Augmentation Slots 1.2 ?

[DarthDegwerks]

People are saying that having a separate item to add an augment slot removes people's incentives to create crit-crafted oranges. To which I reply: So? It's not like there's CURRENTLY a reason to crit-craft oranges, so it's not like you're losing anything.

 

The only thing that would change is that you wouldn't need to throw away 9 non-crits for every 1 crit that you got. Think of it as a nice little 'hey, now I don't have to spend extra materials to give this piece an augment slot' bonus. It also solves the issue of how to deal with mission reward/random drop/social oranges. Everybody wins!

 

Because your way of thinking totally kicks crafters in the teeth. Crafters as whole have spent lots of time and money since launch on making things and collecting schematics, to only have their stuff not worth anything at end game. Now our stuff is going to be sought after and we will be looked for.

 

You're opinion on "So, it's not like you're losing anything" is basically saying "Screw you crafters". We were told by the devs we were getting this and we rejoiced. Its finally time we got some love. Your idea of just making an 'item' to Augment anything means anyone can power level a crew skill on an alt to whatever level of skill points needed to make an Augment device and the crafters in game since launch are kinda hosed. Then most of the player base won't need us at all and go get the mission reward gear/drops/social item gear and have an alt craft/buy from GTN your "Augment Device".

 

Sure we could make the device but so could anyone. We get nothing but that and the ability to make augments for it. There would be a lot less need for us to actually make Armor/Weapons and instead an increase in need to make the same thing over and over again.

 

The way the Devs have it now is fine and it will utilize all the time and effort we have put into collecting the whole set of orange schematics. Sure we will have a loss on items crafted that don't crit, but it will place a value on the ones that do crit.

 

I would like to see a way to Retro-Fit an augement on gear or at least find a way to get the schematic to make the items, so we can at least try to crit craft an augment on them though. If they do Retro-Fitting it needs to be only on drops and not mission rewards or bought from vendor items.

[swliner]

Because your way of thinking totally kicks crafters in the teeth. Crafters as whole have spent lots of time and money since launch on making things and collecting schematics, to only have their stuff not worth anything at end game. Now our stuff is going to be sought after and we will be looked for.

With all due respect, last I checked, no one forces you to sink time or money into crafting professions. I understand that you did, and should be able to get SOMETHING out of it, and look, now oranges are useful at end game! And making the augment item be a level 400 gives you a nice boost that you can't just swap over to when you're bored. But beyond that?

Again, not trying to be confrontational, but you knew what you were getting. If you spent tons of credits even after hitting level cap and seeing nothing useful, well then obviously it was worth it to you, even without this change.

 

You're opinion on "So, it's not like you're losing anything" is basically saying "Screw you crafters". We were told by the devs we were getting this and we rejoiced. Its finally time we got some love. Your idea of just making an 'item' to Augment anything means anyone can power level a crew skill on an alt to whatever level of skill points needed to make an Augment device and the crafters in game since launch are kinda hosed. Then most of the player base won't need us at all and go get the mission reward gear/drops/social item gear and have an alt craft/buy from GTN your "Augment Device".

Yes, it's less than you were told, but it's still more than you have. Heck, it's more than was even hinted at when the game was launched and you decided to become and stay a crafter. It's like saying "I only won 100 bucks in the lottery instead of $300 million." As for the free rider problem, there's nothing stopping people from doing that with the current proposal. There are orange items that you can get as early as your teens, if someone's going to level an alt to get around you there's nothing you can do to stop them.

 

The way the Devs have it now is fine and it will utilize all the time and effort we have put into collecting the whole set of orange schematics. Sure we will have a loss on items crafted that don't crit, but it will place a value on the ones that do crit.

Are you really any better off if, instead of selling normal oranges for X, you can instead sell a crit-crafted orange for 10X and normal oranges for 0? If you have as diverse a selection of recipes as you imply, then use it! Not everyone's going to want the same set, make all the different types of orange that you can and sell to any portion of the market instead of just part of it. And they'll buy it because even with a separate augment item ORANGES ARE USEFUL AT END GAME NOW.

Edited March 20, 2012 by swliner

[Ewgal]

The problem with the logic is that the only people who will benefit from crit orange being BiS are guilds doing ops hard modes on a regular basis and who likely also have crafters within them to make the crit orange gear also. The idea that this is going to boost trade market viability of non-ops hard mode player crafters is a fantasy. Its also not even clear from bioware if their idea of BiS by crafting crit orange is just a slight incremental stat increase over PvP or PvE tier gear, if it were significant it would also be game breaking, especially in PvP. Edited March 20, 2012 by Ewgal

[Prime_Knight]

With Game Update 1.2, we will enable the creation of augment slotted items through various crafting professions.

