Darthater asks BW about engine optimization.

[Derfmiolleh]

Yep, FPS counter and screenshot in Alderaan Civil War during a large team fight. Thanks.

 

Like a dream. Good day.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Derfmiolleh

[Jederix]

This. I want to see ANYONE prove that the inventory "hiccup" does not exist for us all.

 

Truthfully, I don't care if it does it for you. It doesn't for me.

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

To be honest, If my fps is atleast 30, I'm happy as I used to play console a lot. I just started pc gaming not too long ago so I don't know wonders of 30+ fps but when I get atleast that, I'm happy.

[Kourage]

Truthfully, I don't care if it does it for you. It doesn't for me.

 

this

[Crossbwnz]

Like a dream. Good day.

 

Yep. Nice Screenshot.

 

Proves my point. Do you even know how to turn on the in game FPS counter?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Crossbwnz

[Drewser]

dont want to sound like a jerk but why do you care about that little hitch? if you are running around opening character/inventory screen,you are probably not in a major combat situation where high fps matters.So why do you care when your on the fleet or w/e if it slightly lags when opening those? not like its gamebreaking or anything.they will fix it in time but ,imo,they have a lot more important things to fix than that.

 

I would like to know if it is actually a global issue or an individual system issue.

 

I said earlier, it is certainly not game breaking and I wasn't even aware of it until this thread.

[Rikeryo]

remember, this thread is about

 

having fps issues in warzones although your rig meets/exceeds the recommended specs and you can play EVERY other game flawlessly.

[savagepotato]

Truthfully, I don't care if it does it for you. It doesn't for me.

 

And no one cares whether you care.

 

They are looking for Bioware to care and, to treat their customers with some respect rather than insulting their intelligence.

[zebrawizard]

the engine isnt optimised very well, in my case too

 

There seems to be memory leak issues, in cases where alot of people arrive the framerate drops to a crawl, ive never had this since i played wow 4 years ago with 1 gig ram. but as soon as i log back in the issue has cleared up somewhat and its playable.

 

when playing in an area for too long, framerates drop and loading takes even longer than before.

 

so im guessing there are some memory issues.

[Technohic]

Wow. This makes me glad I decided to put off getting a new laptop as I have a 5-6 year old XPS M1530 that could barely run the first Crysis on high and I have had better than 10 FPS easily. I actually very seldom have some chopping, but if I look down to the bottom right, it usually is where I am getting a connection speed drop; which is odd because I have speed tested while it was happening and was getting about 15 down and 4+ up. The issues I had before of often losing mouse function or what appeared to be memory leaks and the game crashing, have been fixed for at least a month now I think.

 

Maybe it has something to do with newer computer specs.

[savagepotato]

Wow. This makes me glad I decided to put off getting a new laptop as I have a 5-6 year old XPS M1530 that could barely run the first Crysis on high and I have had better than 10 FPS easily. I actually very seldom have some chopping, but if I look down to the bottom right, it usually is where I am getting a connection speed drop; which is odd because I have speed tested while it was happening and was getting about 15 down and 4+ up. The issues I had before of often losing mouse function or what appeared to be memory leaks and the game crashing, have been fixed for at least a month now I think.

 

Maybe it has something to do with newer computer specs.

 

If you are getting latency issues one thing you might consider trying rather than testing your download speed while you are having issues is to check whether you are losing packets.

 

Do a ping test while you are having issues. Somewhere I saw a dev tracker post at some point which posted some testing addresses people could ping and traceroute to.

[BurningDT]

remember, this thread is about

 

having fps issues in warzones although your rig meets/exceeds the recommended specs and you can play EVERY other game flawlessly.

 

This. Why are all these people here just to say their computer is fine?

 

Congrats?

 

Some of us are having legitimate issues with more than adequate PCs. My computer hanles every single other game on high/ultra in full PvP sessions.

 

But I drop to below 10 FPS on the absolute lowest settings in battles on Alderaan, so like I asked earlier in the thread, if it is on my end what am I doing wrong?

 

Freshly formmated, all drivers are up to date.

 

AMD HD 6870 2 gigs, Quad Core 2.1(2.7 overclocked) Processor, 8 gigs of 1600mhz ram.

[Technohic]

If you are getting latency issues one thing you might consider trying rather than testing your download speed while you are having issues is to check whether you are losing packets.

 

Do a ping test while you are having issues. Somewhere I saw a dev tracker post at some point which posted some testing addresses people could ping and traceroute to.

 

Yeah, it just doesn't happen all that often enough for me to be concerned.

[Kurfer]

I don't know anyone who does. Anecdotal evidence is fun!

 

You are not telling the truth, the lag when inventory opens is an engine limitation...not a PC problem.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Sejia
insult

[Kurfer]

Settings and memory access (and OS).

