Bocherel Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) So far the only point you have made! And you have yet to make one... Edited March 22, 2012 by Bocherel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Unfortunately Neechi, the issue is that the person can be dead before the timer from those limited numbers of stuns has expired. Especially from an Operative duo. I have been killed in 5 seconds from 2 Operatives, I literally never got out of the stun. The problem isn't the stun it is the death from the stun. Thus lowering the damage mitigates the stun lock. 2 of any class can do this. Operatives are not overpowered, at all. They are in fact quite weak as melee dps, and better replaced by other classes. The truth is, only bad puggers think getting opened on by 2 operatives while having no healer, no taunts, no guardswap, no teamplay to peel them, and dying in 5 seconds is unfair. It's a 2v1 and you are out of position. You deserve to die. Plus as a marauder/sentinel, there is simply no way to die in 5 seconds to anything. QQing about it just makes you a bad player. Edited March 22, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It's a 2v1 and you are out of position. You deserve to die. Plus as a marauder/sentinel, there is simply no way to die in 5 seconds to anything. QQing about it just makes you a bad player. There are plenty of ways to die in 5 seconds as a Marauder or a Sentinel. We can't use our defensive abilities if we are stunned. The main difference is the other classes who can do this I can see coming. I can try to avoid them. I can't avoid someone who is invisible and who comes out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableShadow Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) There are plenty of ways to die in 5 seconds as a Marauder or a Sentinel. We can't use our defensive abilities if we are stunned. The main difference is the other classes who can do this I can see coming. I can try to avoid them. I can't avoid someone who is invisible and who comes out of nowhere. Yah, as I said in other threads, people really have a problem with stealth. The rest of the verbal gymnastics is just that. That's a problem in any PvP game: how do you balance surprise? If you balance it around stealth, then it's absolutely *needed* ... Kudos for the only honest anti-OP/Scoundrel post I've ever seen on these boards ... or maybe you're one of a handful that actually took the time to understand what they disliked about the ability. Edited March 22, 2012 by SableShadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) There are plenty of ways to die in 5 seconds as a Marauder or a Sentinel. We can't use our defensive abilities if we are stunned. The main difference is the other classes who can do this I can see coming. I can try to avoid them. I can't avoid someone who is invisible and who comes out of nowhere. Wow. OK it's pretty much confirmed that you're an awful player. Marauder/Sentinel can break assists better than any other class in the game. That is exactly why we are so strong in group PVP and dominate warzones. That you don't even know how to do this explains why you are so bad. Edited March 22, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) There are plenty of ways to die in 5 seconds as a Marauder or a Sentinel. We can't use our defensive abilities if we are stunned. The main difference is the other classes who can do this I can see coming. I can try to avoid them. I can't avoid someone who is invisible and who comes out of nowhere. Actually Assassins can do the exact same thing. But most of them don't even spec into the deception tree (the equivalent to the Operative concealment tree) because they can be even MORE useful out of stealth in the thick of the action. Also one argument that is often used from people that agree with the Operative nerfs is that "Operatives can kill their targets in one stunlock" (which by the way only happens with stim + relic + 3 min cooldown popped). What they forget though is that ANY OTHER CLASS can kill them in just ONE SHOT by knocking them off the bridge in Voidstar, knocking them in the Huttball pit or knocking them into the Fire. Assassins can even do that FROM STEALTH. Operative is the only class without a knockback so they are the only class that can't do that. Edited March 22, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What they forget though is that ANY OTHER CLASS can kill them in just ONE SHOT by knocking them off the bridge in Voidstar, knocking them in the Huttball pit or knocking them into the Fire. Assassins can even do that FROM STEALTH. Operative is the only class without a knockback so they are the only class that can't do that. Incorrect. Sentinels and Marauders do not have any form of knock back available to them at all. They cannot knock people off of bridges or into acid or fire. Nor can they pull them into acid, off bridges, or into fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableShadow Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Assassins can even do that FROM STEALTH. Yeah, well ... one smeghead with a lightsaber looks like any other smeghead with a lightsaber. OPs have knives. It would be a fun experiment: for two weeks, replace OP shivs and Scoundrel shotguns with glowsticks, and see where the QQ goes. Edited March 22, 2012 by SableShadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiroikage Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Incorrect. Sentinels and Marauders do not have any form of knock back available to them at all. They cannot knock people off of bridges or into acid or fire. Nor can they pull them into acid, off bridges, or into fire. you do however have charge/leaps to compensate. We dont. Edited March 22, 2012 by Shiroikage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 In all honesty, I see other Operatives coming far before I see myself getting leaped to by that sent who just ran around the corner. Stealth is so weak in this game, you can be seen from 20m away if you don't have sneak up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiroikage Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Yeah, well ... one smeghead with a lightsaber looks like any other smeghead with a lightsaber. OPs have knives. It would be a fun experiment: for two weeks, replace OP shivs and Scoundrel shotguns with glowsticks, and see where the QQ goes. Yeah that would be funny especially if the glow sticks where half the usual size. They would be like light-daggers hahaha In all honesty, I see other Operatives coming far before I see myself getting leaped to by that sent who just ran around the corner. Stealth is so weak in this game, you can be seen from 20m away if you don't have sneak up. My biggest problem with stealth is not that people see me. I can work around that. What i really hate is that once you are out of stealth you will probably remain out of stealth till you either die or have a CD to pop. In wow after 8" of not hitting anyone or being hitted by anyone places you out of combat. But here no you have to be the hero till you die. Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Incorrect. Sentinels and Marauders do not have any form of knock back available to them at all. They cannot knock people off of bridges or into acid or fire. Nor can they pull them into acid, off bridges, or into fire. Is that all that you can reply to my post? Because if it is, then you just proved my point. Usually people start nitpicking when they are out of arguments. Edited March 22, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiviolence Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 There are plenty of ways to die in 5 seconds as a Marauder or a Sentinel. We can't use our defensive abilities if we are stunned. The main difference is the other classes who can do this I can see coming. I can try to avoid them. I can't avoid someone who is invisible and who comes out of nowhere. Really? You're QQing about stealth? Is this your first MMO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableShadow Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Really? You're QQing about stealth? Is this your first MMO? Have you ever seen a game where people *don't* get annoyed with stealth? Other than AoC at launch, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspectsofwar Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) My biggest problem with stealth is not that people see me. I can work around that. What i really hate is that once you are out of stealth you will probably remain out of stealth till you either die or have a CD to pop. In wow after 8" of not hitting anyone or being hitted by anyone places you out of combat. But here no you have to be the hero till you die. Yeah I never understood the randomness of dropping out of combat. Sometimes its as fast as WoW, sometimes it takes a full minute of not interacting with anyone and everywhere in between. It in no way can be relied upon as a way to restealth, regen, or mount. If you try you could potentially be CCing yourself for a full minute. Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa content quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah I never understood the randomness of dropping out of combat. Sometimes its as fast as WoW, sometimes it takes a full minute of not interacting with anyone and everywhere in between. It in no way can be relied upon as a way to restealth, regen, or mount. If you try you could potentially be CCing yourself for a full minute. Usually it seems like I am stuck in combat until the person who hit me last died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosPeros Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Actually Assassins can do the exact same thing. But most of them don't even spec into the deception tree (the equivalent to the Operative concealment tree) because they can be even MORE useful out of stealth in the thick of the action. Also one argument that is often used from people that agree with the Operative nerfs is that "Operatives can kill their targets in one stunlock" (which by the way only happens with stim + relic + 3 min cooldown popped). What they forget though is that ANY OTHER CLASS can kill them in just ONE SHOT by knocking them off the bridge in Voidstar, knocking them in the Huttball pit or knocking them into the Fire. Assassins can even do that FROM STEALTH. Operative is the only class without a knockback so they are the only class that can't do that. Sorry but Sentinels have no knockbacks either. And though force stasis does a small amount of damage we can not hit our opponents when we do stun them or it breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosPeros Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 you do however have charge/leaps to compensate. We dont. You have a gun and grenades. we don't. We get only one attack at 30 m almost all of our damage must be dealt with in 4 m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoLager Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You have a gun and grenades. we don't. We get only one attack at 30 m almost all of our damage must be dealt with in 4 m. You have a gap closer on a small timer. Operatives have nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Sorry but Sentinels have no knockbacks either. And though force stasis does a small amount of damage we can not hit our opponents when we do stun them or it breaks. What's your point? My point still stands: Other classes can one-shot you with their knockbacks but noone complains about it because almost EVERY CLASS can do it. Operatives can't do it but noone realizes that so everybody keeps complaining about "being killed in one stunlock blablah". Edited March 22, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyStik Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Operatives can't do it but noone realizes that so everybody keeps complaining about "being killed in one stunlock blablah". I'd say that is a fair trade off, can't have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I'd say that is a fair trade off, can't have both. You are also missing my point. It may be a fair trade off but it is NOT fair that people complain about Operatives killing them quickly but don't complain about other classes one-shotting them with their knockbacks. You say "can't have both". The irony is that Operatives will have NEITHER in 1.2. Assassins, Powertechs, Mercenaries, Snipers, Marauders already habe better burst (if specced into it) while also having great utility (like knockbacks, gap closers, pulls, group buffs etc.). And this gap will only get bigger. Edited March 22, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eibhibac Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 All this patch does is make the other 2 Mara specs actually usefull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hard to tell if there are really these many bad operatives, or they are simply trolling for sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hard to tell if there are really these many bad operatives, or they are simply trolling for sympathy. Good operatives are concerned because they know class strengths and weaknesses, ... and its biggest weakness is 8 man premade with competent players on voice chat. All this patch does is make the other 2 Mara specs as overpowered as the first one. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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