Why juggernaut?

[Darth_Sookie]

Sentinels dont have anything like Shii-cho mastery at least i think they dont since i dont have one, so guardians force sweep will still do 20% more damage not to mention we have more hp and heavy armor.

 

Actually they DO have that.

 

Not only to they have that but they received our Juggernaut talent for increased Smash damage. What a joke. They are now every bit as potent in Rage as a juggernaut, plus the insane added utility of "group force speed" and vanish and paladin bubble.

[Shredzz]

Juggs make the best tanks for guarding in the game, same taunts as other 2 tank classes but get intercede as well 20% dmg reduction to the person they jump to for 6secs every 20secs, they make great ball carriers as well with charge push charge combo and have great pvp def cds with a new heal in pvp. Id definitely take a jugg tank for huttball and to protect healers.

[Darth-Rammstein]

Actually they DO have that.

 

Not only to they have that but they received our Juggernaut talent for increased Smash damage. What a joke. They are now every bit as potent in Rage as a juggernaut, plus the insane added utility of "group force speed" and vanish and paladin bubble.

 

This, I'm very disappointed that my juggernauts rage spec is basically going to be a gimped version of the maras rage tree...

[warkat]

If you have to ask the question you are a baddie juggernaught. and ya pulling 700k in voidstar on a juggernaught/guardian is still doable so im not sure where ur seeing baddie dmg.

[Hamatula]

I went Jugg.

 

they are just too useful... so much mitigation and utility for pvp.

 

And I feel there is a lack of decent tanks in pvp.

[Darth_Sookie]

If you have to ask the question you are a baddie juggernaught. and ya pulling 700k in voidstar on a juggernaught/guardian is still doable so im not sure where ur seeing baddie dmg.

 

Nobody said anything about bad damage. What are you talking about?

 

However OP got a point.

 

Pound for Pound a Marauder in Rage spec now totally obliterates a Rage Juggernaut.

 

They will have SHORTER cd on smash and it will hit every bit as hard.

They now have access to short fuse in every spec.

They have raidwide predation buff.

Unduying rage.

Vanish.

Saberward same as juggs but also get Cloak of pain for 20% damage reduction.

Juggs get heavy armor but they get an additional 4% damage reduction from talents.

 

Juggernauts are pretty much forced to stay in Soresu tank stance now to pull their weight.

The verdict is still out on the new Juggernaut heal ability, so if that turns out to be amazing (i doubt it) the extra survivability might just keep juggernauts more "tanky" to make up for marauders better dps.

[GianBaal]

I have no idea how you can read what he typed out and start trashing him for it. All of what he said is straight up truth. I urge anyone who has not played a juggernaut or is on the fence about playing one to read said post because it will describe 90% of your game play experience both leveling and at 50. You might have the good odd match here or there against super under geared people or some lowbies. But in reality the juggernaut is so gimped it makes me sad. All the promises of buffing the survivability of the class...and then 1.2 gets here...nothing. I played this class to enjoy the role of someone powerful and threatening, not to be the weakest class in the game whose only role in pvp is taunt bot and free kill.

 

I don't play a Juggernaut, but I play with some very often, and i have a hard time reaching the same dmg in a wz than thoose do, for the simple reason their aoe is far higher than mine (I'm a pyrotech). In a good voidstar I make 400-500k, but the rage-specced Jugg next to me makes 50k more. Juggernauts are an aoe-machine, and telling that it is pointless is utter crap.

 

Not to mention the amount of medals a Jugg can get. I do alot of single target dps and taunt on cooldown. I get 8-10 medals per match (no.9 and 10 beeing 300k and defender points). The jugg next to me always has 3 more than i do for the simple fact thoose guys have a selfheal that somehow counts for healing.

 

Until 1.2 Pyrotech is a very viable spec for pvp, but a ragejugg easily tops that. I will definately not say everybody can do that, as it seems to be a hard class to play efficiently. But to say it can't do anything is either bull, or the person telling it is a troll. Easy as that.

[Darth_Sookie]

I don't play a Juggernaut, but I play with some very often, and i have a hard time reaching the same dmg in a wz than thoose do, for the simple reason their aoe is far higher than mine (I'm a pyrotech). In a good voidstar I make 400-500k, but the rage-specced Jugg next to me makes 50k more. Juggernauts are an aoe-machine, and telling that it is pointless is utter crap.

 

Not to mention the amount of medals a Jugg can get. I do alot of single target dps and taunt on cooldown. I get 8-10 medals per match (no.9 and 10 beeing 300k and defender points). The jugg next to me always has 3 more than i do for the simple fact thoose guys have a selfheal that somehow counts for healing.

