1.2 Mara buffed, Operatives nerfed... Absolutely baffling.

[slowantics]

you make it seem like this will be a game changer. they just moved some stuff around. thats pretty much it. being a sent im happy i can now switch back to my favorite spec combat!!

healers will cleanse watchmans burns. if they are good. so get good and instead of crying adapt.

[LiveandDieinLA]

yeah I want operatives buffed not nerfed. Operatives were the counter to the tank/healer guard combo, now they will be meh.

[KhealThar]

you must be slow, been in it for 3 months, l2r plz...

 

haha i bet you have bud

[Archaar]

I just don't understand Bioware's thinking, I really don't. How can they not see the ramifications of what they are doing, it is almost like they are trying to kill of the game with these weird buffs to an already powerful class, whilst ignoring classes that NEED adjustments, I just don't understand what they are doing / thinking.

[KhealThar]

I just don't understand Bioware's thinking, I really don't. How can they not see the ramifications of what they are doing, it is almost like they are trying to kill of the game with these weird buffs to an already powerful class, whilst ignoring classes that NEED adjustments, I just don't understand what they are doing / thinking.

 

They're buffing Sentinel/Marauder specs that are garbage. Why can't people understand something so simple?

 

Combat and Focus for Sentinels are not good in pvp compared to Watchman. As much as people with pocket healers being guarded think it is, it isn't.

 

It's like saying the buffs to Tactics isn't warranted because Assault Specialist is a powerful spec.

 

There's a reason games don't innovate anymore, it's because all the behaviour of the people that play them. They whine when developers do ANYTHING.

 

"BUFFING A SPEC NO ONE USES? *** !!! THIS GAME IS RUINED!11!1"

 

It's ridiculous.

[EbonFade]

The real problem is that BW seems to be catering to whining from the worst PvPers, and meanwhile neglecting feedback from the top PvP guilds.

 

I assure you, no PvP guild really feared any dps sorcerers, concealment OPs, or dps Mercs. All of there damage is trivially LOSd, unsustained or interruptible.

 

The real problem were Pyro vanguards, Marauders and certain Juggs who are able to assist train and face plant any class in the game in seconds. They make a mockery of sorc and op healers.

 

Pretty much the only deserved nerf was to Trooper healers, who are probably the only class capable of living through the above.

 

Anyway, for weeks now weve had to listen to newbie whining about the WRONG issues. This is not going to end well

[fungihoujo]

People weren't even crying about them after their original nerf. Why they are being nerfed again is beyond me...

 

This right here- the initial nerf to their burst was necessary- though they should have given something like a sprint for example in return- but, they were destroying players in seconds with ease from stealth. Since, sure, they can still take out half your health in an opening combo, but that was manageable.

 

Hence why the nerf calls stopped....

 

 

Frankly, BW seems extremely far from the pulse of reality- nerfing things that really don't need to be nerfed, breaking certain classes without offerring any sort of alternative to the specs they gutted... while buffing the classes that were already top dog.

 

Seems to be like WoW, figures the warrior class is always the one that's the most OP. It has top arena rating percentage in WoW, same here without a question.

 

 

Didn't take long for them to start throwing massive nerf bats around at all, and good thing they timed it right for rated WZ so that all the people who have to reroll are months behind. Real classy BW.

[Kajebko]

Bioware (dear Santa Claus),

 

I am a Carnage Marauder.

I was doing fine until now, in PVP.

 

With this patch, i'm going to be the true "King of snares" (snare with Carnage now uninterruptible, snare with deadly throw + healing debuff not removable, snare from force jump, spammable crippling slash... All of those snares, of course, do not depend of resolve !)

 

Oh, and thank you for 50% damage mitigation which comes with force camouflage.

Now I'm gonna keep my invincibility for the second jump on my poor target.

 

And thank you again for the 10% damage buff applied to my lovely Ataru form !

 

I'm still not OP, so please give me :

A jump on friend

A force push

A 30 meters range & spammable vicious throw

A new damage mitigation ability (-75% damage would be fine, so i could use it just before my invicibility)

A third light saber

...

 

BIOWARE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE !!

ALL HATERS WILL REROLL MARA'S NOW !!

 

AAAARGH !!!!

 

I hate you, but thank you though.

