Pyro Railshot ever 6 Seconds!??!?!

[Theology]

How is Pyro's venting better than AP's? Lol.And I agree, the ICD is a bad mechanic. This is a band-aid fix for a poorly designed mechanic. FIX BAD WITH BAD!

 

Some of the things Bioware does to classes, not just Powertech(and this goes back to beta), I question whether they've ever played some of these classes with any regularity at 50 with gear. I would assume they don't. Or they're just not very good at their own game.

 

Well, on average pyro should be able to get the RS proc every 2 GCDs so it would be 3 seconds per 8 heat vent. But, unlike the other trees, we actually have to USE heat, just to be able to vent it.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[Varicite]

Yeah whatever but at least i know that even with this nerf heat vent for pyro's is still superior to arsenal and AP. Its simply called math , you whiners all fail at that. I also know that PPA reduces heat by 15.5 ( who has poor class knowledge?). So yes you are whiny nuggets.

And saying to me that i dont understand the class is funny as hell

 

So you basically don't "know" anything. Arsenal has its heat venting built into its abilities via heat reductions.

 

AP is always venting every 6 seconds, whether engaged in combat or traveling between opponents, etc. The mechanic is superior in practice to Pyro's, even though Pyro has free RNG Rail Shots. I can tell you haven't played both specs, as this becomes pretty apparent after a while.

 

So no, a ~9 second venting mechanic isn't as good as Merc's 9 heat vented (not used) every 1.5 seconds via Muzzle Fluting, or a guaranteed 8 heat vented every 6 seconds.

 

I'll concede that Arsenal's heat mechanic is a lot less "fun" than PT versions, but it seems to be in line w/ the Merc healing tree's mechanic of reduced heat costs.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Varicite

[Theology]

So you basically don't "know" anything. Arsenal has its heat venting built into its abilities via heat reductions.

 

AP is always venting every 6 seconds, whether engaged in combat or traveling between opponents, etc. The mechanic is superior in practice to Pyro's, even though Pyro has free RNG Rail Shots. I can tell you haven't played both specs, as this becomes pretty apparent after a while.

 

So no, a ~9 second venting mechanic isn't as good as Merc's 9 heat vented (not used) every 1.5 seconds via Muzzle Fluting, or a guaranteed 8 heat vented every 6 seconds.

 

Not to mention we have to use ~32 heat just to be able to vent that 8 heat every 9 seconds..lol?

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[TooSlo]

Right, so you're basically just in here spouting drivel w/ no actual facts to back up your statements. Gotcha.

 

In short, you don't play a Pyro PT as all of your comments are just flat wrong about the spec, so please kindly leave this topic to people who actually know what they're saying.

 

I'm not opposed to optimism (if anyone has seen my post history in PT forums, I generally try to stay hopeful), but when you come in here and spew a bunch of baseless nonsense, it's not really going to do anything to help the situation.

 

And it certainly reflects poorly on your class knowledge.

 

Considering I believe that Pyro needs to be taken down a peg as well, your argument of "you don't play a PT" is void.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ZTofe.png

 

The fact is that Pyro was too bursty, and PPA in it's current state has far too much swing in the "wow, I'm proccing on every FB and RP" to "Well, at least I have Rapid Shots..." to allow any real balancing of the the spec.

 

Everyone screaming and running about their hair being on fire and end-of-the-world have absolutely no understanding of how MMO class balance works. Saying that you need to buff every other class to bring them in-line is absurd when everything PvE related is too damn easy as-is. Buffing every other class is just going to force BioWare to either make everything PvE related stronger, or rein in the offending classes. (Hint: PT IS one of those ACs)

[Varicite]

Considering I believe that Pyro needs to be taken down a peg as well, your argument of "you don't play a PT" is void.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ZTofe.png

 

The fact is that Pyro was too bursty, and PPA in it's current state has far too much swing in the "wow, I'm proccing on every FB and RP" to "Well, at least I have Rapid Shots..." to allow any real balancing of the the spec.

 

Everyone screaming and running about their hair being on fire and end-of-the-world have absolutely no understanding of how MMO class balance works. Saying that you need to buff every other class to bring them in-line is absurd when everything PvE related is too damn easy as-is. Buffing every other class is just going to force BioWare to either make everything PvE related stronger, or rein in the offending classes. (Hint: PT IS one of those ACs)

 

Considering you have no idea what people are even complaining about, I'll attempt to (probably futilely) educate you.

 

The numbers are simple. 6 second ICD + 1.5 second GCD = 7.5 earliest proc chance. Add in the RNG factor, and it will average to 9 second proc chance (2 GCDs).

 

This brings our heat dissipation out of whack w/ the other specs, and makes a resource hog even worse of a resource hog.

 

Nobody is crying about Rail Shot, or the loss of burst. You probably don't know that our heat venting is TIED to Rail Shot via talents, so if we can't Rail Shot, we can't vent heat other than spamming our basic attack even more. I'll forgive you for that, as you aren't a PT.

