOfVey]

It would be nice to see more attacks by the opposing faction on republic/empire cities.

 

This would be something to take a nod from WoW in. Sure we don't have "achievements" but we have codex entries that are quite similar. Get a big operation going and destroy some key boss npcs deep in the heart of multiple major areas to get fluff titles, mounts etc.

 

I remember joining a lot of those in WoW since there were always new people coming along or alts that wanted the achievements/mount. Pretty fun I thought.

[BaneOfKings]

Well thanks for sharing, I didn't know bioware had that in place. That really blows. "griefing" and "ganking" are so much of pvp that I used to enjoy. Sure, slaying a lowbie isn't "skillful", but ganking another 50 in a fair fight IS world pvp. Apparently, bioware doesn't understand this.... Now I have to think more.

[Tzou]

all i see is ppl that has no clue what open pvp is.and the sad story is that this ppl creates the game the way they want it.

 

WOW after patch 2 had ZERO open pvp(and dont tell me about wintergrasp that was a joke)

and wow is the worst game u can say for open pvp.

 

DAOC-WH-L2 had tons of open pvp.

 

wow is the worst game ever made for open pvp and pvp balance through classes till recently)

 

u wow lovers will kill all good new games that comes out ,cause u have no clue about pvp.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa
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[BaneOfKings]

I do have a clue, and I do not love wow because clearly I left. Blizzard ITSELF did not create world pvp, because witergrasp IS AN INSTANCE with a player LIMIT. However, in wow I did have many friends, and thus many guilds. All I am saying, is that those guilds had players who wanted to start things, and we went out and hit cities for fun.... That's all I'm sayin is MY friends and I organized our own world pvp IN wow.

[BarradukMordai]

This game's quality of PvP and balance between classes is actually worse than WoW and Rift.

 

At the moment, when you hit 50, you just grind losses against a ton of Battlemaster geared Sorcs or Sages. Then after each loss you get fewer commendations and make less progress toward your dailies because your team can't compete against full BM. The BMs then get higher rewards that they don't need because they're already geared out.

 

I like SWtoR but the PvP and end game are far far worse than any other game out now.

Edited March 20, 2012 by BarradukMordai

[LancelotOC]

In DAOC what they did is give classes low radius powerful Point Blank AE abilities. They also gave us wide radius mezz abilities. They also designed the map with chokepoints where a smaller side could defend with the above abilities against 3+ their numbers.

 

There was of coarse no jumps or pulls so naturally battle lines existed and positioning played a big factor. To get to the healers you had to get through their tanks.

 

The incentive for open world pvp was these three items that once controlled bestows on you realmwide either +20 defence, +20% offence or +20% healing/ranged DPS.. something along those lines as I cant recall exactly. Imagine an open world like huttball where if you captured the enemy ball from their base and transported back to your own base you would get the realmwide bonus.

 

Further having larger control of the open world area over an enemy meant you had access to an exclusive PVE area where some of the best money and gear could be aquired.

 

These mechanics combined created a situation where everyone, pvers and pvpers, would work together to defend and capture enemy relics. Every day people would meet at the base, group up and patrol if they were defending or try to sneak in to enemy territory to steal their relics.

 

Whether you intention was to patrol or sneak around in the enemy territory you always found pvp action as all 3 sides were doing the same. Stealth was also a big part of the game and there would be whole teams of stealthers grouped and waiting to ambush passerbys.

 

Every kill, according to the rank of teh opponents killed, would give each member of your group points. With more points you could buy new abilities. The available abilities and their costs were so many and so high that you could play for years before buying them all.

[unicornfive]

I do have a clue, and I do not love wow because clearly I left. Blizzard ITSELF did not create world pvp, because witergrasp IS AN INSTANCE with a player LIMIT. However, in wow I did have many friends, and thus many guilds. All I am saying, is that those guilds had players who wanted to start things, and we went out and hit cities for fun.... That's all I'm sayin is MY friends and I organized our own world pvp IN wow.

 

Like the person above u said. you have NO CLUE what world pvp is.

You played DAOC?

You played Warhammer?

 

If not, how the hell u talk about world pvp...