[Frawmus]

Healer op got a buff, So I'm happy at least Now I'll be more viable in PvP ~

 

Besides, its not like that many people play OP in pvp anyway :|

[fungihoujo]

The real problem is that BW seems to be catering to whining from the worst PvPers, and meanwhile neglecting feedback from the top PvP guilds.

 

I assure you, no PvP guild really feared any dps sorcerers, concealment OPs, or dps Mercs. All of there damage is trivially LOSd, unsustained or interruptible.

 

The real problem were Pyro vanguards, Marauders and certain Juggs who are able to assist train and face plant any class in the game in seconds. They make a mockery of sorc and op healers.

 

Pretty much the only deserved nerf was to Trooper healers, who are probably the only class capable of living through the above.

 

Anyway, for weeks now weve had to listen to newbie whining about the WRONG issues. This is not going to end well

 

This right here, and the worst part of it is- they're catering to the loud mouthed bads on the forum... while also nerfing into the ground the most played class- so they're both catering to complete morons AND forcing a huge chunk of their playerbase to unsub at the same time.

 

This action hurts every aspect of the game except for the ignorant bunch who are playing a high skillcap class like a mara poorly and don't know how to beat classes that their class should always destroy.

[mkster]

I dont see why people are freaking out over the marauders, most people who reroll marauder wont know *** they are doing first off... second how is marauder the wtfpwnz0r any class in the game? I have ZERO problem with a rage marauder's smash as an assassin, even in easier in deception.

 

Just pop force shroud after their very first hit then they wont even get you down past 85% health LAWL.

 

If its that easy for deception clearly the definition of squishy then other classes should be able to beat a rage marauder.

 

the only real threat is their smash, which is a joke,

 

DONT let them run away from you then leap on your head which stuns you and lets them smash your face... you only have to be 5 meters away from them to be away from their smash... a good ranged shouldnt have much problem.

 

They wont smash without their stacks for extra smash dmg..

 

essentially LOS them if you can lol, dont let them get away from you when they run away

 

 

 

I see very little threat from marauders now, and unless I am missing something SOOO important then they will still be a poor choice for pvp

 

 

I am speaking 1v1 specifics, if they have a healer you are going to be focused on their healer while they are smashing your head so you will prob lose unless you have a healer then youre fine. If you cant count their CD for force leap and smash and cc right b4 its up it buys you loads of time.

 

IDK what to say about operatives but it doesnt look too great for them seeing as in deception they are easy enough to kill already because their stealth is even more broken than assassin's and i can ALWAYS see them while dueling (no we are not in the same party while dueling) so they never have the opener, and even if they get it, oh noes they hit for for 4k!! oh thats it, ok finish them off.

 

 

EDIT:::::: very good anhi marauders kinda of scare me sometimes

Edited March 18, 2012 by mkster

[Raggok]

The real problem is that BW seems to be catering to whining from the worst PvPers, and meanwhile neglecting feedback from the top PvP guilds.

 

I assure you, no PvP guild really feared any dps sorcerers, concealment OPs, or dps Mercs. All of there damage is trivially LOSd, unsustained or interruptible.

 

The real problem were Pyro vanguards, Marauders and certain Juggs who are able to assist train and face plant any class in the game in seconds. They make a mockery of sorc and op healers.

 

Pretty much the only deserved nerf was to Trooper healers, who are probably the only class capable of living through the above.

 

Anyway, for weeks now weve had to listen to newbie whining about the WRONG issues. This is not going to end well

 

Dead on. Pyro, Marauder, Jugg trains are the ONLY thing that can pressure us ATM. And when they are topend PvP/PvE geared the damage is too much to heal.

[vimm]

How can people say that marauder didn't get buffed? That's all it got, lol.

[ComeAndSee]

The thing is with Marauder's/Sentinel's is there's only 3-5 GOOD ones on my entire server and the rest are absolutely horrible. The good ones basically mow down people 1v1 like a knife through butter and I literally have to baby sit healers in order to keep them from getting murdered by the tiny portion of good ones. Edited March 18, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Raggok]

The thing is with Marauder's/Sentinel's is there's only 3-5 GOOD ones on my entire server and the rest are absolutely horrible. The good ones basically mow down people 1v1 like a knife through butter and I literally have to baby sit healers in order to keep them from getting murdered by the tiny portion of good ones.