 

Basically, they cut our resource regen by ~50% when they were trying to kill the burst instead. That's why people are complaining, because our regen DEFINITELY was not OP.

 

Also, my argument was "You have no idea what you're talking about", and it isn't void, as there's not much to be gained from speaking to the uninformed when it comes to class mechanics.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Varicite

[TooSlo]

Considering you have no idea what people are even complaining about, I'll attempt to (probably futilely) educate you.

 

The numbers are simple. 6 second ICD + 1.5 second GCD = 7.5 earliest proc chance. Add in the RNG factor, and it will average to 9 second proc chance (2 GCDs).

 

This brings our heat dissipation out of whack w/ the other specs, and makes a resource hog even worse of a resource hog.

 

Nobody is crying about Rail Shot, or the loss of burst. You probably don't know that our heat venting is TIED to Rail Shot via talents, so if we can't Rail Shot, we can't vent heat other than spamming our basic attack a few times. I'll forgive you for that, as you aren't a PT.

 

Basically, they cut our resource regen by ~50% when they were trying to kill the burst instead. That's why people are complaining, because our regen DEFINITELY was not OP.

 

I have full understanding how of heat generation mechanics work, as I've stated many times.

 

What you're failing to read in my arguments is that I fully believe that PTs being reined in is necessary. Their sustained DPS is too high, and burst is far too spiky. Whether or not you feel the same way is irrelevant. My argument was that someone who actively plays PT in a high level (read: PvE in HM/NiM content) has an understanding of the class and that in it's current state, it's TOO good.

 

I've shown that I have a 50 PT (and by extension, I play one) and regularly clear HM and NiM content. In PvE, PTs need to have their DPS lowered. I understand that you feel otherwise, but when there is this type of disparity between ACs/specs, a change needs to happen.

 

I can only hope that these changes go into effect and the people who feel PTs should be completely OP will leave the class.

[Theology]

Considering I believe that Pyro needs to be taken down a peg as well, your argument of "you don't play a PT" is void.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ZTofe.png

 

The fact is that Pyro was too bursty, and PPA in it's current state has far too much swing in the "wow, I'm proccing on every FB and RP" to "Well, at least I have Rapid Shots..." to allow any real balancing of the the spec.

 

Everyone screaming and running about their hair being on fire and end-of-the-world have absolutely no understanding of how MMO class balance works. Saying that you need to buff every other class to bring them in-line is absurd when everything PvE related is too damn easy as-is. Buffing every other class is just going to force BioWare to either make everything PvE related stronger, or rein in the offending classes. (Hint: PT IS one of those ACs)

 

Couldn't help but notice the Valor rank.

 

Aside from that, Nobody is upset that Rail shot procs are being tamed. I think we all knew it was coming and are, atleast in my preference, glad to see it. But, seeing as how our heat management is tied to Rail Shot, and now Rail shot can only be used every ~9 seconds, all the while having to use 32 heat just to use railshot to vent 8 heat, is a disaster.

[TooSlo]

Couldn't help but notice the Valor rank.

 

Aside from that, Nobody is upset that Rail shot procs are being tamed. I think we all knew it was coming and are, atleast in my preference, glad to see it. But, seeing as how our heat management is tied to Rail Shot, and now Rail shot can only be used every ~9 seconds, all the while having to use 32 heat just to use railshot to vent 8 heat, is a disaster.

 

I've made my main argument about the PvE state, but have a decent understanding of how PPA has a negative impact on PvP as well.

 

I'm sure that if this change has an end-of-the-world impact on PT being viable at all, it will be addressed. Once again, after 1.2, players will have the ability to pull combat logs and give proof of how changes will impact the class. This will have a great impact on players trying to scream that a change like this is going to remove nearly 1/3 of their DPS.

[BanetheDarkLord]

All that people like Theology and Varicite are trying to say is that there has to be a different way to take down the damage of a Pyro PT other than crippling the foundation of the tree itself, which is it's heat management connection with Rail Shot.

 

You cripple the foundation, there is nothing to build upon.

Edited March 19, 2012 by BanetheDarkLord

[Theology]

All that people like Theology and Varicite are trying to say is that there has to be a different way to take down the damage of a Pyro PT other than crippling the foundation of the tree itself, which is it's heat management connection with Rail Shot.

 

You cripple the foundation, there is nothing to build upon.

 

^^ This.

 

Every PT I know wants the Rail Shot to be a more reliable, consistent method of burst. Removes the luck factor and replaces it with a skill factor.

 

Unfortunately, the idea the Devs have come up with cripples the class too much.

[TooSlo]

Well, I can't change how people react to the changes, so I'll bid you all adieu and wish you the best with either your rerolls or buying another game.

 

I'll be enjoying my PT even after the 1.2 patch.

[Theology]

Well, I can't change how people react to the changes, so I'll bid you all adieu and wish you the best with either your rerolls or buying another game.

 

I'll be enjoying my shieldtech PT even after the 1.2 patch.

 

Fixed it for you bro, best of luck.