 

You will not be able to retrofit existing items with augment slots, but this is something we're discussing internally as 'we probably want to add this', so any of your feedback is worthwhile to us. If/when we offer that option, it will be added in a way that does not devalue the crafter community.

 

Regarding augments in general, we are NOT increasing the power level of augments. The current top level augments in the game will, for 1.2. at least, remain the most powerful augments in the game. Reverse engineering for augments will be added as well (for the appropriate professions), so any augments already obtained before 1.2. should retain their value.

 

I've been wearing the same orange robe since Coruscant, because I like the look. I would like to have the option to add augments to this particular item. Please allow augmenting orange items we currently have in the future. Thank you kindly.

[DarthDegwerks]

Yes. It makes you feel you have made an accomplishment to have that one piece worth more than others.

 

Your ideas are not giving crafters what they've been after since they took their crew skills.

Instead they are favoring non-armorers/weaponsmiths. We took those classes because we wanted to make Armor/Weapons. We've been able to make some money for outfitting peoples alts/companions. Have we made tons of cash being Biochem/Artifice/Cybertech? No.

 

Now we have a chance to feel important at endgame and make money doing it, while still making the items we chose the crew skill for in the first place. Don't rain on our parade man.

[jmarFTL]

At least it is good to hear you are discussing this as something you'd like to add.

 

I have mentioned this in the past, and I believe that you guys should add something like this:

 

 

Augmentation Device

Consumable

This device can be used to craft a single Augment slot onto an item. Consumed on use.

 

 

This in response to the upcoming changes where crit-crafted custom items would gain an Augment slot. While this is great, it would again shoe-horn people into a very limited selection of looks if they want to have 'best in slot' items for endgame and not only completely devalue their carefully amassed pieces of gear in order to look unique; but also every piece of custom gear that can be obtained through drops and from specialty/commendation vendors, as well as the new and upcoming endgame PvE/PvP gear.

 

Just when BioWare wanted to open up the Armoring slots and such so people could place them into their favorite gear; they again fall back to the same limitations and create the same problem of the 'clone syndrome' all over again.

 

The Augmentation Device could be created by certain Crew Skills (making these Crew Skills more worthwhile to get), works as a consumable and would apply a single augment slot to a piece of armor by the person that uses it.

 

With just this small change you not only increase the relevance of Augments by 100%, but it also provides the means for other people to put Augment slots onto their existing gear that has no augment (which is every single item dropped by random mobs and endgame gear). Lastly, it would level the field for everyone and allow people to craft Augment slots onto their favorite gear (my Jedi Battlelord set comes to mind for me personally).

 

The Augmentation Device would instantly increase the revenue of Augments and accompanying Crew Skills that can obtain/craft Augments and the Crew Skill(s) that could craft Augmentation Devices and allow for everyone to look how they want to look without being forced to look like a clone (again).

 

Also, the Augmentation Device would not diminish the overall value of crit-crafted Custom gear as people could still choose between buying the higher priced crit-crafted item or their regular counterpart (often made by the same person) and buy a separate Augmentation Device to achieve the same result.

 

Lastly, the mechanics for such a device are already in place as people responded that a similar item was already in Beta, but removed when the game went Live.

 

• And before the Synthweavers/Armormechs come along complaining that it would still diminish their precious and rare crit-crafted items; ask yourself this: What do you do with all those regular crafted items you made before you got lucky and crit-crafted one?
   
  
• So instead of asking, say, 250k for a crit-crafted piece but seeing no sales at all for your (wasted) 50k regular versions that nobody cares about; with Augmentation Device consumables you could sell both the regular versions at 50k and the crit-crafted versions at 75k (imaginary values just for the sake of comparison); resulting into a better overall net yield by being able to sell both your regular items and the crit-crafted ones.
   
  
• I know you're now going to tell me that it would be unfair regarding the number of custom gear that can drop in Flashpoints/mobs or purchased from Specialty/Commendation vendors; which would make you 'miss out' on potential customers. Not so when you can also make an Augmentation Device. That way people can be allowed the choice of purchasing new gear with an augment slot (crafted by you), or retrofit existing gear with an Augmentation Device (also crafted by you).
  

 

 

Bioware, please listen to this man. 1.2 is such a step in the right direction. But you're really throwing away TONS of orange gear if you don't allow us to add augment slots to them. I understand the desire to make crafters important. But having them able to make these augment consumables would do just that, in addition to all the unique appearances they'll be able to make (which will still have tons of value).

