operatives and 1.2 (lolpatch)

[Caelrie]

1. Assassins don't have an opener

2. Operatives do frontload burst damage with consistency while assassins do build up burst with high inconsistency

3. Assassins are squishier than operatives

4. Operatives can heal in combat

5. Burst spec for assassins isnt even worth using

6. Operatives damage can't be mitigated while assassins damage can

 

And yes, I'm for removing as many CC's in this game as possible

 

How can anyone possibly think assassins are squishier than operatives? That's so far out there it's like claiming the moon really is made of cheese.

[ShizuXIII]

...

 

You are spot on the target. It doesn't make any sense. Zero sense.

 

I'm coming from 16 years of mmorpgs, starting from 1996 with Diablo 1 and Ultima online.

I've been on all sides of the balance process. The FotM class ,the garbage class, the good (but not too good) class wich always manages to fly below the rader.

 

From any point of view, I've always been a supporter of properly balanced pvp. Every class needs a hard counter. Every class needs an easy target. There's no other way around it in mmorpgs. If you try to balance it around "everyone is good against everyone else" you are bound to **** it up somewhere.

 

 

Here?

Ops/scoundrels, the least played class, are lined up for the THIRD nerf in three balance patches.

And you still have complaints.

Did you see any proper reply to my numbers? No. Just some random idiot rambling about my RL issues. You are SO 90s, scrub.

 

 

That's why I consider BW total, hopeless amateurs.

They have no clue.

They keep listening to people with no clue.

People with no clue keep complaining because the nerf is not bad enough.

 

 

No matter what class you play. If you are a proper pvper interested into a good pvp game with decent balance, this garbage is not for you.

[Astarica]

Seems like a lot of people are still stuck frozen in time back when Operatives are actually overpowered. I really have no idea why you'd even bother coming up with a strategy of a 1v 2 against a healer + Marauder, both who have a high chance of beating you 1on1. Even the most powerful class in SWTOR (which varies depending on who you ask) would have a hard time defeating this combination but apparently one of the weakest class is supposed to be able to pull it off.

[Bocherel]

By the time he cleanses the sleep dart the healer is lower then 40% and if he is wasting a global to cleanse the mara fantastic.

 

I'm also talking about competent players....

 

Even if he doesnt blow his trinket, I would never sleep dart and open on the healer. Because guess what...I bet you he blows his CC breaker while you are pounding his healer...then what are you going to do? Nothing cause you gimped yourself.

 

 

EDIT: anyway it doesn't matter. This 7.5 second cooldown is horse ****

 

He's right on one thing though, assuming they're 100% life when you engage, who in their right mind would cc break the 1.5s knockdown ?

 

But he's also wrong on using dart sleep from the start, it blows your chance away and shut down the element of surprise.

 

I'd rather open on the weaker of the two, burst him and flash the other one, THEN chances are he will cc break that 8sec control and at THIS point he is not full resolve you can vanish + blow dart him and AB/HS the target you were puting down first.

 

Works just fine in most case

Edited March 20, 2012 by Bocherel

[Vaipyr]

Conceal ops are fine. The nerfs were justified, and they're in a perfect place right now.

 

HEALING ops are weak, and need a buff in the form of utility. The 1.2 changes to the healing tree looks pretty nice though. Just need a pulse grenade aoe knockback or something similar and they'll be golden.

 

Lethality ops... lul?

 

(stealth gank classes should NEVER be able to 1v1 someone from 100-0 within a stunlock nor win a 1v1 fight when not starting the fight from stealth and ganking. In any game.)

[astrolite]

By the time he cleanses the sleep dart the healer is lower then 40% and if he is wasting a global to cleanse the mara fantastic.

 

I'm also talking about competent players....

 

Even if he doesnt blow his trinket, I would never sleep dart and open on the healer. Because guess what...I bet you he blows his CC breaker while you are pounding his healer...then what are you going to do? Nothing cause you gimped yourself.

 

 

EDIT: anyway it doesn't matter. This 7.5 second cooldown is horse ****

 

 

Saw this after my last post. You ARE NOT playing competent players if they break your 1.5s knockdown so you can use cloak to sleep dart them. Ridiculous.

[gluefoot]

Well business wise I guess Georg is doing the right thing. Making sure that people don't die by one of those rare dps specced scoundrels/OP's.

 

But I just wished they would man up and say that they made a mistake making a class that is unpopular to play against and just let us all free switch to sniper/gunslinger. Because the way they are handling it now, they will just force the 1% of dps specced scoundrels to reroll just to have fun (because no it's not fun using our basis energy free attack waiting for our main attacks since they got their CD's upped)...

 

*sigh* sorry about the venting, but to me it feels like Bioware is a pre nerf version of an operative, backstabbing us each patch, without us being able to retaliate...

 

Oh, the irony.

[Howbadisbad]

 

(stealth gank classes should NEVER be able to 1v1 someone from 100-0 within a stunlock nor win a 1v1 fight when not starting the fight from stealth and ganking. In any game.)