 

And we have the common dilemma of rather you should balance a game around the good players or the average players. I've always supported balancing around the good players, personally.

[Derian]

This is long but I broke down the buffs/nerfs and Watchman/Combat tree. Most of you have no clue how the class works, so this should be helpful.

 

There are always massive failures in the comprehension of changes to a class but those who don't play the class. It's understandable, without personally playing a class I find it tough to do myself. I am creating this to sort the changes out for my own use, and try and explain one player's (mine) POV.

 

There is a legitimate concern about Sentinel/Marauder being OP that is finally being realized because more than a handful of people aren't terrible at the class, and the roles I saw in September/November are now inverse. By the way, let's break these changes down for the non Sentinel/Marauder. I haven't played Marauder for a while so I will use Sentinel terms, sorry my marauder brothers.

 

If you read my background (below), you will know that I don't really put much credibility into what the masses think anymore after they were proven to be so incredibly wrong about the class. I have little experience with Focus so I won't touch that spec, but the majority of you that don't like Marauder/Sentinel in it's current form because it rips you up are talking about the other two trees. Focus is the simpler of the three, but less rewarding IMO.

 

 

Jedi Knight

 

Awe no longer costs Focus to activate.

This is nice. A minor buff to the class. Before we needed focus to use this which mean we had to attack something first. Now, we can use our AOE Daze without having to attack first. Which makes sense. Awe is very useful for many different situations, being CC. Good Watchman/Annihilation spec'd Sentinels/Marauders don't usually get caught with no focus in intense situations, however.

 

Dispatch can now be used on targets at or below 30% of maximum health (up from 20%).

Very nice buff. Sentinels are very used to getting below 20% before using this move. 30% will increase our overall DPS by a significant amount. Our 4 piece PVP bonus is 15 meters on our Dispatch. Dispatch/Merciless slash are the two highest burst skills for a Watchman. It's reasonable to expect it to drop Sorc in this with no bubble up or other mitigation, that's around 12% of their health or so. I've dropped them up to 15-17% health left if I'm lucky. The main thing is, it's a massive ranged damage dealer, and it can be used more now.

 

Force Kick no longer costs Focus to activate.

Force Kick/interrupt (for anyone) is EXTREMELY important with so many casters around. As a Sentinel you find yourself in situations where you may be tying up two healers. Force Kick one, force leap another, daze another, whatever. Anything to keep heals popping off. When it's frantic nothing sucks more than to go for that force kick button, and it not work because you don't have 1 focus. I don't wait around for the animation, I hit the keybind and I move on to the next action (It's off the GCD). This will help us control healers/casters even more, not so much for saving the focus, but because now we can use it without thinking about it. It didn't happen often but it was annoying. Sentinels interrupt all the time, so it will add up over time as well. Minor-Moderate buff.

 

Master Strike can no longer be interrupted.

While it's still hard to get a full 3 tics with Watchman since you don't root the target, with Combat/Carnage this is HUGE. Like very very huge. Combat/Carnage needed a damage buff. It lacked the durability of a watchman, and typically did inferior damage. It also was bugged in a couple ways. This is a decent buff for Watchman and a huge buff for Combat. MS hits like a truck with no resource cost. If you are wily about it you can use it as Watchman and get use out of it, but the final tick does most the damage and it's hard to land that one.

 

Sentinel

Crippling Throw's "Trauma" effect can no longer be cleansed.

Glad they made this change. It wouldn't be very useful if it could be cleansed. I don't see this as a buff, as much as it is a fix. Healers heal, and they cleanse, so they can just fix it themselves on targets of importance, the CD is too high to spam on multiple targets.

 

Force Camouflage now additionally reduces all damage taken by 50% while active.

For the Watchman/Annihilation spec, this is actually a nerf. Any Watchman who didn't have Force fade (gave Force Camo 100% invulnerability) well...I will refrain. Needless to say force fade is a no brainer. Force Fade saves your life from dots, saves your life another 4 seconds to hopefully receive healing or continue stopping caps. It can be used as an opener, etc. Which all of this it can still do. Watchman does gain the ability to increase the speed bonus and duration in it's place. Though keep in mind, Force Camo is on 45 second cooldown. This means we could walk through fire pits in stealth every 45 seconds. We could walk through a nuke with Force Camo on. I'll miss it. Significant Nerf to Watchman. Moderate Buff to other trees.