 

If Windows has pre-cached your game you won't see the hitching when opening UI elements, if it hasn't, it's hard fault to disk access. If you have an SSD, but its improperly configured, or if you have other disk access at the same time it will again, hard pause and wait. If you're running chrome/firefox/opera with SWTOR on decent settings and only have 4 gigs of ram, guess what, you have a lot of stuff in memory which will cause problems. An SSD in the wrong mode, with the wrong settings in windows or with the wrong firmware will also cause persistent hitching. SWTOR is really big.

 

It's sort of an engine problem, and sort of not. Ideally the engine programmers should know how to pre-fetch stuff on their own. The problem is that the game is already creeping up to a 2GB memory limit and it will just barf on a 32 bit OS if it does more than that, or if it can't find enough ram. How much should you pre-fetch? Well if you have low settings (really low settings for example, especially textures) then windows or the engine will have more memory to cache into main memory (i.e. RAM) and less hitching.

 

 

Something like crysis is a nonsense comparison. They have completely different performance profiles. The problem with something like SWTOR is that you have this hugely diverse collection of stuff that could show up on your screen at any time (every character, in every suit of armour). In crysis the programmer knows in advance exactly what can ever be on your screen and when.

 

 

Hero engine is really a content creation system. For example, the game is probably written in heroscript mostly (aka the Hero Scripting language). It's a fully OO language, but it runs on top of the Hero engine, I don't think it's compiled to bytecode directly. That's not a bad thing particularly, but it makes optimization inherently harder because the 'engine' isn't aware of what HSL code is going to do until it runs it.

 

Because of hero engine SWTOR can be really really big. But that means it will behave completely differently than most other games. You could try comparing to WoW, but the conversation system (specifically how jars you into a higher resolution view of yourself and a face close up) completely changes how the engine can perform. That, believe it or not, is a huge 'storytelling' idea, but a disastrously bad performance one, and theres probably no easy way to fix it.

 

It's also and online game, and they might be phoning home for a lot of things which don't necessarily need to phone home for. E.g. finding cover is a slow process because it has to query the server if it can go, and then go, rather than take cover, where you just tell the server you're taking cover here. You can actually watch the two, if you don't have a smuggler or agent, make one just to see the difference, that highlights just how the 'ask the server' causes hitching effects, and someone with a different latency connection to their server or who just happens to be on lower load times than you will experience completely different performance.

 

These days technically I'm an AI programmer, but have been an engine programmer. There are lots of things that could probably be improved in the hero engine as used in SWTOR, but without server monitoring tools it's hard to know where problems are.

 

This couldn't be anymore false.

[NRieh]

You know, things may be different from what they seem to be. I'm sure that most of people with high-end configs tell truth about their problems. Though, I'm same sure that at least part of those just think, that if they got pc with high numbers they don't need to manage and optimize it anymore (that's nothing personal to anyone).

 

But I do may confirm that things change with patches. When I installed TOR on 04.01.12 it was much like slideshow. And we even did not have any "official" AA at that time (it's not that current one rocks, but still..). I had a slideshow on my laptop (acer aspire 5930g, 3yrs ago it was considered something relatively close to "high-end"). Even on low res. It's just on low-res it was a low-res slideshow. 15fps was like a dream, no matter which settings were used.

 

Now I'm running with all maxed and shadows off. 25 is my regular number, sometimes have 30+. Including WZs(well, there it's more like 20, honestly). It's not brilliant, I know, I'd love to get about 40+. But I also know what am I playing on. All "tweaks" I did were turning off vista's effects and shutting opera before opening launcher. And also a great way of boosting fps for a laptop - take out coolers\radiators and clean them thoroughly, at least - once per two weeks. Sounds funny? But works nice.

 

Once again, I'm not saying all top-PC users write b.s., just because I did not get same problems. But problem IS that problem (as it is) is hard to be reproduced, and (therefore) solved. I know some who get 80+ on high, I also know some who get 10+ on low, sometimes their configs do not vary greatly.

 

I'm not BW\SW fangirl, but I do understand, that things like that depend on hell many variables, most of which ARE cilent-side (hard, soft, system settings, how often laptop\pc is cleaned, how well cooling system performs - etc).

[DigitalPrime]

You know, things may be different from what they seem to be. I'm sure that most of people with high-end configs tell truth about their problems. Though, I'm same sure that at least part of those just think, that if they got pc with high numbers they don't need to manage and optimize it anymore (that's nothing personal to anyone).

 

But I do may confirm that things change with patches. When I installed TOR on 04.01.12 it was much like slideshow. And we even did not have any "official" AA at that time (it's not that current one rocks, but still..). I had a slideshow on my laptop (acer aspire 5930g, 3yrs ago it was considered something relatively close to "high-end"). Even on low res. It's just on low-res it was a low-res slideshow. 15fps was like a dream, no matter which settings were used.