 

Being reliant on stealth guarantees a weak class in competitive play. Stealth should be a good way to start a fight in your favor, not a requirement to fight.

[Callmeboba]

I have 50 Guardian, 50 tanksin, 50 commando healbot, 50 sentinel Im known as the best guardian on my server DWC. i think i should know a little something about PvP, and when 1.2 comes out ull see me/guild on top of rated charts <jedi academy>.

 

Fine, you have a sentinel, but do you have an operative? The nerfs were pretty heavy.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Callmeboba

[Caeliux]

Now Operatives are useless in 1vs1, they are useless against healers. They are useless against tanks. Picking up unprotected light armored targets and almost dead enemies will by only thing we can do after 1.2.

 

 

Don't you understand a set up class aka a focus class?

 

Bet I can point out what your job is as a dps agent.

 

Classes weak vs tech damage is your bread and butter.

 

Healer is first target, after that pick targets that r weak vs tech damage.

 

1. Sorc.

 

2. Sage

 

3. Shadow

 

4. Assassin

 

5. Agent/Scoundrel

 

Classes like Commando and Merc take team work to take down most of the time. Sometimes you can burn them down, but if healed spec good luck trying to put a dent into a spamming healer, especially if there is more than one.

 

Pyro Tech and Assault specialist r a pain in *** anyways vs all classes, that is a given.

 

Sent/Mar r the biggest threat due to immune bubble move, and burst that is insane. All classes r geting burned down, so get used to that fact.

 

After 1.2 Agent OPs and Scoundrel Concealment are going to be needed in a 8 man premade, matter fact high in demand.

 

Why?

 

Merc/Commando/Agent/Scoundrel do deep tech damage, and that is a ingredient with success killing healers, and burning down weak armor classes. The faster damage and cc gets produced, possibly go up to 905 win ratio.

 

Anything below "Heavy Armor" is weak vs Tech Damage.

 

Why you think you r seeing so much nerfing to agent and merc?

[GrandMike]

Don't you understand a set up class aka a focus class?

 

Bet I can point out what your job is as a dps agent.

 

Classes weak vs tech damage is your bread and butter.

 

Healer is first target, after that pick targets that r weak vs tech damage.

 

1. Sorc.

 

2. Sage

 

3. Shadow

 

4. Assassin

 

5. Agent/Scoundrel

 

Classes like Commando and Merc take team work to take down most of the time. Sometimes you can burn them down, but if healed spec good luck trying to put a dent into a spamming healer, especially if there is more than one.

 

Pyro Tech and Assault specialist r a pain in *** anyways vs all classes, that is a given.

 

Sent/Mar r the biggest threat due to immune bubble move, and burst that is insane. All classes r geting burned down, so get used to that fact.

 

After 1.2 Agent OPs and Scoundrel Concealment are going to be needed in a 8 man premade, matter fact high in demand.

 

Why?

 

Merc/Commando/Agent/Scoundrel do deep tech damage, and that is a ingredient with success killing healers, and burning down weak armor classes. The faster damage and cc gets produced, possibly go up to 905 win ratio.

 

Anything below "Heavy Armor" is weak vs Tech Damage.

 

Why you think you r seeing so much nerfing to agent and merc?

 

This is sooooooo clueless post, you fit right in target auience for changes.

 

tech damage needed to kill healers rofl, yah with that uber defenses and shield sorc have, none of white/internal damage will ever get through rofl

 

And assassins that have one of highest damage reduction on tech damage in their best spec AND skill that makes the immune to tech damage on top of that.

 

Keep up teh good work rofl

Edited March 20, 2012 by GrandMike

[goulet]

the more i hear georg talk about the class the more im concerned.

[Dmasterr]

Don't you understand a set up class aka a focus class?

 

Bet I can point out what your job is as a dps agent.

 

Classes weak vs tech damage is your bread and butter.

 

Healer is first target, after that pick targets that r weak vs tech damage.

 

1. Sorc.

 

2. Sage

 

Both same class, also at the bottom of the pile if not a healer.

 

3. Shadow

 

4. Assassin

 

Wait what? SRSLY? assassins are squishy?

5. Agent/Scoundrel

So you are saying i suck so much i should stick to kill only same class as me? mmk, lemme see if i can find another operative, oh wait there aren't any because nobody is dumb enough to gimp their rated WZ team with one.

 

And "tech" damage isn't some mystical damage... it gets mitigated by armor like most damage.

 

All that aside, your answer is fight "yourself" or the other class at the bottom of the pile (dps sorc), at least they got some group utility.

[goulet]

by the very logic used the nerf the class, i should never play anything else other then what the majority of players play otherwise my payment once a month doesn't hold equal weight.

[zizzefex]

and that is why he is a better player than you. There is a reason he starts on the marauder and it isn't a personal playstyle choice. It just just plain logic that any half decent pvper would understand.

 

CWild isn't better than anyone. If you read his posts (over many threads in many other topics).... he is entirely dependent upon double HS'ing anyone to win. He does not attack guarded healers.... he does not attack high threat high damage targets (he just goes noob hunting).

