1.2 is a spit in the face of Vanguards, and a buff to the OP sentinels

[jbuschell]

Good sents and maras will stay watchman or combat anyway, no worries, well except they got buffed too

[Garic_Wildstar]

oh god people are starting to cry bout 1.2 listen just cause they nerfing the class 1 hit kill button doesn't mean people should get all bent out of shape bout it. learn to adapt. k as for juggs u say they op but for them to put that dps out they need to be rage build or fucus, vigilance can do it also but most juggs/gaurds are rage/focus. other words 1 trick to their skill, and can easily be counterd if the player is smart. as for sents/mars ill agree they feel op to me, but only if you know how to play your class very well. sents/mars aren't actually a walk in the park u know. sents don't have 1 hit ko buttons like other class do. for example, sorcs when they abused the exploit with their lightning, or troopers/bh with their tracer missles. i quote on what the dev said, " we are specifically changing tracer/gravron to encourage players to use more skills in their rotation." lol other words they knew that troopers/bh was *********** spamming 1 button. guys stop crying and just learn how to play better. remember this isn't 100% out yet its in public testing, so all just freaking relax. u guys all got your panties in a bunch that it is making me so happy that sents/juggs is gonna own people in pvp lol, not that they already don't.

 

I have two words: periods and capitalization. I ran out of breath after the first 2 lines. Run-ons like this people call a "wall of text" and usually just ignore. Keep it simple, formatted, and to the point.

[Rotm]

Tactics probably viable, Assault Spec not stupid ridiculous with Ion Pulse spam till HIB recharges. Sucks cause I liked Assault Spec, but it became FOTM so would rather see people pick a new class.

 

Van are still low pop and Mara is and still will be fotm, moreso probably now given that they nerfed almost everything else.

 

23-24/18-17 tactics/assault has got to edge full tactics still, and it will for as long as Fire Pulse continues to barely an edge Ion Pulse + Plasma Cell. If the new proc chance on Ionic Accel is high enough for 2/2 Pulse Generator to edge 2/3 instead of 3/3 Ionic Accel, or bearing whether new Combat Tacits is worth taking, then a full Tactics build would actually be punishing you for using the GCD on a Fire Pulse over a hybrid spec Ion Pulse for Pulse Generator procs.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Rotm

[ComeAndSee]

Energy blast off GCD is useful. It's rather awkward to use because of its delay.

 

I do like the free riot strike though, but they basically butchered the hybrid builds.

Edited March 17, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[The_FLIPmode]

GG hybrid builds...now the carolina parakeet build will be just as extinct as the real parakeet...

[dejavy]

I don't feel enjoyment playing trooper now (have both BM commando/vanguard) The only build was fine against most classes except Marauders was AS(vang). Now marauders gonna fu** us even harder but we got nothing from the patch. Probably the class balance designers are the same people who made Ilum.

 

When we all started playing TOR there were so many different classes on WZs. What do we have now? RED STICKS ARE APPROACHING......... Oh, man... Why SO many peeps chose them? Interesting and useful skills, that's it.

 

Well, congratulations BW you've made a great star wars fanboy game. Lightsaber dominate. Happy now? If 1.2 fails, tor would fail too. It's your last chance BW. GL.

Edited March 17, 2012 by dejavy

[Quintan]

Yeah pvp was fine and what's up with these huge changes? I thought very small changes were the way to go and not screw everything up.

 

Didn't they get the memo?

 

I'm upset I wont be able to enjoy this game anymore but this gives me the boost i needed to call it quits and not be to perplexed about it.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Quintan

[HazardOOI]

I won't miss the hybrid builds. Overall pleasant changes for the vangaurd imo.

 

 

Yeah pvp was fine and what's up with these huge changes? I thought very small changes were the way to go and not screw everything up.

 

Didn't they get the memo?

 

I'm upset I wont be able to enjoy this game anymore but this gives me the boost i needed to call it quits and not be to perplexed about it.

 

You're not being very specific about what exactly you're quitting over, unless you're quitting because a major patch has too much change in it.

[Blurps]

People over on the BH board are saying Ionic Accelerator procs are up to 45% on Ion Pulse and 60% on ShockStrike, i.e. you'll get to use HiB every 9 secs on average and still have to spam Ion Pulse/SS frantically to get even that.

 

Sad face.

[grandmasterub]

Basically its the same thing they did to shadows. Nerf the popular hybrid spec. Nerf the uber proc.

 

I like the tactics changes although I'm not sure its enough. I feel like either gut or fire pulse needs a little more umph and then it would be golden.