 

Now I'm running with all maxed and shadows off. 25 is my regular number, sometimes have 30+. Including WZs(well, there it's more like 20, honestly). It's not brilliant, I know, I'd love to get about 40+. But I also know what am I playing on. All "tweaks" I did were turning off vista's effects and shutting opera before opening launcher. And also a great way of boosting fps for a laptop - take out coolers\radiators and clean them thoroughly, at least - once per two weeks. Sounds funny? But works nice.

 

Once again, I'm not saying all top-PC users write b.s., just because I did not get same problems. But problem IS that problem (as it is) is hard to be reproduced, and (therefore) solved. I know some who get 80+ on high, I also know some who get 10+ on low, sometimes their configs do not vary greatly.

 

I'm not BW\SW fangirl, but I do understand, that things like that depend on hell many variables, most of which ARE cilent-side (hard, soft, system settings, how often laptop\pc is cleaned, how well cooling system performs - etc).

 

The stuff you have talked about can be true. But these things you mention would effect all play, usage. Not just one game. A 7970 with the latest drivers needs no tweaking, An i7 2700k needs no tweaking. Motherboard drivers, Asrock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 needs no tweaking for these games. Aslong as systems like this have all the latest drivers, no issues with malware or viruses. Updated op systems etc. This game should run flawlessly. Enthusiasts like myself have been building PCs most of our youths. me, from the 386 days. But the fact of the matter is this game doesnt run as it should. trying to give basic advise to maintaine a low end system is all well and good. but high end systems. little tweaks are not needed in these type of games. Or should i say, they should not be needed, hence why we buy the top of the range gear. But when its the engine, no amount of tweaks help. tweaking graphics card is to put less strain on a low end card as it cant handle all the bells and whistles. With a 500+ card in a game like this. No tweaking should be needed, esspecially when it comes to turning down graphics.

Edited March 15, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[Dayln]

My equipment is all stock, nothing over clocked, nothing special

 

My wifes laptop is all stock ( but fairly high end )

 

No issues.

 

I don’t expect Bioware to investigate everyone’s individual computer to tell you what is wrong with your equipment or internet or network connection.

[Liberate]

i7 processor, I get 30 - 40fps. 550TI Graphics card

[DigitalPrime]

My equipment is all stock, nothing over clocked, nothing special

 

My wifes laptop is all stock ( but fairly high end )

 

No issues.

 

I don’t expect Bioware to investigate everyone’s individual computer to tell you what is wrong with your equipment or internet or network connection.

 

Maybe give some details

 

By the way, this thread is not to investigate our PCs as thats not needed, but its to investigate the engine. Many sites have reported on this. Even darthhater. So unless you can give details on how your PC runs in what situation. Ilum ops vs ops. what FPS do you get, this would be a start. All info is helpful on this matter. Maybe post a few screenies of ilum in a massive battle showing the fps counter.

Edited March 15, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[Ruuprect]

Maybe give some details

 

By the way, this thread is not to investigate our PCs as thats not needed, but its to investigate the engine. Many sites have reported on this. Even darthhater. So unless you can give details on how your PC runs in what situation. Ilum ops vs ops. what FPS do you get, this would be a start. All info is helpful on this matter. Maybe post a few screenies of ilum in a massive battle showing the fps counter.

 

I have an 15-2500k - 8 gigs memory - GTX460.

 

I regularly get 30+ FPS in WZ's, 60+ everywhere else except fleet.

 

Ilum - LOL - in a big battle with 20+ ppl there <10 fps.

 

That is not a computer problem, that is an engine problem.

 

Anyone that says Ilum works in big battles with no problems is lying. If we have a huge battle 40+ ppl there, numerous ppl in the ops will be disconnected.

[Jederix]

You are not telling the truth, the lag when inventory opens is an engine limitation...not a PC problem.

 

Then why is not everyone seeing it? If it is an engine limitation, doesn't it stand to reason that the issue would be happening to everyone?

 

And it's a split second if it happens at all. If you have a 15 sec delay or something, then you might have a legitimate concern. If it hitches for a split second when you open it and you consider that a game breaking problem, I'd hate to see how you react to a real game breaking problem.

[Dee-Jay]

Then why does my laptop run fine in Alderaan?

 

Because something is wrong with the engine. Just because you're not affected doesn't mean it's not a problem.

 

Based on personal experience ingame and on these forums I'd estimate anywhere between 30 and 50% of the player base have performance issues, especially in PvP, not including Ilum (which is a cluster**** for everyone afaik).

[Rikeryo]

When intelligence, and not hyperbolic grandstanding, actually starts taking place, you might have a point.

 

And I don't care that you don't care, belive it or not. So your first sentence means absolutely dick.

 

you're 36 years old? really?

[Jederix]

you're 36 years old? really?

 

Went and looked at my post history, did ya? Kudos. I guess.