 

There's no reason to restrict what people want to wear, I think you already learned that lesson. This is a great compromise that will lead to extremely varied armor appearances and very happy players.

[Ewgal]

 

Now we have a chance to feel important at endgame and make money doing it, while still making the items we chose the crew skill for in the first place. Don't rain on our parade man.

 

This just isn't going to happen. You will just get a ton of folks re-specing crew skills to the latest flavour of the month and the market will be flooded with crit orange gear overnight. Since it isn't a consumable their isn't a constant supply-demand cycle in the way their are for say Biochem products, so market will also collapse overnight. Most guilds will probably craft internally also if it is worth the effort. this isn't empowerment of crafters at all. Just the usual crazy Bioware stuff.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Ewgal

[swliner]

Yes. It makes you feel you have made an accomplishment to have that one piece worth more than others.

I think you're vastly overestimating how much crit crafted gear will go for. Just remember that you can make orange items at level 10 that use lvl 1 or 2 materials. If the price got much beyond 10s of thousands of credits he hardcore min-maxers are going to just take an afternoon to level up an alt and make it themselves. The higher prices will go to items that actually look good and with my plan THAT DOESN'T CHANGE.

Your ideas are not giving crafters what they've been after since they took their crew skills.

Instead they are favoring non-armorers/weaponsmiths. We took those classes because we wanted to make Armor/Weapons. We've been able to make some money for outfitting peoples alts/companions. Have we made tons of cash being Biochem/Artifice/Cybertech? No.

 

Now we have a chance to feel important at endgame and make money doing it, while still making the items we chose the crew skill for in the first place. Don't rain on our parade man.

Explain to me how my proposal prevents you from making armor/weapons for end game consumption? Like I said, the very fact that oranges are relevant at end game gives you a reason to stay in the profession, and that's not even touching on the ability to make your own copies of tiered raid gear. You want crit-crafts to be worth something? Fine, make the Augment Item use lots of expensive components. Bam, now the crit craft orange price = regular orange price + augment item price. You win by being able to sell stuff to end gamers, end gamers win just by being able to have augmented stuff, and fluffy players of both types win by being able to use whatever armor they think looks best on them.

Edited March 20, 2012 by swliner

[Ewgal]

I was just thinking of re-specing my alt to it. I am guessing most players will cover wha they need this way too. You might say that ruins crafting for the little guy, but that is the problem when most players have multi-alts in-game now. Bioware just plain don't understand mmo in-game economics. If the crafting is easily accessible to the casual play then it will have little intrinsic worth since anyone or their alt can do it too. Bioware would be better off promising crafters suction for 1.2. Edited March 20, 2012 by Ewgal

[Skizzik]

Crit Crafted gear is BS. Down with RNG!

[aedan]

 

You will not be able to retrofit existing items with augment slots, but this is something we're discussing internally as 'we probably want to add this', so any of your feedback is worthwhile to us. If/when we offer that option, it will be added in a way that does not devalue the crafter community.

.

 

I'm on a RP server. My main is a Power tech tank so i'll probably pick up some crit orange gear and add augments, to make my gear setup better. I think all the armor looks pretty damn atrociousness so it won't matter what it looks like.

 

Unfortunately my Sorcerer will not be utilizing the new system. Until we are able to place augments on current gear. My sorcerer is the former slave of the lady of pain on tattoine and dresses like her. (translation she wears the imperial dancer outfit). but can't add augment slots to that.

[speedypetey]

Why are we catering to crafters anyway? Crafting should be an important part of the game but it's almost opposite to how things are now. Buff crafting YES buff crafting but why do something that COULD take out the need for new Ops gear. I am being VERy redundant here but please please please, add Augmentation slots that can be PUT on gear and consumed.

Ways you can do this and still make crafters very viable:

EX: Augment slot consumables can only be used for the type of armor the crafter made it for i.e. A Synth Augment consumable could only be used on Synth armor and you can only augment Synth Armor with a Synth Augment consumable.

[Dzhokhar]

Unfortunately my Sorcerer will not be utilizing the new system. Until we are able to place augments on current gear. My sorcerer is the former slave of the lady of pain on tattoine and dresses like her. (translation she wears the imperial dancer outfit). but can't add augment slots to that.

 

I like how you've concocted a RP justification for wearing the Imperial Dancer outfit...

[aedan]

I like how you've concocted a RP justification for wearing the Imperial Dancer outfit...

 

have you seen the Lady of Pain, she looks like a bad ***, i deleted a level 30 sorcerer to recreate in her image.