 

IF is going to gain in popularity now...

 

As for sent/guard they probably got a little more love than necessary but I don't see it being the end of the world. Honestly surprised dps shadows didn't get anything seeing as theyre nigh useless.

[Varena]

I seem to remember one of the devs saying that the game is based around pure (or almost pure) builds, which is why we're seeing all the possible hybrid specs slowly removed in successive patches.

 

I play mostly as a SS with occasional forays into Assault when we need another dps and aside from the reduction in AoE diameter I can't see this as anything more than housekeeping and (for PvE) in the case of assault, making resource management easier by giving us a more reliable, less RNG based way to regen ammo.

 

For shield spec, depending on the numbers for the changed/new absorb traits, it will most likely end up being a buff to PvE survivability and for PvP it'll make specs like Taugrim's even better with the free interrupt.

 

Tactics isn't a tree that I've played much, but that seems to be getting some love too.

 

Vanguard is already a strong class in PvE and if anything this makes it slightly stronger than it was.

 

Besides... at least we won't have to learn a completely new playstyle *peers over at the sorcerer/sage forums*

[renatow]

100% agree with the OP, already considering not to resub and thanking God for GW2

[va_wanderer]

Yeah, I don't think its a spit in face. Sure, our lucky burst is going to go away (as Assault), but this, in theory, should give us a more reasonable and consistent DPS. But I am curious as to how much this will effect us. I feel like HiB every 6 seconds is a bit too harsh, and frankly, may make the specc a bit too boring and mechanical to play. Not to mention its our main ammo regeneration/heat venting system, which is really going to strain our rotation. It's bad enough Incendiary Round/Missile is so expensive.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised we didn't see any Assault Plastique changes, as its currently a theoretical DPS loss to even have. The only bonus is its range.

 

6 seconds really isn't that bad if the odds for a proc have increased significantly, though it flattens our DPS spikes considerably.

 

What ARE the new odds for Accelerator to go off on the PTR, anyway? If I'm getting like 75% for a fully talented Accelerator off SS and 50% off Ion Pulse, I may not be crying much here at all and simply cycling Pulse Cannon into my rotation between HIB's when I can't force another HIB shot immediately. It's mainly a slap in the face for hybrid types.

 

And far as that goes, they could have just had plasma cell increase the odds of Accelerator and decreased Accelerator's odds from the talent alone. It'd have left stuff like Parakeet alive.

 

My suggestion? Comment on the PTR boards as well. I'm annoyed that they don't have a character-copy option yet...

[va_wanderer]

People over on the BH board are saying Ionic Accelerator procs are up to 45% on Ion Pulse and 60% on ShockStrike, i.e. you'll get to use HiB every 9 secs on average and still have to spam Ion Pulse/SS frantically to get even that.

 

Sad face.

 

Doesn't sound bad at all. That's good odds of getting a proc every time you slap something with an IP/SS cycle. It's 50% better for Ion Pulse to proc, 33% better for Stockstrike.

 

Just have to think what I put in my rotation while Accelerator is cooling down. Pulse Cannon, maybe?

[Hizoka]

good old baddies of MMOs, they see changes as the death of the game. Go play a FPS if you never want to see anything change, better yet learn how to use skill to play rather then an OP crutch ability. Edited March 17, 2012 by Hizoka

[King]

6 seconds really isn't that bad if the odds for a proc have increased significantly, though it flattens our DPS spikes considerably.

 

What ARE the new odds for Accelerator to go off on the PTR, anyway? If I'm getting like 75% for a fully talented Accelerator off SS and 50% off Ion Pulse, I may not be crying much here at all and simply cycling Pulse Cannon into my rotation between HIB's when I can't force another HIB shot immediately. It's mainly a slap in the face for hybrid types.

 

And far as that goes, they could have just had plasma cell increase the odds of Accelerator and decreased Accelerator's odds from the talent alone. It'd have left stuff like Parakeet alive.

 

My suggestion? Comment on the PTR boards as well. I'm annoyed that they don't have a character-copy option yet...

 

 

This is part of the issue, is named specs like parakeet, and iron fist. I went off on a rant months ago on tautgrims post saying that he was going to ruin the class by posting flavor of the month specs, so I decided to come up with another hybrid and gave hint that I had found something better than the IF but of course someone else comes around and has to post a complete FOTM spec and name it, so that they are famous!?!?!? for a couple hours. Just do not understand why people need to give away specs, teach people about the class and what is viable. Do not hand people a spec that they won't know how to play. But since we were busy on our forums patting eachothers back and saying how great we were, we get the nerf stick , when on the Knight forums all they do is complain (which is partly because it is a class that takes skill to play, and people think that the classes are bad when they are in fact the ones who are bad) and they get the increase to all 3 of their specs, which may I say a good sentinel could use all 3 of those specs and out damage any spec vanguard.

