stephenalandavie Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Am i alone in thinking that bioware takes absolutely no notice of what people are saying?. They have sunk so much money into this game and yet it takes them what seems like forever to make simple changes. I know it can be complicated but for them it shouldnt be too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarmAndSCSI Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 A lot of good changes to gameplay, balancing, warzones, and performance have been made in the 1.2 patch as I've so pleasantly discovered today. Granted there are issues with the specifics of many of these fixes, but that's why the 1.2 patch has a few more weeks of public testing left. I would cool your jets for a little while longer; BioWare is doing pretty decent dev work even if they aren't doing very good PR around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 A lot of good changes to gameplay, balancing, warzones, and performance have been made in the 1.2 patch as I've so pleasantly discovered today. Granted there are issues with the specifics of many of these fixes, but that's why the 1.2 patch has a few more weeks of public testing left. I would cool your jets for a little while longer; BioWare is doing pretty decent dev work even if they aren't doing very good PR around it. There is a lack of content though for the money invested you would think there would be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarmAndSCSI Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 There is a lack of content though for the money invested you would think there would be more. Agreed, but blame it on a hurried push to release to market. It seems there is a lot of content that has been developed at an artist and designer level, but not yet incorporated in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirsri Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Agreed, but blame it on a hurried push to release to market. It seems there is a lot of content that has been developed at an artist and designer level, but not yet incorporated in the game. Not really hurried. The game was more or less unchanged from labour day beta to live in terms of design and core functionality. There was some balance, bug fixing on pathfinding etc. but they never even tried to fix things that were fundamentally poorly thought out(talents, space game, etc. etc. ). Their main factor on release date was when they could get the star wars licence from SOE. They had a creative vision, and wanted that to be what went live. Once it was out there they had time take some time to digest what people were saying, play the game themselves and try and come up with solutions. No matter what testing they would have done, that would have happened. You don't know your actual customers until they're actual customers. Voluntary testers are willing to put up with a lot of things because 'it's testing' they are fans, etc. etc. etc. In the business we call this tissue testing. There isn't really a way around it for an MMO, so you have to expect 1.1 to triage of whatever is really badly broken, and 1.2 to be the pushing systems to whatever will be necessary for the future. There are clearly a lot of things wrong with their process when you look at 1.2. They're trying to glue several unrelated systems in together, all at once. That's how marketers and managers think, not how you should ever actually run a live product. But they'll figure it out, probably the hard way. E.g. UI changes and a new raid zone. Both of which are fine, but forcing them into the same patch is a recipe for confusion and disaster. The combat log *should* be released for the current raid tier, so if they break something with it, they don't break new raid content. Things like that. In general though, listening and doing are not the same thing. BioWare is going to struggle for a while to figure out how to prioritize what people want. 1000 people all asking for a relatively unimportant feature is hard to prioritize v.s. say the show stopping bug on D7 interrogator, v.s. defend the shipment still being bugged v.s. needing to completely rethink ilum. To some degree they can be done in parallel, but they're all separate problems, not everyone on the team will be able to work on all of them and so on. The graphics programmers might be really concerned about AA on textures, but if they also need an ultra low settings option may take priority. I'm pretty sure they're listening, when you look at the changes in 1.2 they're clearly listening to a lot of people and sometimes implementing full solutions and sometimes hacking in something that will hold us over until they can solve something properly. But you can't do everything, and they're clearly a bit out of their element trying to run a live product on this scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 There is a lack of content though for the money invested you would think there would be more. We got a new FP and expanded Ops one month after release. and now we are getting another FP and Ops, and another WZ. In 4 months that's not to shabby for the amount of released content. Combined with the implementation of things people have been asking for, I feel that BW is completely listening to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If by listening to us, you mean the vocal minority that cause massive imbalances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If by listening to us, you mean the vocal minority that cause massive imbalances. It's hard to listen to Non-vocal people, as you know, they don't say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graveside Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 BW needs to pull their heads out of their butts...yes I will speak frankly. You can't have a 2 faction system any more in MMO's, it just doesn't work...proven by (WOW). You need a 3rd faction (doesn't have to be new classes or anything just make it Neutral to both sides causes), this way if you truly want a player driven economy, wars, pvp battles for planets, you will get it. This also stops one side (if over populated) from staying in power always...DAOC had this going for them. Plus, how can you miss some of the things you did...I am really surprised there are Republic players in the game...their animations is like watching paint dry on the walls as someone is kicking you in the go'nads. I just hope 1.2 changes because come April 15, my account is closed...and I highly suggested to anyone new or wont to resub...to wait until you get the verdict back on patch 1.2 this will have a major influx of players or a mass exit to wait for another game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKDeath Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 We got a new FP and expanded Ops one month after release. and now we are getting another FP and Ops, and another WZ. In 4 months that's not to shabby for the amount of released content. Combined with the implementation of things people have been asking for, I feel that BW is completely listening to us. You say FP, I say F2P. The real question we should be asking is are they really this dumb or are they sabotaging this game and their other recent games on purpose? I lean towards the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Am i alone in thinking that bioware takes absolutely no notice of what people are saying?. They have sunk so much money into this game and yet it takes them what seems like forever to make simple changes. I know it can be complicated but for them it shouldnt be too hard. I can point out several points in the 1.2 patch notes where changes are being made because of posts on this forum. Examples are speeders in spaceports, quick travel to planets with orbital stations to name a few off the top of my head! They do listen, they don't always respond immediately. Patience is a virtue many of the players lack, especially the overly vocal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Not notice of what you are saying is not taking no notice at all No dev will reply to ever single thread 24/7, never