Pyro Railshot ever 6 Seconds!??!?!

[Jaigen]

So you basically don't "know" anything. Arsenal has its heat venting built into its abilities via heat reductions.

 

AP is always venting every 6 seconds, whether engaged in combat or traveling between opponents, etc. The mechanic is superior in practice to Pyro's, even though Pyro has free RNG Rail Shots. I can tell you haven't played both specs, as this becomes pretty apparent after a while.

 

So no, a ~9 second venting mechanic isn't as good as Merc's 9 heat vented (not used) every 1.5 seconds via Muzzle Fluting, or a guaranteed 8 heat vented every 6 seconds.

 

I'll concede that Arsenal's heat mechanic is a lot less "fun" than PT versions, but it seems to be in line w/ the Merc healing tree's mechanic of reduced heat costs.

 

Are you implying you not using muzzle fluting as a pyro spec? and as i said before PPA proc is a 15.5 heat reduction not 8.

[Xneco]

Really wish I could of transferred my 50 to the PTS... on paper it does look like 6sec internal cooldown is to long if they are going to keep the RNG proc. It would seem that the proc rate needs to be 100% or reduce internal cooldown. Edited March 20, 2012 by Xneco

[Sevvy]

Really wish I could of transferred my 50 to the PTS... on paper it does look like 6sec internal cooldown is to long if they are going to keep the RNG proc. It would seem that the proc rate needs to be 100% or reduce internal cooldown.

 

They need to remove the ICD, remove the RNG, and just make PPA reduce the CD of Rail Shot. 6 seconds is way too long, unless you have a guaranteed way to proc it. Because we're still going to see times where we'll have to wait out the full 15s CD of Rail Shot, without the possibility of tempering that with back to back procs. That's part of the problem now.

 

Whatever, I'm going Iron Fist. Empire never has enough tanks. And that build is going to be about as bursty as a neutered Pyro now. /shrug

[Gnugthreeonefive]

Conclusion: Not only was our "fun" RNG factor nerfed, BUT also our overall dps. Our heat vent average timer got increased by 100%, our MAIN damage dealer now has an average of 9 sec cooldown. We are looking as a dps class about a 30% nerf to our overall DPS. By all means the Greatest Nerf up to date!

 

1. Your numbers are pure speculation.
   
2. We need an overall nerf. I'm a bit tired of facerolling #1 dps literally 95%+ of the time (not meant as a hidden brag -- the other top BH's on my server also bring in the numbaz).
   

[Assaultrooper]

1. Your numbers are pure speculation.
   
2. We need an overall nerf. I'm a bit tired of facerolling #1 dps literally 95%+ of the time (not meant as a hidden brag -- the other top BH's on my server also bring in the numbaz).
   

 

Yes they are pure speculation but a damn right approximate! (You can check my track record on my estimates in this thread.)

 

On another note: You my friend are not facerolling #1 your just playing ur class in a un-ranked Pug enviroment, were you will most of the time have a 100% up time.

 

I have seen Jugg rage spec numbers much higher than what any Pyro PT has achieved and yet you are not crying for them to be nerfed. PvP scoredboards as bad as a tool for measuring a class's effectiveness as GDP is to measuring the health of a country's economy...

Edited March 20, 2012 by Assaultrooper

[Agooz]

Pure RNG is bad design. This removed much of the RNG. Good fix.

 

The beauty of this tree was the random and fun factor of the RNG. I would have much prefered they nerfed our dps by a flat percentage but still kept the same proc mechanism with no timer.

[Assaultrooper]

The beauty of this tree was the random and fun factor of the RNG. I would have much prefered they nerfed our dps by a flat percentage but still kept the same proc mechanism with no timer.

 

^ truth made me almost cry when I fully comprehended the extend of the nerfs...

[Agooz]

1. Your numbers are pure speculation.
   
2. We need an overall nerf. I'm a bit tired of facerolling #1 dps literally 95%+ of the time (not meant as a hidden brag -- the other top BH's on my server also bring in the numbaz).
   

 

Because we all know getting highest damage in a WZ automatically means your side has won. Because immunity bubbles, speedboosts, stealth, rescue/extrication, healing, tank/defend/guard dont win WZs, it's all about damage.

Because we all know the high damage PTs get on the scorecard is single target damage, not throwing Death from Above and other AOE to inflate our final damage score.

 

Did we need a nerf, sure, mainly pertaining to the back to back RS crits. The way they went about it though was completely off the wall.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Agooz

[Vanash]

On a side note to this, is it now better to switch to combat tech gear?