 

Also he speaks of a 1v2 situation where he actually uses sleep dart.... which will only completely fill someone's resolve bar... and the chances that person has trinket available are very very high. If he had any brains at all he would flash first and then vanish/sleep.... which is still a generally bad idea.

 

Funny thing... the only person worse than him... is you.

[zizzefex]

The good Smugglerrs on my server have 2 piece rakata gear rest BM and can 100-0 anybody with 700 expertise in heavy armor from just the opener -> vanish re-open -> dead. If you dont have access to PvE / dont know how to do this then you missed out on the OPness come 1.2 sry.

 

Do this to a guarded healer. Waste your vanish right away and still barely crack his hp down to halfway.... and then get owned whenever anyone else looks at you.

 

Thank you, bye.

[greywolfff]

Although i do agree that the 1.2 nerf isn't needed I really don't get all the whining about scounds/ops as they are now. Yes we have no utility but I don't see how people can think the damage is low in pvp. I find it to be far better than most classes. The double opener isn't even needed and I dont get why so many people rely on it. Also if you think a scound can't kill someone when they get caught out of stealth, you must just be bad at the class...

[Ich_Bin]

Although i do agree that the 1.2 nerf isn't needed I really don't get all the whining about scounds/ops as they are now. Yes we have no utility but I don't see how people can think the damage is low in pvp. I find it to be far better than most classes. The double opener isn't even needed and I dont get why so many people rely on it. Also if you think a scound can't kill someone when they get caught out of stealth, you must just be bad at the class...

 

The argument is that Scoundrels/Operatives don't do enough damage in relation to their low survivability and lack of utility. And it is a very valid one, if you ask me.

 

I think that most of us would gladly pick better utility over better damage, but it looks like we will be getting worse damage while our lack of utility remains.

[CaptainInsano]

by the very logic used the nerf the class, i should never play anything else other then what the majority of players play otherwise my payment once a month doesn't hold equal weight.

 

Yeah that seems to be the reality of the situation for most MMOs if you care about being competitive. Regardless of the lip service the 'balance devs' give, the popular mainstay classes WILL be powerful enough to compete. At the end of the day it's about the bottom line. WoW had underpowered Druids in Vanilla and now BW has Operatives. These power imbalances usually get flipped around during expansions because the devs like to encourage people to re-roll which equals more time and money spent on subs. I'm sure there's an internal chart at these companies with the figures laid out.

[Sookster]

by the very logic used the nerf the class, i should never play anything else other then what the majority of players play otherwise my payment once a month doesn't hold equal weight.

 

This is becoming very true with this game, nothing but sorc/sage and BH/troopers in warzones these days, last night had a huttball in the under 50 bracket where ALL of us were inquisitors except for 1 merc and vanguard (me), it was one of the dumbest matches I've seen, everyone was force speeding, pulling, overloading and oh of course, lightning spamming. Both teams scored 2 goals each under 2 minutes and it was going back and forth for the following 12 minutes.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Sookster

[Caeliux]

tech damage needed to kill healers rofl, yah with that uber defenses and shield sorc have, none of white/internal damage will ever get through rofl

 

I said "Healer is first target, after that pick targets that r weak vs tech damage."

 

Where does it say in that quote I said Tech Damage is needed to kill a healer?

 

It means healer is always first focus (Of course Healer has to die first), then after that kill targets that r weak vs Tech Damage.

 

Nice Troll attempt.

 

 

And assassins that have one of highest damage reduction on tech damage in their best spec AND skill that makes the immune to tech damage on top of that.

 

Keep up teh good work rofl

 

Agree on the damage reduction part, but tech damage eats a Shadow/Assassin alive.

 

I am a 61 Valor Tank Shadow, and after I have popped

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/dEsVsc4/resilience, there is no relic or any other ability that makes you immune to tech damage.

 

You thinking about this? http://www.torhead.com/ability/d0UsepC/deflection

 

That's only 50%, that's about it.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Caeliux

[Caeliux]

And "tech" damage isn't some mystical damage... it gets mitigated by armor like most damage.

 

Tech Damage is aka "Armor Penetration"

 

All damage reduction classes still get heavily penetrated by Tech Damage. Even the best heals sometimes can't keep up to the damage burst it has.

 

Armor in my opinion does not matter.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Caeliux

[Dmasterr]

Tech Damage is aka "Armor Penetration"

 

All damage reduction classes still get heavily penetrated by Tech Damage. Even the best heals sometimes can't keep up to the damage burst it has.

 

Armor in my opinion does not matter.

 

WoW. just amazing.

 

Tech damage is subject to the same mechanics as energy/kinetic damage. The ONLY damage types that bypass armor is ELEMENTAL and INTERNAL

 

Go attack a sorc , then a tank... and say armor doesn't matter with a straight face.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Ohitei]

NGE = 500K un-sub

 

1.2 = NGE

 

héhé ^^

 

 

See biowater that is your last fail!

 

[Bocherel]

by the very logic used the nerf the class, i should never play anything else other then what the majority of players play otherwise my payment once a month doesn't hold equal weight.

 

That's about it, no need to say more