 

Until 1.2 Pyrotech is a very viable spec for pvp, but a ragejugg easily tops that. I will definately not say everybody can do that, as it seems to be a hard class to play efficiently. But to say it can't do anything is either bull, or the person telling it is a troll. Easy as that.

 

The problem is that you and people like you seem to gauge a class worth by how much aoe damage they can do in Voidstar or how many medals they can farm out. Neither of which have any bearing on actual class balance. Medals are an especially poor indicator and means nothing anymore.

[Helig]

Nobody said anything about bad damage. What are you talking about?

 

However OP got a point.

 

Pound for Pound a Marauder in Rage spec now totally obliterates a Rage Juggernaut.

 

They will have SHORTER cd on smash and it will hit every bit as hard.

They now have access to short fuse in every spec.

They have raidwide predation buff.

Unduying rage.

Vanish.

Saberward same as juggs but also get Cloak of pain for 20% damage reduction.

Juggs get heavy armor but they get an additional 4% damage reduction from talents.

 

Juggernauts are pretty much forced to stay in Soresu tank stance now to pull their weight.

The verdict is still out on the new Juggernaut heal ability, so if that turns out to be amazing (i doubt it) the extra survivability might just keep juggernauts more "tanky" to make up for marauders better dps.

 

I concur. No real point to go Rage on Jugg over a Marauder. Since Vigilance\Vengeance is kind of lacking at this point (should at least get Scream crit damage bonus a la Carnage), the only way for a Jugg will be sticking to Soresu and serving as a guard-totem. Which may be somewhat less annoying, in case Enraged Defense procs off Guard "zaps".

[Darth_Sookie]

I concur. No real point to go Rage on Jugg over a Marauder. Since Vigilance\Vengeance is kind of lacking at this point (should at least get Scream crit damage bonus a la Carnage), the only way for a Jugg will be sticking to Soresu and serving as a guard-totem. Which may be somewhat less annoying, in case Enraged Defense procs off Guard "zaps".

 

Yeah,

 

I'm fairly sure enraged defense will proc off of guard ticks which will make it pretty good.

 

It seems Enraged Defence will heal for 3% of total health ever time we take damage over 10 seconds. So if we have enough rage it will be a nice 30% heal.

 

Better than i thought.

[Smashbrother]

no, the juggernaut is fine, its probably your playerskill that needs a buff. and yeah i read what he wrote and i play a juggernaut and its nothing like he describes so you seem to be a troll aswell.

 

Most of the stuff he says is true. I don't agree with the part about us being useless, but he is right that currently sents have far better single target dps and much better survivability. All dps guardians have is saber ward, and that is on a 3 min cd. Enure is average at best.

 

Yes we make great ball carriers in huttball, but tank shadows are better due to their sprint and 100% immunity to tech/force which essentially makes them cc immune. Yes we have taunt, but sents have transcendence and group buffs. I'm not counting guard because the topic is about dps.

 

After 1.2, maras get access to the +damage on sweep talent, so they're focus tree will be better than ours. They also haven't lost any of their survivability either.

 

Yes we get focused defense, but it's ******. 30% heal over 10 sec which costs 4 focus to use and 1 focus each heal is crap. 5k hp over 10 sec isn't going to help with the issue of us getting focused fired and dropping like a 2 dollar ******.

[Smashbrother]

Yeah,

 

I'm fairly sure enraged defense will proc off of guard ticks which will make it pretty good.

 

It seems Enraged Defence will heal for 3% of total health ever time we take damage over 10 seconds. So if we have enough rage it will be a nice 30% heal.

 

Better than i thought.

 

You really think a 5k heal over 10 sec is going to help us when being focus fired? We have enure which is a much better version of focused defense (30% instant heal and costs nothing). I'm sure you've popped it when you're getting focus fired, how much longer does that help you live?

 

For me, it's at best a few seconds.

[GianBaal]

The problem is that you and people like you seem to gauge a class worth by how much aoe damage they can do in Voidstar or how many medals they can farm out. Neither of which have any bearing on actual class balance. Medals are an especially poor indicator and means nothing anymore.

 

Then how do you "class balance" a dps class other than in sucess doing dps? Sure medals are not the best way to determine that, but fullfilling your intended role should do the trick actually...

[Varicite]

Yes we get focused defense, but it's ******. 30% heal over 10 sec which costs 4 focus to use and 1 focus each heal is crap. 5k hp over 10 sec isn't going to help with the issue of us getting focused fired and dropping like a 2 dollar ******.

 

My Pyro PT is seriously jealous of Enraged Defense.

 

My 15% HoT over 9 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown says hello.

[Ichijin]

I have no idea what all the belly-aching is about both classes are fine (when compare to each other).