 

Keep in mind sweep is not all they have, they have more cool downs than tanks. They have a stealth, which was buffed, guarded by the force, saber ward. Oh yea they can fricking heal themselves, heal the group, increase the groups damage, increase the groups run speed and defense. How is this not an incredibly OP class. In my Hybrid spec running Ion cell, where I could achieve 5k hits consistently, I could not take down a skilled sentinel one on one and now the fix to this is to make them more viable, while taking away the creative hybrid specs we were able to make.

 

BW says they want full tree advanced class to be the only viable classes (WHY!!!!??????) yet Vanguard does not have one viable full specced class, that does not get destroyed by every other profession. I think BW should allow us to respec to other classes period, I would love to take my vanguard, sentinel. I would even get all the gear again because frankly all the Battlemaster gear I spent getting was based on a couple hybrid specs, so they are now worthless. I will say it again, you cannot let people put tons of time into studying their class and acquiring gear only to completely change it, these changes have to come before the game goes live or not all at once. Some indication should have been given. I feel like 2 months of played time that has gone into preparing for ranked pvp is all a waste. I play the game primarily for pvp so when I heard ranked pvp we had started forming groups in our guild, even went through a large merger as to have a larger pool of people to draw from. But now we cannot even prepare because every class will be different when it starts. 1.2 is not only a spit in the face of vanguards but also those of us who got early access and stuck with the game since beta never faltering. So disappointing to see this happen when I was so excited for what they advertised 1.2 would be in the videos.

[Jinook_Phi]

Im about to take on all the Sent haters who obviously, regardless of what they will write in response, have never leveled a Focus specced Sent- I have. But before I do, onto my Trooper.

 

I have have two toons that are "pure" to one tree, my Focus specc'd Sent and my Arsenal specc'd BH. Just for enjoyment of play and also to add to the story piece of the upcoming Legacy, I added two hybrids- a Parakeet Trooper- that I am having a blast with and an AOE specialist Smuggler, also lots of fun. Obviously, I am going to need to re-think my Parakeet. Any other Parakeets out there already thinking of what another hybrid might look like? Its a fun, or was a fun hybrid.

 

Ok, for all the wanna be Focus Sents, saying such things as it was the worst class or going the other way, saying we'll be God's once the patch comes out, then citing things that just are from la-la land, not at all based on fact. So lets look at the facts, shall we?

 

-There has been a small portion of Focus Sents that have wanted a more simplified version of playing a Sent. Luckily, 1.2 wont dummy down a rather nuanced class to play. Most the Sents that are not trolls confront the ones that complain, trying to help them better learn how to play the class. That is what in fact happens and anyone worth their salt as a Sent, has said the same.

 

-We have never been the "worst" class, but we are not for everybody, its a tough class to master, much like the game of golf- the variables are constantly changing. Especially Levels 8- the late 20's, it can be dirt nap city for some that dont get right away, the mechanics and how they work. There is no specific "ideal" rotation, you have to know what to use in what situation.

 

-I popped my first 2500+ crit in my late 30's, my first 3000+ crit in my early 40's and almost broke the 4K mark by mid 40's; not exactly worst level numbers. But there are a lot variables to getting those kinds of results, from Focus management, how you spec, properly setting up your sweeps (like dont use Force Exhaustion and Stasis too close together, or you throw away a crit proc), so on and so forth.

 

-By mid 40's I could chew through multiple golds, multiple silvers and cut through adds like melted butter- but again, Ive studied my craft. Where are are weak and are meant to be weak (Sent Focus is an AOE Crit powerhouse) is against strong bosses and such, one on one. That gets better with time, but unless we're in a raid, thats not what we do.

 

-No way to tell until I see the new trees, but the key thing is the granting of 2 stacks of singularity comes from losing them as they are now a requirement to spark Zen (which I almost never used before as a Focus spec), so its a refund of the cost. The other piece to that could go any number of ways, no way to know until I play it after a respec, but at most it would grant 3/4 (I am guessing, from what I see) more of a "chance" for one more sweep, maybe, if perfectly timed. Remember, just because you have 4 on Singularity does not mean your sweep is off CD to use it and those cool down rates have not changed. Focus Sents eat up focus and about 20% of the time you end up (on any lengthy battle) in a dead zone where EVERYTHING but their base attack is on CD, everything! I suspect thats why Kick and Pacify no longer cost focus, but even so, we still have to wait for those to come off CD, focus pts or not.