I played all 3 and wow had NO world pvp...

Making a group and attacking an enemy city to kill the boss for achievement ISNT world pvp....

Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive

[Tzou]

I do have a clue, and I do not love wow because clearly I left. Blizzard ITSELF did not create world pvp, because witergrasp IS AN INSTANCE with a player LIMIT. However, in wow I did have many friends, and thus many guilds. All I am saying, is that those guilds had players who wanted to start things, and we went out and hit cities for fun.... That's all I'm sayin is MY friends and I organized our own world pvp IN wow.

 

what u miss is that good open pvp has objectives-bonuses-rewards-and its long term issue.

 

this is how good open pvp works.

 

IF a game w8es when some dudes will gather up and make a fight ,well thats surely not open pvp.its a :we are bored and we do silly things...kind of pvp.

 

stop compairing wow with pvp games.wow=a non open pvp game from start to end.

[Sykomyke]

Playing Devils Advocate here again: Instanced PvP does not equate to boring.

 

The best PvP I've ever had the enjoyment of playing was guild matches in Guild Wars. The reason it's so enjoyable is that PvP in Guild Wars is the tactical use of skill and point builds, not just a mass keybashing fest of all your skills as fast as possible.

 

You had to CHOOSE skills and combinations of skills in Guild Wars that complimented not only your playstyle; but also your team. Each person in a match was aware of what their role was; they were aware of what their strengths and weaknesses (usually) were.

 

Instanced PvP can work VERY WELL if done correctly.

[BaneOfKings]

Well then, I yield. What happened to war hammer and da? They died. So my question is, what game has good world pvp? Cause I'd really like to play it ( no sarcasim I'm serious).

[BaneOfKings]

Also, I love swtor, so I hope they can recover.

[Tzou]

Well then, I yield. What happened to war hammer and da? They died. So my question is, what game has good world pvp? Cause I'd really like to play it ( no sarcasim I'm serious).

 

thsoe games died(almost)cause the devs wanted to sell the games and make money.

the newcomers had no clue how open pvp works and then the game died.

 

WH died at his peak when open pvp worked perfectly and tens of servers were full.

 

it still exists like daoc but with same patch notes like 2 years before..and without a proper new patch its doomed to die.

 

this dont mean that wow is beter cause wow has still millions of players.it simple means that BLIZZ knows what to do in PVE to keep ppl paying.

 

and thats all.

 

edit:there is no good open pvp game atm..l2 is grind grind grind and ok it has some good open pvp.but tons of bots and 3rd programms.WH has 2 servers and daoc 1.

 

GW2 will have fun mode open pvp BUT very good designed.

 

if u want to see "some"good open pvp even without achievments and rewards u just have o w8 for gw2 like all of us here.

 

if u want to EXP how open pvp should be u can go and play WH..but i warn u its OLD and it has zero progress last years.it still has the base for open pvp though.

this also counts for DAOC but daoc has terrible graphics cause its a 10 year old game+

Edited March 20, 2012 by Tzou

[unicornfive]

Well then, I yield. What happened to war hammer and da? They died. So my question is, what game has good world pvp? Cause I'd really like to play it ( no sarcasim I'm serious).

 

If blizzard stop making patches for over a year wow will die, it wont?

[BaneOfKings]

Oh I know, and again I'm not going back lol. Trust me. But I just wanna know if any game is out or is coming out that is doing it right. I'm not trying to be a dick and act sarcastic to put wow on a pedestal lol, just the opposite, I wanna know wut else is "good" versus popular lol.

[Tzou]

Oh I know, and again I'm not going back lol. Trust me. But I just wanna know if any game is out or is coming out that is doing it right. I'm not trying to be a dick and act sarcastic to put wow on a pedestal lol, just the opposite, I wanna know wut else is "good" versus popular lol.

 

i edited my last answer.u can read it and deside.

[Bulde]

Originally Posted by BaneOfKings

Well then, I yield. What happened to war hammer and da? They died. So my question is, what game has good world pvp? Cause I'd really like to play it ( no sarcasim I'm serious).

 

Aion had good pvp.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Bulde

[Tzou]

Aion had good pvp.

 

i take that as a joke