rage v anni v carnage pvp 1.2

[jbuschell]

So I fear that I'm just going to see a bunch of rage maras in wz now, but what do you guys think, I might give carnage a go when 1.2 hits, I never really played it but I'm going to try it out, if I don't like it ill stick with anni, ill never go rage Edited March 17, 2012 by jbuschell

[Nergalus]

yep im thinking the same. I leveled up as carnage and been annihilation since i dinged 50. i liked the play style of carnage but anni had more tools i liked mainly for pvp. Thats gonna change now and im going carnage since the utility of predation shifted over there. Rage i probably wont touch after patch until dual spec comes along. Edited March 17, 2012 by Nergalus

[Omophorus]

I think you'll still see all 3, but a much more even balance.

 

Annihilation will still be a very solid spec. Slightly less durable with the loss of 100% mitigation on cloak, but still solid damage.

 

I rarely see anyone but baddies playing Carnage spec, mainly because the good Marauders who enjoyed the spec realized that they could be more effective with the pre-1.2 game balance by switching to Annihilation. I think 1.2 will change this. It'll still be constrained by uptime, but should be much stronger than it was.

 

Rage will be very useful as well, especially with buffing Smash bombs. The build is still heavily reliant on landing Smashes, so its effectiveness will be mitigated some by coordinated teams. It'll be easy to rack up big damage in disorganized pug games, but require more teamwork to be effective if the other team is organized.

 

I've seen a few people crying about falling skies and teams full of Rage-spec Marauders smash-bombing entire teams, but that many people shouldn't be standing so close together in the first place.

[gibmachine]

For me it will propably depend on the RWZ comp I'll be running. Personally, I'll go either anni for shutting down enemy healers or rage for sheer damage. Rage looks insanely good on paper right now but I don't see carnage overshadowing anni in terms of pure solo capabilities.

 

However for pve it'll be carnage all day baby.

Edited March 17, 2012 by gibmachine

[jbuschell]

I've never dabbled with carnage, I know it revolves around gore, ravage and force scream procs but im sure its not that simple

[Xerain]

I've never dabbled with carnage, I know it revolves around gore, ravage and force scream procs but im sure its not that simple

 

it is that simple... that's the sad thing.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd still much rather play annihilation and shut down a healer. There's enough people out there that want to straight LOLDMGURFASE...

 

 

I do like the short fuse change and how it's opened up carnage to be much more competitive now. Always felt lacking in the Fury department there.

[Lxkane]

Depends what defense is like after the patch goes live.

 

Rage and carnage do kinetic dmg which everyone has resistance against. Anni does internal dmg which currently almost no one has resistance against making it easier to kill people.

 

So unless that changes anni may still be the best.

[Ethudor]

Ferocity should just take the place of enrage charge meaning 2nd tier meaning still accessible

[atreyuz]

Carnage didnt receive enough to give it an edge over the other 2 specs(especially since Rage was decently buffed).

 

Mara population in 1.2:

Same great numbers of Annihilators, and a greater number of Ragers than now.

Edited March 17, 2012 by atreyuz

[Ridisi]

Carnage didnt receive enough to give it an edge over the other 2 specs(especially since Rage was decently buffed).

 

Mara population in 1.2:

Same great numbers of Annihilators, and a greater number of Ragers than now.

 

You're VERY VERY confused on what made Carnage worse than the other 2 specs. The tools that made the other specs stronger were now GIVEN to Carnage. Carnage in an of itself IS a good spec, especially in group play.

 

Roots are the most powerful CC in the game, and Carnage gets three of them.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Ridisi

[atreyuz]

You're VERY VERY confused on what made Carnage worse than the other 2 specs. The tools that made the other specs stronger were now GIVEN to Carnage. Carnage in an of itself IS a good spec, especially in group play.

 

Roots are the most powerful CC in the game, and Carnage gets three of them.

 

Please tell me about these "tools" that are given to carnage in 1.2...

 

Yeah, even carnage mara will be able to keep up Predation thanks to short fuse being a tier 1 talent, still it will be used by every other spec. So it is not just a carnage specialty.

 

Roots didnt change, now on live they are the same. Do you see many carnage maras around?

 

Do you think being able to keep up Predation will grant the spec more people? Well, probably yes. I can see carnage being quite good at HUTTBALL ranked.

 

Still Annihilation looks better to me if we take count of every PvP aspect.

Edited March 17, 2012 by atreyuz

[Anbokr]

I think you'll see mostly rage marauders, a few carnage, and very little annihilation. Annihilation will get annihilated by dispelling, while Carnage could be useful for destroying tanks and rage will be nice for messing with healers.

[Krytycal]

Please tell me about these "tools" that are given to carnage in 1.2...

 

Yeah, even carnage mara will be able to keep up Predation thanks to short fuse being a tier 1 talent, still it will be used by every other spec. So it is not just a carnage specialty.