 

The crit on RS set bonus will obviously diminish in value due to the lower amount of procs so a bit of extra duration on carbonize might be worth the sacrifice?

 

Or with the change for marauders/sents to be more weapon dmg based does the supercommando gear become a bit more viable for an Iron fist/ healer babysitter type build?

[exphryl]

On a side note to this, is it now better to switch to combat tech gear?

 

The crit on RS set bonus will obviously diminish in value due to the lower amount of procs so a bit of extra duration on carbonize might be worth the sacrifice?

 

Or with the change for marauders/sents to be more weapon dmg based does the supercommando gear become a bit more viable for an Iron fist/ healer babysitter type build?

 

I still feel eliminator will be a better overall PvP Set bonus.

 

As a fun note, the few times I want longer carbonize I pick up 2 piece combat medic also for longer energy shield

[Theology]

I'm not giving up on pyro, I believe the devs will see the error in their ways when it comes to this proc and adjust it to where it should be, which is 3 seconds.

[Jerid]

Are you implying you not using muzzle fluting as a pyro spec? and as i said before PPA proc is a 15.5 heat reduction not 8.

 

How would Muzzle Fluting be possible for a Pyro Speced Power Tech when it's a Mercenary Arsenal tree talent?

[brypoint]

Gah this is a sick nerf. I'm a WH and play against mostly BM and above. The frequency of back to back railshots is about once a game or so. Never mind trying to get threw the constant shields, guards and whatever else that lowers damage. I never rely on double RS procs to kill someone, if it happens great but it's too inconsistent to rely on. I can agree it procs a boat load in PVE (really don't know why maybe expertise dictates this) but it just dosent happen as much as people seem to think in PVP. Now players are figuring out how to cleanse are IM more too which causes me too have to apply it twice or more if i'm out of range and that adds sick amounts of heat just so I can get a RS off.

 

So I think anything that is gonna gimp our heat venting even more then it is now is just crazy and will render Pyro useless as a viable PVP spec. Why o why do we need heat venting conected to PPA/RS any damn ways. For this to work at all they need to add another heat vent to the tree somewhere. Maybe adjust rapid venting to 30secs with a 3point talent? Then maybe we can be viable again.

[Jaigen]

How would Muzzle Fluting be possible for a Pyro Speced Power Tech when it's a Mercenary Arsenal tree talent?

 

We where not discussing powertechs.

[Varicite]

We where not discussing powertechs.

 

We were discussing Powertechs. Maybe you should recheck the forum you're in.

 

Which is why I didn't bother replying to your silly comment, btw. Has nothing to do w/ anything.

[treehugginsanta]

PPA needs to be a little lower Edited March 21, 2012 by treehugginsanta

[Jaigen]

We were discussing Powertechs. Maybe you should recheck the forum you're in.

 

Which is why I didn't bother replying to your silly comment, btw. Has nothing to do w/ anything.

 

Your the one who brought muzzle fluting into this not i. and since PPA is both a merc and PT talent i say this has nothing to do with PT's.

 

Also PPA is now balanced l2p

[Theology]

Your the one who brought muzzle fluting into this not i. and since PPA is both a merc and PT talent i say this has nothing to do with PT's.

 

Also PPA is now balanced l2p

 

Actually, it's not. If you go read this thread, you'll see why.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=370674

 

Thanks, bye now.

[Agenteusa]

Like I said in another thread I don´t mind the RS nerf since it was doing too much dmg. Now what I´m against and this probs was already said several times is the changes to heat management and the fact it´s going to change the entire concept of the class.

 

I play a Pyro PT because I like the experience it provides, it keeps me in my toes everytime, will I be able to kill or overheat and have to run away.

 

BW might just remove the concept of burst dps cause they are almost removing it from the game with the additional nerfs to Concealment Agents.

 

I don´t like playing a class that has steady rotations and they are vulgarizing every class to have a standard rotation so heck they might just put a 7 sec CD on every dps advanced class and we´ll stop being snowflakes and playing every class will be the absolute same.

 

They want to nerf RS? Fine with me just take 10, 20, 30 % whatever you think its needed to balance it but don´t kill teh mechanic of the class cause thats what about to happen.

[Varicite]

Your the one who brought muzzle fluting into this not i. and since PPA is both a merc and PT talent i say this has nothing to do with PT's.

 

Also PPA is now balanced l2p

 

Actually, this would be you bringing Merc specs into this discussion, while we were very clearly talking about PT.

 

 

In short, you don't play a Pyro PT as all of your comments are just flat wrong about the spec, so please kindly leave this topic to people who actually know what they're saying.