 

 

Pacify no longer has a Focus cost and is no longer limited by the global cooldown.

Pacify drops a targets accuracy by 90%. It has silently saved the life of many tanks/healers. Good Sentinels will throw this on a high DPS threat in vicinity when they can and switch targets if they need to. Taking it off the GCD means we can do this in between our DPS, and it's nice not having to worry about the 1 point of focus. Moderate buff, saving GCDs ftw.

 

Transcendence now affects all Operation Group members.

Eh. Bug fix? No brainer.

Zen (while in Ataru Form) now additionally reduces the Focus cost and global cooldown of Cyclone Slash.

Cyclone Slash in it's current form is ok for situational use. For breaking caps on multiples or without changing targets when Force Sweep is down, it will be interesting for Combat spec to have these changes. The damage isn't very high though but it's spammable and 1 focus with spec. Minor buff

 

Watchman (Moderate burst DPS, extremely high sustained DPS, Burns Bleeds, Durability)

 

Focused Pursuit has been replaced by Focused Leap, which increases the Focus generated by Force Leap.

FP gave us a 30% boost on Transcendence, our party speed buff, which is 50 base. Given the philosophy of each tree, it didn't make much since in Watchman anyway but it was awesome. This spec quietly causes a lot of Rage Quitting in VS. With it, you can aoe AWE everyone at the door, valrous call if needed, transcendence, force camo and get ahead of everybody and buff your group, the force camo made it so nobody targeted you with a slow, or knocked you out via damage with force fade. 50% is nice but 80% is a number that makes it superior to Force Speed because it lasts 10 seconds. With good awareness of your CDs, Focus isn't too hard to manage for Watchman spec, but now that it gives focus it does make it easier for people who thought it was too much to pay attention to. Minor-Moderate nerf

 

Force Fade no longer grants damage reduction while Force Camouflage is active. It now increases the duration of Force Camouflage by 1 second per point and increases the movement speed bonus of Force Camouflage by 10% per point.

This is, for me, the biggest nerf. I LOVE Force Fade. Force Fade is like Sentinel duct tape. It has a lot of uses and is awesome. A big reason why Watchmaon>Combat in current form. Force Camo is an ability that makes us invis (not a true vanish we stay in combat) for 4 seconds.

 

Combat can spec it to break snares and I think roots. Watchman got Force Fade which, with two points gave 100% damage immunity to ANYTHING for it's duration. There is a massive thread whining about Guarded By the Force. Force Fade>GBTF any day all day. GBTF bought you some time, but it's designed to be your last straw, it should be your last Defensive CD popped to maximize it's usefulness, buuuutttt Force Camo with Force Fade extends that, because when it ends you can just pop that and go invul/invis for 4 seconds, get some heals, LOS use terrain to get out of sight, get backup, prevent caps a little longer etc and damage didnt knock you out, and Dots didn't hurt you.

 

Force Camo is only on a 45s cooldown, this ability is awesome. It actually makes me feel bad for the intelligence of Humans when they complain about GBTF while Force Fade, once again, quietly is one of the major reasons we are/were hard to kill. Getting focused? Force Fade. In a tough kiting situation? Force Fade. Get pulled in Acid/Fire? Force Fade. Want to move through a ton of AOE without being spotted? Force fade. I will miss you. <3 I guess the added speed is nice, and gives it more utility in what it was designed for. Without force fade, damage will knock us out of stealth. (Which is why I don't get the 50% damage reduction, won't damage end the duration?) Moderate-Severe Nerf to Watchman.

 

Inflammation now applies a 50% movement speed reduction (up from 30%).

Inflammation is applied when we land Cauterize. Our DD ability that lands a 6 second DOT and should be used whenever it's up for maximum DPS. Our spammable snare is a 50% speed reduction. Having inflammation match this makes it much more useful and these points can be spent elsewhere. With the extra focus we now have laying around, we can proc Cauterize finishing it's CD more often via slash, and so this may be very awesome indeed. Moderate Buff to Watchman.

 

Valor is now located in Tier 1 of the skill tree.