[Dalmyra]

My warrior is currently wearing the Ancient Paragon's Headgear which I like the look of and haven't seen many other players wearing. I'd like to be able to keep wearing this helm and the rest of the matching set, so it would be nice to be able to add an augment slot to it or at least be able to obtain a crafted helm with the same look with an augment slot.

[dnoisette]

At least it is good to hear you are discussing this as something you'd like to add.

 

I have mentioned this in the past, and I believe that you guys should add something like this:

 

 

Augmentation Device

Consumable

This device can be used to craft a single Augment slot onto an item. Consumed on use.

 

 

This in response to the upcoming changes where crit-crafted custom items would gain an Augment slot. While this is great, it would again shoe-horn people into a very limited selection of looks if they want to have 'best in slot' items for endgame and not only completely devalue their carefully amassed pieces of gear in order to look unique; but also every piece of custom gear that can be obtained through drops and from specialty/commendation vendors, as well as the new and upcoming endgame PvE/PvP gear.

 

Just when BioWare wanted to open up the Armoring slots and such so people could place them into their favorite gear; they again fall back to the same limitations and create the same problem of the 'clone syndrome' all over again.

 

The Augmentation Device could be created by certain Crew Skills (making these Crew Skills more worthwhile to get), works as a consumable and would apply a single augment slot to a piece of armor by the person that uses it.

 

With just this small change you not only increase the relevance of Augments by 100%, but it also provides the means for other people to put Augment slots onto their existing gear that has no augment (which is every single item dropped by random mobs and endgame gear). Lastly, it would level the field for everyone and allow people to craft Augment slots onto their favorite gear (my Jedi Battlelord set comes to mind for me personally).

 

The Augmentation Device would instantly increase the revenue of Augments and accompanying Crew Skills that can obtain/craft Augments and the Crew Skill(s) that could craft Augmentation Devices and allow for everyone to look how they want to look without being forced to look like a clone (again).

 

Also, the Augmentation Device would not diminish the overall value of crit-crafted Custom gear as people could still choose between buying the higher priced crit-crafted item or their regular counterpart (often made by the same person) and buy a separate Augmentation Device to achieve the same result.

 

Lastly, the mechanics for such a device are already in place as people responded that a similar item was already in Beta, but removed when the game went Live.

 

• And before the Synthweavers/Armormechs come along complaining that it would still diminish their precious and rare crit-crafted items; ask yourself this: What do you do with all those regular crafted items you made before you got lucky and crit-crafted one?
   
  
• So instead of asking, say, 250k for a crit-crafted piece but seeing no sales at all for your (wasted) 50k regular versions that nobody cares about; with Augmentation Device consumables you could sell both the regular versions at 50k and the crit-crafted versions at 75k (imaginary values just for the sake of comparison); resulting into a better overall net yield by being able to sell both your regular items and the crit-crafted ones.
   
  
• I know you're now going to tell me that it would be unfair regarding the number of custom gear that can drop in Flashpoints/mobs or purchased from Specialty/Commendation vendors; which would make you 'miss out' on potential customers. Not so when you can also make an Augmentation Device. That way people can be allowed the choice of purchasing new gear with an augment slot (crafted by you), or retrofit existing gear with an Augmentation Device (also crafted by you).
  

 

 

/signed

 

Seriously, this is probably the most concise, realistic and straight to the point post I have seen advocating for augment consumables. The OP perfectly summed up my state of mind and did present very good arguments in favor of this item. Please Bioware, for once, listen to those people here on the forum, they come up with great ideas !

 

EDIT : I didn't know about the augmentation device back from Beta time. That's another reason to implement it on live: it already exists !

Edited March 20, 2012 by dnoisette

[Paladan]

With Game Update 1.2, we will enable the creation of augment slotted items through various crafting professions.

 

You will not be able to retrofit existing items with augment slots, but this is something we're discussing internally as 'we probably want to add this', so any of your feedback is worthwhile to us. If/when we offer that option, it will be added in a way that does not devalue the crafter community.

 

Regarding augments in general, we are NOT increasing the power level of augments. The current top level augments in the game will, for 1.2. at least, remain the most powerful augments in the game. Reverse engineering for augments will be added as well (for the appropriate professions), so any augments already obtained before 1.2. should retain their value.

 

Dear Georg,

 

I mean no offense to the designers but have they forgotten that we are all paying for, and playing, STAR WARS the Old Republic and not WoW or some other dungeon oriented game? Most all of the current and upcoming end game armor looks horrible and certainly not appropriate for a STAR WARS oriented game!! Right or wrong, for many of us the appearance of our avatars / toons is very important (dare I say critical) to our enjoyment of the game.