 

Yeah whatever but at least i know that even with this nerf heat vent for pyro's is still superior to arsenal and AP. Its simply called math , you whiners all fail at that. I also know that PPA reduces heat by 15.5 ( who has poor class knowledge?). So yes you are whiny nuggets.

And saying to me that i dont understand the class is funny as hell

 

I humored you by talking about your own AC, which you seemed hell-bent on talking about.

 

Now go away.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Varicite

[Rabbitfoot]

I wonder where the random number 6 sec came from. - "Yea I guess this is a decent estimate."

[Theology]

I wonder where the random number 6 sec came from. - "Yea I guess this is a decent estimate."

 

My guess is they looked at the other 2 trees and said 'oh, hey, their procs are on 6s, so we'll make PPA 6s too.' But they forgot that we have to go through 2 GCDs to make ours proc. We also have to use heat to even expend heat.

 

 

COOL MECHANIC BIOWAIR!

Edited March 24, 2012 by Theology

[nDjiin]

Well I am gonna try it for myself and if it is as I think it is, I will be quitting. I have had enough of this - its like they dont want this game to succeed (do they have money riding on it failing??!!)

 

AT the moment in wz the other dps melee classes are a very close match when fighting a PT. They are not getting nerfs (in fact quite the opposite). The Pyrotech is a glass cannon and its only real use is its ability to do enough damage to the enemy before they can close then stun / interrupt/ attack and repeat. Take this away and it will be as useful as the AP tree.

 

I am downloading my next game as I write this - open beta this weekend. The pvp is supposed to be awesome. Thankfully someone knows how to make an mmo these days.

[SneakyErvin]

People here seem very narrow mineded about the vent heat thing tied to the skill.

 

Yes as it will be you will vent 8 heat each 7.5 secs with this skill. But railshot is also free to cast. Thats another 16 heat saved each 7.5 seconds, thats 24 heat each 7.5 seconds not getting used.

 

Look at arsenal specced mercs. They need to rely on their crits for heat venting, their chance to vent heat is completely based on their crit %. To achieve those 24 heat they need a minimum of 10.5 seconds.

 

1.5 Attack (crit 8 heat), 3 sec internal cd, 1.5 sec attack (crit 8 heat), 3 sec internal cd, 1.5 attack (crit 8 heat).

 

This is the fastest they can vent heat, if it all crits when its supposed to. If they are unlucky they crit during the 2 attacks that occur during the ICD, prolonging the period between vents even more.

 

PTAP specs will need 18 seconds to vent 24 heat.

 

PTST also needs 18 seconds to vent 24, but it requires him to actually shield attacks, which is a useless thing in PvP to have to rely on.

 

Pyrotech will still have the best heat venting/management. Because in the 22.5 second window you will vent 24 heat and have 48 heat unspent on railshot. Thats 72 heat in 22.5 seconds, how long does it take for other specs to vent something equal or even close to 72 heat?

Edited March 24, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[Srolo]

People here seem very narrow mineded about the vent heat thing tied to the skill.

 

Yes as it will be you will vent 8 heat each 7.5 secs with this skill. But railshot is also free to cast. Thats another 16 heat saved each 7.5 seconds, thats 24 heat each 7.5 seconds not getting used.

 

Look at arsenal specced mercs. They need to rely on their crits for heat venting, their chance to vent heat is completely based on their crit %. To achieve those 24 heat they need a minimum of 10.5 seconds.

 

1.5 Attack (crit 8 heat), 3 sec internal cd, 1.5 sec attack (crit 8 heat), 3 sec internal cd, 1.5 attack (crit 8 heat).

 

This is the fastest they can vent heat, if it all crits when its supposed to. If they are unlucky they crit during the 2 attacks that occur during the ICD, prolonging the period between vents even more.

 

PTAP specs will need 18 seconds to vent 24 heat.

 

PTST also needs 18 seconds to vent 24, but it requires him to actually shield attacks, which is a useless thing in PvP to have to rely on.

 

Pyrotech will still have the best heat venting/management. Because in the 22.5 second window you will vent 24 heat and have 48 heat unspent on railshot. Thats 72 heat in 22.5 seconds, how long does it take for other specs to vent something equal or even close to 72 heat?

 

This is all coming from the fact that you think you're guaranteed the PPA proc every 6 seconds which is NOT the case. You miss one proc in that 6 second cooldown and you're out worse off than before this change. It's still RNG, and now that there's a 6 second cooldown you will only have a CHANCE at the proc every 7.5 seconds.