[Assaultrooper]

Fixed it for you bro, best of luck.

 

I was gonna do that >.>

[Varicite]

Well, I can't change how people react to the changes, so I'll bid you all adieu and wish you the best with either your rerolls or buying another game.

 

I'll be enjoying my PT even after the 1.2 patch.

 

I understand that you seem to think that our regen even w/out PPA proc'ing back to back is somehow too high.

 

I don't agree. At all.

[Theology]

I dont know man, we've all listed exactly why the ~9 sec per 8 heat vent is outrageous for this spec. IT literally takes no testing at all if you have knowledge of the spec. Yet people seem to think we're still whining about the actual rail shot proc it's self, in terms of dps decrease, it's like..people are stupid or something..

 

OWAIT

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[Microwavegerbil]

Pure RNG is bad design. This removed much of the RNG. Good fix.

[Assaultrooper]

I dont know man, we've all listed exactly why the ~9 sec per 8 heat vent is outrageous for this spec. IT literally takes no testing at all if you have knowledge of the spec. Yet people seem to think we're still whining about the actual rail shot proc it's self, in terms of dps decrease, it's like..people are stupid or something..

 

OWAIT

 

I blame in part the how the patch notes were presented. I mean you read it, and you immeadiately think "YES I vent heat every 6 secs! Its worse than now but not THAT bad." which is not the case...

 

 

Pure RNG is bad design. This removed much of the RNG. Good fix.

 

As the edit to the original post, and the numerous responses in this thread have shown, no the RNG is still there. This was not a buff in any sense of the word.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Assaultrooper

[Theology]

Pure RNG is bad design. This removed much of the RNG. Good fix.

 

Except that it didn't remove ANY rng at all? All it did was tell us we couldn't roll the dice but every 6 seconds. Lol...troll or wut.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

[Sevvy]

Pure RNG is bad design. This removed much of the RNG. Good fix.

 

Internal cooldowns coupled with RNG is bad design. Which means, this change is even worse than what it was.

 

Bioware should have figured out how often they want us to be able to use Rail Shot. Then have Prototype Particle Accelerator lower the cooldown to the desired amount by putting 3 talent points into PPA. Remove all RNG, remove the internal cooldown, remove the ability for PPA to proc when Rail Shot isn't on cooldown(because that's going to hurt us, too.)

 

But that would make too much sense.

[Theology]

Well, between the 2 threads, there's 5.3k views. One of those views had to be a Dev, right?

[Varicite]

Internal cooldowns coupled with RNG is bad design. Which means, this change is even worse than what it was.

 

Bioware should have figured out how often they want us to be able to use Rail Shot. Then have Prototype Particle Accelerator lower the cooldown to the desired amount by putting 3 talent points into PPA. Remove all RNG, remove the internal cooldown, remove the ability for PPA to proc when Rail Shot isn't on cooldown(because that's going to hurt us, too.)

 

But that would make too much sense.

 

Pretty much that. If they want to keep the "exciting" part of the spec, just lower the ICD to 3-4 secs.

 

Solved.

[Theology]

3 seconds for the, what i assume intended heat venting timer of 6 seconds.

[Badhorsee]

All of these people crying are kind of funny to me. Yes it is a nerf, but we really did need it. If you don't think we did, I have news for you, you are not good at this game. I pull about 500k damage in almost every huttball game I play. I have screenshots of me with records like 83-0. The funny thing is, I wasn't even in full champion in a lot of the SS. The class is extremely op. Now, onto how this will effect the way I play. I feel tat I will still be able to murder most classes, as you will get 2 railshots off before you even have to worry about the 6 seconds, combined with moves like TD and flame burst etc in between those 6 seconds. When you move on to your next victim that 6 seconds will be gone and you get to do it again. Perhaps it might be a little tougher to kill healers, but I feel the class will still be fine. I will also probably have to impliment full auto now, which I'm not stoked about, but it isn't terrible.

[Theology]

All of these people crying are kind of funny to me. Yes it is a nerf, but we really did need it. If you don't think we did, I have news for you, you are not good at this game. I pull about 500k damage in almost every huttball game I play. I have screenshots of me with records like 83-0. The funny thing is, I wasn't even in full champion in a lot of the SS. The class is extremely op. Now, onto how this will effect the way I play. I feel tat I will still be able to murder most classes, as you will get 2 railshots off before you even have to worry about the 6 seconds, combined with moves like TD and flame burst etc in between those 6 seconds. When you move on to your next victim that 6 seconds will be gone and you get to do it again. Perhaps it might be a little tougher to kill healers, but I feel the class will still be fine. I will also probably have to impliment full auto now, which I'm not stoked about, but it isn't terrible.

 

Clearly didn't read anything that anyone with knowledge on the subject posted.

[Bewzled]

Pure RNG is bad design. This removed much of the RNG. Good fix.

 

Didn't remove any RNG. You're just being tricked by Bioware's intentionally vague patch notes. Proc rate only being increased by 15%, still completely RNG based with a terrible limiting factor.