 

Just look at it logically. If both ACs had the same dps and the same survivability wouldn't that make the class with more roles much more desirable? As it is right now it's just a matter of play-style preference. If they were made equal dps and survivability wise Sentinel/Marauders would be broken.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Ichijin

[Varicite]

I have no idea what all the belly-aching is about both classes are fine (when compare to each other).

 

Just look at it logically. If both ACs had the same dps and the same survivability wouldn't that make the class with more roles much more desirable? As it is right now it's just a matter of play-style preference. If they were made equal dps and survivability wise Sentinel/Marauders would be broken.

 

I think people are more upset that the Mara version has FAR more survivability than the Juggernaut version.

 

At least, the Jug version used to hit harder to compensate. Now it's just inferior. It's still not bad for Jugs (it's the best they have still), but I can understand being upset that your only good dps tree just lost its flavor.

[Helig]

You really think a 5k heal over 10 sec is going to help us when being focus fired? We have enure which is a much better version of focused defense (30% instant heal and costs nothing). I'm sure you've popped it when you're getting focus fired, how much longer does that help you live?

 

For me, it's at best a few seconds.

 

I'd rather have Undying Rage, or 50% damage reduction on 45 secs baseline (I get 40% one on 3 mins in my tank tree, lol), but hey - it's better than nothing. Pop it at 70-ish%HP, soften up incoming damage via cooldowns, if it gets bad, there's always Enure+Guardian Leap.

 

Also, I'd rather have Enure act like an actual heal, not extra HP which is lost when the effect ends. Instead of Focused Defense, that is.

[Steele_dk]

1/10 on your attempt to make it look like I was trolling.

 

Those are all abilities I have and use and love in PvP on my Jug. Really, they do have those, and this thread was about convincing the original poster why Jug is good in PvP. Get off your high horse and stop thinking everything is all about you.

 

This. Fellow jugger supporting in.

 

My favorite thing to do is after the doors are blown in voidstar i just spam my free aoe snare in the passage ways slowing their entire team down while my team moves on to next section That and jumping into a fight and actively guard someone, taunt all of their incoming dmg off them=teammate saved

[unicornfive]

Every rated WZ team will need a guardian / jugg, period. You will not be as good in huttball w/out one.

 

TO do what? Charge on ball carrier and make them immune to CC ith their lame 2 sec stun in charge?

 

Dare to charge on ball carrier as jugg after 1.2 and after he easily score, i would like to listen the nerdrage on vent by ur team + kick

[tekhiun]

You can shout FUS RO DAH ! when you use force push

 

/thread

[unicornfive]

This. Fellow jugger supporting in.

 

My favorite thing to do is after the doors are blown in voidstar i just spam my free aoe snare in the passage ways slowing their entire team down while my team moves on to next section That and jumping into a fight and actively guard someone, taunt all of their incoming dmg off them=teammate saved

 

And while u spam your aoe slow u annoy 1 merc, he clicks u and starts clicking his tracer missile, ending up with u dead after 4-5 sec max... GJ usefull juggernaut tank..

While u could have been smart...reroll a powertech tank and burn everyone within secs While barely ever dying in wz...Or play assassin tank and keep saping , dot and vanish vs ppl at door, preventing them planting bomb practically forever.....

 

Gotta love ppl that played 1 class in their SWTOR life and claiming that this class is the most OP in game for them...without even having a clue what skills other classes have...

 

Like 1 jugg posted earlier... JUGG IS FINE!!! THEY HAVE INSANE AOE!!! BLA BLA BLA....without having a clue that Mara is having COMMON SPEC and after 1.2 they TAKE JUGG'S VENGEANCE TALENT and put it in mara to make smash dmg same.....

[Hellrazer]

They dont even have cc, lol (And with 1.2 fail stun in charge, not only they wont have enough cc, but 2 juggs charge on same target, will make that target IMMUNE to EVERY other classes CC since it will fill their resolve....

 

And if u say jugg is tank class :

1st) why the hell it has 2 DPS specs and only 1 tank spec?

2nd) If u wanna play tank class, why the hell roll jugg/guardian and not Vanguard/Powertech?!?!?!?

 

You are wrong my friend, Back hand, Force Crush, and a few other moves my Sith Juggernaut has that I can use that are CC

[Cempa]

After 1.2 what will Vengeance be like? PvP wise. I'm not a fan of tank spec or Rage.

[Pcolapat]

Let me get this strait. You don't like juggs?

[Jederix]

Any that has some clue of this game plz reply? And not valor rank 10 ppl plz...

 

Translation: Agree with me or you suck.

 

Yeah, we get it. Why even post this if you only want people to agree (which they don't). You could have had this conversation with yourself at home and it would have gotten the same result, without the dissenting opinions of course.