 

Roots didnt change, now on live they are the same. Do you see many carnage maras around?

 

Do you think being able to keep up Predation will grant the spec more people? Well, probably yes. I can see carnage being quite good at HUTTBALL ranked.

 

Still Annihilation looks better to me if we take count of every PvP aspect.

 

Caranage will get the 30% extra movement on Predation.

 

Ravage can no longer be interrupted (that plus root makes Ravage a LOT more reliable).

 

You will be able to increase the damage of Ravage by dropping two points in Rage.

 

Increased duration on Force Charge root.

 

Able to pick Short Fuse for increased Predation uptime.

[FINALBOSS]

I'll be sticking with Anni.

[Xerain]

Please tell me about these "tools" that are given to carnage in 1.2...

 

Yeah, even carnage mara will be able to keep up Predation thanks to short fuse being a tier 1 talent, still it will be used by every other spec. So it is not just a carnage specialty.

 

Roots didnt change, now on live they are the same. Do you see many carnage maras around?

 

Do you think being able to keep up Predation will grant the spec more people? Well, probably yes. I can see carnage being quite good at HUTTBALL ranked.

 

Still Annihilation looks better to me if we take count of every PvP aspect.

 

carnage has much better on demand burst. having better fury generation is going to be amazing for the spec in both pvp and pve.

[Yescek]

Like I said in another thread, mixed feelings on my part.

 

The Ataru DAMAGE change is, by all current PTS indications, actually a slight nerf. Until you factor in Gore, in which case it's a slight buff. The only thing this will do is drag the ****-short duration of Gore painfully into the limelight. Vote yes on making Gore last 9 seconds!

 

As for the rest of it, I have no idea how the cooldown changes (at least for me) are going to work for Ravage and Choke. Choke ticks CAN and DO proc Ataru, so I actually use it as more than just an interrupt. I'll generally use it on the second or third thing I attack, or in the process of locking someone down while they try to run away by chaining Deadly Throw with it then leading into my main rotation if it's up. I like the Short Fuse change, it will open up the Fury-Abilities to be used with much more variety. So now, again for me, I'll be able to throw in MORE Berserk-Massacre combos. The Camo change, I like. It means that now, LITERALLY, there's NO excuse for getting caught-and-locked given the even more massive speed advantage I'll have. I'm already a pain in the *** to catch as it stands.

 

Eh, really at the end of the day idk. I'll have to play around with it before I can really rate my opinion of the Carnage changes.

[Xerain]

Vote yes on making Gore last 9 seconds!

 

Why does gore need to last 9 seconds?! It's fine as the 6 seconds it's at.

[Vetril]

Like I said in another thread, mixed feelings on my part.

 

The Ataru DAMAGE change is, by all current PTS indications, actually a slight nerf. Until you factor in Gore, in which case it's a slight buff. The only thing this will do is drag the ****-short duration of Gore painfully into the limelight. Vote yes on making Gore last 9 seconds

 

You don't know how the damage will scale exactly. You have no way to tell if it will be better or worser than now.

[Viscerus]

I think you'll still see all 3, but a much more even balance.

 

Annihilation will still be a very solid spec. Slightly less durable with the loss of 100% mitigation on cloak, but still solid damage.

 

I rarely see anyone but baddies playing Carnage spec, mainly because the good Marauders who enjoyed the spec realized that they could be more effective with the pre-1.2 game balance by switching to Annihilation. I think 1.2 will change this. It'll still be constrained by uptime, but should be much stronger than it was.

 

Rage will be very useful as well, especially with buffing Smash bombs. The build is still heavily reliant on landing Smashes, so its effectiveness will be mitigated some by coordinated teams. It'll be easy to rack up big damage in disorganized pug games, but require more teamwork to be effective if the other team is organized.

 

I've seen a few people crying about falling skies and teams full of Rage-spec Marauders smash-bombing entire teams, but that many people shouldn't be standing so close together in the first place.

 

This is wrong. I play carnage and I duel anni specced marauders and wipe the floor with them all the time. It is all about how you play carnage. The ability chaining is a lot different than with annihilation.

[lolcthulhu]

This is wrong. I play carnage and I duel anni specced marauders and wipe the floor with them all the time. It is all about how you play carnage. The ability chaining is a lot different than with annihilation.

 

What do you do if the marauder force cloaks your gore? Ragequit? Carnage isnt viable right now.. its got good burst when gores up and sucks when its down. That's common knowledge for the most part lol i'd like to see some of these duels. Maybe record yourself beating a BM anni marauder and post it ^^

[Viscerus]

What do you do if the marauder force cloaks your gore? Ragequit? Carnage isnt viable right now.. its got good burst when gores up and sucks when its down. That's common knowledge for the most part lol i'd like to see some of these duels. Maybe record yourself beating a BM anni marauder and post it ^^

 

I'll do that. it is good damage even when gore is not up. If someone force cloaks you just deal with it. root them with deadly throw and back off until just enough until it wears off. or force choke. might not do damage but itll hold em up until you can sue something that does decent damage. Carnage is totally viable. You don't know what you are talking about.