 

-Finally, what in the heck do the changes with Focus Sent have to do with Trooper/Vanguard issues anyways? Like, at all?

 

 

Please know about that which you speak and please wait until something is actually launched before predicting a class, any class, will become God like.

 

Ok, enough of that. Any fellow Parakeets have any new ideas?

 

Peace-

Jin

Edited March 17, 2012 by Jinook_Phi

[Fdzzaigl]

I don't get the buffs to sentinels / mara's either. They sure didn't need them if they were half decent.

 

But Vanguards aren't treated that badly, except for killing hybrid specs (which seems like a constant throughout the patchnotes).

 

I see the removal of the GCD on energy blast / smoke grenade as a very good thing (not using energy blast for DPS anyhow) and I'm looking forward to the effects of the stacking absorb buff.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Rotm]

Whats even the point of Ionic Accelerator now. They might as well just make it flat CD reduction on bolt if its going to average out at 9 sec per shot(6sec internal 2 gcds average per proc), or ditch SS on it and make pulse 100% chance.

 

It comes out as a flat nerf considering the old 30% no internal cd refreshed bolt about every 3gcds, and it buffs up the burst people complained about by raising the chance of back to back bolts in the opening rotation.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Rotm

[The_FLIPmode]

good old baddies of MMOs, they see changes as the death of the game. Go play a FPS if you never want to see anything change, better yet learn how to use skill to play rather then an OP crutch ability.

 

These changes are pretty significant to Vanguards, because they nerf the best features of any build that uses the Ionic Accelerator.

[King]

I don't get the buffs to sentinels / mara's either. They sure didn't need them if they were half decent.

 

But Vanguards aren't treated that badly, except for killing hybrid specs (which seems like a constant throughout the patchnotes).

 

I see the removal of the GCD on energy blast / smoke grenade as a very good thing (not using energy blast for DPS anyhow) and I'm looking forward to the effects of the stacking absorb buff.

 

They are still not fixing shielding's viability in PVP, so absorb is irrelevant. Not only Hybrid spec but SS is still irrelevant as a full tree, they took away AS viability as a full tree even though assault plastique was already a waste. Tactics was the worst IMO to start with and got a pathetic gain for a buff.

 

According to the patch notes not much is being changed in tactics other than we get a snare correct?? but if we were going to play the viable hybrid with Ion cell we could already get a snare through Neural Overload. Lets face it Plasma cell and High energy cell are a joke, and what they are doing in 1.2 is forcing us to use them without changing them.

 

Can anyone link Parakeet, I am unfamiliar with what it is exactly.

[Rotm]

Plasma Cell would be a lot better if it worked properly and we could get immediate damage off the proc on every Ion Pulse use like Powertechs. It can hit hard when it crits with assault trooper. HEC is indeed garbage however.

[grandmasterub]

According to the patch notes not much is being changed in tactics other than we get a snare correct??

 

Can anyone link Parakeet, I am unfamiliar with what it is exactly.

 

parakeet is iron fist with points in assault instead of tactics (basically).

 

you run ion cell. get both storm and ionic accelerator.

 

 

Also. They're making it easier to proc combat tactics so autocrit HiBs will happen more often. Its a minor dps boost at best. The real improvement to tactics is the reduced cost on riot strike. The IronFist build is going to be beastmode. Especially since the way tactics is designed theres no real way for them to nerf that particular hybrid without completely redesigning the tree.

Edited March 17, 2012 by grandmasterub

[King]

parakeet is iron fist with points in assault instead of tactics (basically).

 

you run ion cell. get both storm and ionic accelerator.

 

Ok not bad, though it is refreshing to hear that it was not the same as the spec that I was running. But just shows how many hybrids they have derailed and all for the sake of being a game that has no hybrids. If they did not want hybrids, why even make the tree system, why not just create 3 different classes with one tree???

[J_McSkill]

I'm a Carolina Parakeet fan.... spent a lot of time grinding my BM set of Eliminator which is only good for the 4 piece HIB crit buff and will be useless after 1.2 ... I've never complained about this game but now I just feel defeated and will unsub if this makes it to live servers... I don't expect anyone to care and I'm not trying to QQ but simply stating how I feel... Why pigeon hole people into "pure" builds??? I love creative hybrid builds but its seems I'm not allowed to play them......