has never will. Because a statement hasnt been made and hand delivered to you does not mean they are not aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaMayhem Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You say FP, I say F2P. The real question we should be asking is are they really this dumb or are they sabotaging this game and their other recent games on purpose? I lean towards the former. When does your sub end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Am i alone in thinking that bioware takes absolutely no notice of what people are saying?. They have sunk so much money into this game and yet it takes them what seems like forever to make simple changes. I know it can be complicated but for them it shouldnt be too hard. Really. Amazing. - People complained about sorcs being overpowerd. Nerfhammered. - People complained about ops... nerfhammer. - People complained about Bh/Coms nerfhammer.... Basically all of you whined and complained and wanted everything nerfed (except your class.) And you got it. How did they not listen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicari Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Really. Amazing. - People complained about sorcs being overpowerd. Nerfhammered. - People complained about ops... nerfhammer. - People complained about Bh/Coms nerfhammer.... Get it right, the term is NerfBat. Hammers are used for banning, as in Ban Hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You say FP, I say F2P. The real question we should be asking is are they really this dumb or are they sabotaging this game and their other recent games on purpose? I lean towards the former. If you're referencing the story to ME3, the answer to that one is obvious. Drew wasn't lead story writer like he was in 1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 1.2 says they are, stop QQing. This game will be awesome after 1.2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkShizzle Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 1.2 says they are, stop QQing. This game will be awesome after 1.2! not as awesome as the majority of the community thinks its gonna be imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Really. Amazing. - People complained about sorcs being overpowerd. Nerfhammered. - People complained about ops... nerfhammer. - People complained about Bh/Coms nerfhammer.... Basically all of you whined and complained and wanted everything nerfed (except your class.) And you got it. How did they not listen? Perhaps the problem is that they are listening to the wrong people. The healer forum had lots of constructive posts for improving balance. Their response? Ignore it all and nerf the **** out of 2/3 of the healers. Who was complaining? I presume PvPers as I dont visit that forum, but no one was calling for those nerfs on the Healer, Commando, or Operative forums. Keep your *********** PvP out of my PvE game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Perhaps the problem is that they are listening to the wrong people. The healer forum had lots of constructive posts for improving balance. Their response? Ignore it all and nerf the **** out of 2/3 of the healers. Who was complaining? I presume PvPers as I dont visit that forum, but no one was calling for those nerfs on the Healer, Commando, or Operative forums. Keep your *********** PvP out of my PvE game.Too bad the wrong people can't be culled from the right people using the available faceless forum medium. I personally feel the Guild Summit, as well as the weekend warrior program they are putting together, are definitely steps in the right direction to finding the right people to listen to. Edited March 19, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Too bad the wrong people can't be culled from the right people using the available faceless forum medium. I personally feel the Guild Summit, as well as the weekend warrior program they are putting together, are definitely steps in the right direction to finding the right people to listen to. You can do a pretty good job by looking at the quality of the discourse. Rational thought out posts? Probably worth listening to and even a response. Screaming raging nonsense? Send them a troll warning. If you actually moderate the forum and slap people who destroy discourse and reward those who promote it, you'd be amazed what a forum can look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iResist Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Stop feeding the trolls ..... it's obvious to anyone that has followed the forums and 1.2 patch notes that Bioware has and is implementing a ton of changes based on player feedback. Also, no MMO that I know of has had 2 major content updates within 4 months after release, it's unheard of in an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairForceOne Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Often times these changes aren't so simple to make with out risking distrubing the entire game in the process. Minor tweaks can have big problems if they aren't planned out and implemented correctly. It's better to get it right then to risk having it interfere with other aspects of the game. Bioware is a business, a successful one at that. And as such they value us as customers. They're not blindly ignoring our wants. But you need to remember you're not the only person playing this game, and bioware doesn't have unlimited man power and resources. This game hasn't been out long and it has quite a few tweaks that need to be made. their hands are full no doubt. I wouldn't say it's bioware not listening, it's just they need to make choices that affect the majority positively with the time and resources they do have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianoia Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Lack of content =/= easy content. There is TONS of content in the game. Eight unique storylines, two factions with their own stories on every planet, thousands of missions, most all voiced-over, three Warzones, tons of flash points, star fox shooter games, and quite a bit of end-game at launch. The problem is that it's stupid easy to get to 50, and then once you get to 50, that "quite a bit of end-game" translates to a week or two's worth of grinding. With everything awarding XP, XP gains should have been much, much lower. If you chose not to PvP, and not to do the space missions, you should have had to do bonus quests. I have yet to leave a planet and not out level the next by five levels or more. With Operations and hard modes really not being that hard, it's left people with nothing interesting to hold their attention other than alts. And questing the same zones over and over gets boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulself Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Perhaps the problem is that they are listening to the wrong people. The healer forum had lots of constructive posts for improving balance. Their response? Ignore it all and nerf the **** out of 2/3 of the healers. Who was complaining? I presume PvPers as I dont visit that forum, but no one was calling for those nerfs on the Healer, Commando, or Operative forums. Keep your *********** PvP out of my PvE game. From what i have seen playing MMO's PvPer's complaining about abilities are more then likely the reason for every nerf, for example Champions online was fun PvE and everything was blanced well, but PvPers did not like some things and complained until the people making champions online caved to the PvPer's and nerfed stuff so bad that a majority of it's PvE player base left leading to the game dying and going free to play. Moral of the story is: Bioware.. Ignore the PvPer's they only complain cause they got beat by a class there for to them that class is OP and their class is too weak. Or if you are going to listen to them then have changes done to Skills in PvP not effect PvE abilities ( tho i would expect some abilities in PvE to get nerfed if they make the game way to easy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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