[Crunchyblack]

Ok my understanding and experience was that carnage was never a *bad* pvp spec in terms of damage, it was that the tree lacked any survivability.

 

I understand its getting more roots, which is good, but doesnt aid survivability (unless you plan to root then force charge to another guy possibly)

 

Anni loses the camo buff but still keeps its all important heals on bleed crits which make it a solid pvp build, on top of its anni skill giving much needed burst to an otherwise slow killing tree

 

Rage is going to be rage only will cause more QQ due to bigger smash ? Did i get that right? They buffed the least skilled and least fun tree to increase the smash bombs?

 

Im still going anni...not a fan of rage tree pvp anymore, just dont like the stack then bomb mechanics

 

Unless of course they give carni either enought dps to overcome its shortcommings in survivability or they give it some form of survivability. Im not seeing either as a case. I think carni was the most entertaining....and im hearing that predation will have a bonus in carni....why...you spam zerker in carni so you get additional massacre spam. I wouldnt dream of hitting anything other than zerker in carnage...another reason i like anni is i can safely click predatation for team advantages aside from needing heals on they fly (in which case ill go zerker for the heals)

[kainsec]

Ok my understanding and experience was that carnage was never a *bad* pvp spec in terms of damage, it was that the tree lacked any survivability.

 

I understand its getting more roots, which is good, but doesnt aid survivability (unless you plan to root then force charge to another guy possibly)

 

Anni loses the camo buff but still keeps its all important heals on bleed crits which make it a solid pvp build, on top of its anni skill giving much needed burst to an otherwise slow killing tree

 

Rage is going to be rage only will cause more QQ due to bigger smash ? Did i get that right? They buffed the least skilled and least fun tree to increase the smash bombs?

 

Im still going anni...not a fan of rage tree pvp anymore, just dont like the stack then bomb mechanics

 

Unless of course they give carni either enought dps to overcome its shortcommings in survivability or they give it some form of survivability. Im not seeing either as a case. I think carni was the most entertaining....and im hearing that predation will have a bonus in carni....why...you spam zerker in carni so you get additional massacre spam. I wouldnt dream of hitting anything other than zerker in carnage...another reason i like anni is i can safely click predatation for team advantages aside from needing heals on they fly (in which case ill go zerker for the heals)

 

Not quite on the rage and carnage side

 

Things that help Carnage

 

Carnage supposedly gets a damage buff to ataru (testing pending on this one)

 

Ravage is now uninteruptable base tied with the carnage talent it is both a root and uninteruptable making it unstopabble if you are at full resolve

 

Ravage now has a talent that buffs it's damage

 

Force camo now reduces 50% damage across all specs and anni loses the damage reduction on phantom

 

The useless erupting fury is replaced by a talent that makes charge root

 

short fuse has been moved to T1 of anni making it awesome for all specs this was one of the best reasons to be anni

 

Predation now affects all ppl in an op and ferocity's speed buff to pred is moved to unbound in the carnage tree

 

Things that help rage

 

Berserk will give full stacks of shockwave

 

we get juggs decimate

 

Short fuse

 

We get an ability that if we crit on vslash we have a chance to get 2 rage back combined with the 1 refunded from anni tree this has the potential to give us free fury sometimes

 

obliterate is now a 1 sec root as well

 

With short fuse and berserk it should be possible to hit 2 smashes of doom in the same blood thirst window (build bt up naturally, smash, wait for cd, pop frenzy, pop zerk and smash again).

 

 

 

Now these things may or may not change your mind but I can say they are enough to make me hit some dummies and parse come live.

[atreyuz]

This is wrong. I play carnage and I duel anni specced marauders and wipe the floor with them all the time. It is all about how you play carnage. The ability chaining is a lot different than with annihilation.

 

http://i.qkme.me/4f9h.jpg

Edited March 18, 2012 by atreyuz

[lolcthulhu]

I'll do that. it is good damage even when gore is not up. If someone force cloaks you just deal with it. root them with deadly throw and back off until just enough until it wears off. or force choke. might not do damage but itll hold em up until you can sue something that does decent damage. Carnage is totally viable. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

I try to keep myself from making ignorant comments, so yeah i've played carnage and i know what im talking about. I did make a mistake however, i meant force camo when i said force cloak, so you rooting them while your burst is up isnt possible, they would simply waste your 6 seconds of not sucking. Say you use it again, then you get obfuscated.. wasted again. If you're wiping the floor with these people they're obviously bad.