Valor increases centering building per focus point used. Watchman get it since it's in our tree, but it was up pretty high. Now Combat can get it as well. This will greatly increases their centering gain, and Zen usage. (though their Zen ability still isn't as good). It means more Transendence which is always a good thing. Moderate Buff Focus/Combat

 

Combat (High burst damage, moderate-high sustained DPS, increased root ability, increased combat mobility)

 

Ataru Form damage effects (procs) now deal weapon-based damage instead of Force-based damage. The overall damage of these effects has been increased by approximately 10%.

I'm not sure how to evaluate this move. Making it weapon based means that it can now be mitigated. Maybe by intention? Needs clarification. Maybe that's what the 10% is for. More for shredding light armor. I'd go with buff since there's a lot of Inqs/Consulars

 

Ataru Form now correctly triggers when fighting very large targets.

PVE don't care

 

Fleetfooted now additionally increases the movement speed bonus granted by Transcendence by 15% per point.

Moderate buff to Combat's group utility. The 30% is big in WZs. It can really cripple a team in VS if used properly

Edited March 18, 2012 by Derian

[Derian]

How can people say that marauder didn't get buffed? That's all it got, lol.

 

Watchman/Annihilation spec took a fairly potent nerf to their survivability. Overall, the intent is to make Focus/Combat more viable. Combat was close, but needed something to match Watchman, so they nerfed Watchman a little and gave Combat one of Watchman's spec's. They gave Focus a substantial buff.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Derian

[Jarfunkz]

Patch 1.2 The Shadow/Sin WARS!

[nschlan]

Watchman/Annihilation spec took a fairly potent nerf to their survivability. Overall, the intent is to make Focus/Combat more viable. Combat was close, but needed something to match Watchman, so they nerfed Watchman a little and gave Combat one of Watchman's spec's. They gave Focus a substantial buff.

 

Damn, posted it first

[aspectsofwar]

And we have the common dilemma of rather you should balance a game around the good players or the average players. I've always supported balancing around the good players, personally.

 

That's how it should be in my opinion. I guess this game isn't meant to be taken seriously and is just a sandbox for casuals. Apparently its not for me.

 

I really really hope GW2 is good.

[Acanti]

Buffing other Sent/Mara trees? Sure, that's fine.

 

Where's the same treatment for Dirty Fighting for Scoundrels? It's like Bioware recognizes Scrapper as the only viable tree, and then of course proceeds to nerf it every other patch.

[Asturias]

Marauder - the strongest DPS in the game and arguably most powerful PvP class in organized PvP get massive buffs.

 

Operative - the weakest sustained DPS in the game has sustained DPS nerfed while keeping high burst.

 

This should confirm to everyone how clueless Bioware is when it comes to class balance. I've lost all hope. I hate to say it but this puts the nail in the coffin for me. I don't see bioware suddenly having an epiphany and understanding class balance any time in the near future. Do you?

 

I couldnt agree more. Kinda pissed off about a lot of the changes. Its like the lead combat designer doesnt understand jack.

[Saint_Bailey]

People weren't even crying about them after their original nerf. Why they are being nerfed again is beyond me...

 

Personally, my opinion is that the Operative dmg both burst and sustained is perfectly fine. All they really needed to do was play around with the talent tree so operative hybrids couldn't sustain dps and stealth out of combat for quick heals then jump straight back on to the guy who did have the upper hand.

[Izzu]

This is long but I broke down the buffs/nerfs and Watchman/Combat tree. Most of you have no clue how the class works, so this should be helpful...

 

...Without force fade, damage will knock us out of stealth. (Which is why I don't get the 50% damage reduction, won't damage end the duration?) Moderate-Severe Nerf to Watchman...

 

Excellent post. Highlights the true nature of everything that's happening to annihilation/watchman Marauders/Sentinels and how it's actually going to affect us.

 

IIRC, when I was <50 and had force camo but not enough skill points to fully spec phantom (marauder version of force fade), I would be taking damage while force camo'd, but not breaking stealth. I have been annihilation spec'd since I started playing the game, however, and have been spec'd in phantom for a long time now, so let's just hope my memory is telling me the truth, hah. I will miss the invulnerability , truly underrated.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Izzu

[ImSaved]

Buffing other Sent/Mara trees? Sure, that's fine.

 

Where's the same treatment for Dirty Fighting for Scoundrels? It's like Bioware recognizes Scrapper as the only viable tree, and then of course proceeds to nerf it every other patch.

 

If you're playing a Scoundrel in 1.2 and you're not healing, chances are no one on your team wants you there.