 

As such, please either:

A) completely redo the end game PvE and PvP armor gear look to something more "Star Warsy"

 

B) allow aug slots to be added to exisiting orange items to allow for more diversity or

 

C) the best option I can think of is to allow for an Appearance Tab system where a player can have whatever ugly armor equipped but over that can have any class or type of armor visible (this would include allowing heavy armor users to use light armor in the Appearance tab system - it's just for appearances and does not change the stats of the gear they actually have equipped but will allow for alot more diversity among players.

 

As it stands, I don't think I can/will bring myself to wear any of the end game armor (exisiting or upcoming with 1.2) and I realize that we will be able to remove all three mods from the end game gear and put them in newly crafted orange items but you are then negating all the exisiting orange items and again narrowing the choices of looks for players unless you add in a system to add an aug slot to current orange items.

 

Please, let your team know that they really need to focus on designing items and gear that are "Star Warsy" - if I wanted my avatar to look like some WoW toon than I would play WoW.

[Rouncer]

I have a possible solution to the issue. One that won't change too much with the current system nor devalue the crafter community. In fact it would make the community stronger as a whole through it's design.

 

Create an item (Augmentation Device) that adds Augmentation Slots onto anything else. Have this item be BoP and have it only be obtainable as a random chance when reverse engineering a non-consumable item. Have that random chance be proportional to the quality of the item being R/Eed, so R/Eing an ilevel 140 purple item might have a 30% chance of creating one while a ilevel 10 green would have less then a 1% chance.

 

Items with augmentation slots would still be created normally and would be valued for having those slots but at least then people with any of the crafting professions would have a chance to obtain Augmentation Devices for their own use. The search for those Augmentation Devices would continue to drive the market for crafting materials while their existence would keep the market for non-augmented pieces active. Also since they would be BoP there would be no reason to just R/E everything looking for more of them as once you had enough for your personal needs there would be minimal reason to keep pushing for more of them. Although having extras would still have value due to their scarcity.

[swliner]

Based on the latest Blog Post, I hereby withdraw my objection to the lack of an Augmentation Device. As long as you can RE any modifiable item into a schematic (though it better be w/100% chance :glare: ) then you don't need an AD.

[Glower]

Based on the latest Blog Post, I hereby withdraw my objection to the lack of an Augmentation Device. As long as you can RE any modifiable item into a schematic (though it better be w/100% chance :glare: ) then you don't need an AD.

 

If already have a rare armor (for example - very rare set - http://www.torhead.com/search/RD-07A%20Vendetta ), so i need this "Augmentation Device".

[Daegil]

Even if you can reverse engineer end game drops it still makes the models useless for non armorcrafters.

 

Lets say you are a biochem. You get super awesome tier 2 armor drop from an operation. What happens next? You strip the super awesome tier 2 armor of its armoring, mod and enhancement. Then, you find a vendor and SELL that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got because it does not have augment slot and you cannot reverse engineer it. Finally, you go to GTN and buy a low level orange armor piece with an augment slot and put the armoring, mod and enhancement on it along with an augment because its superior to that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got rid off. That just seems silly to me.

[Mephane]

Based on the latest Blog Post, I hereby withdraw my objection to the lack of an Augmentation Device. As long as you can RE any modifiable item into a schematic (though it better be w/100% chance :glare: ) then you don't need an AD.

 

Some items cannot be get by everyone, for example daily heroic missions yield only class-specific stuff, which means that the number for crafters who will repeatedly get the very item you want, RE it again and again and then produce more than a single critted item to sell, not just for themselves, will be low on certain items. Expect some items to never show up on the GTN because the hassle isn't worth the 10 people on the server who want it.

 

On top of that, some items can only be acquired once. They come from non-repeatable, sometimes even class-specific missions. The chance of anyone ever having that recipe and selling critted instances of that item will be miniscule.

 

And the even further: I've already worked hard to get to the point I am at now. No way am I going to spend millions of credits on the GTN for the very items I already wear, plus the quite hefty fee to transfer all my mods over to the new, critted items.

 

Augments will not be that rare come 1.2, but still mostly be something for the min-maxers. Most common will be low level critted items, as mass-producing them to get crits will be the cheapest.

[GnatB]

Even if you can reverse engineer end game drops it still makes the models useless for non armorcrafters.

 

Lets say you are a biochem. You get super awesome tier 2 armor drop from an operation. What happens next? You strip the super awesome tier 2 armor of its armoring, mod and enhancement. Then, you find a vendor and SELL that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got because it does not have augment slot and you cannot reverse engineer it. Finally, you go to GTN and buy a low level orange armor piece with an augment slot and put the armoring, mod and enhancement on it along with an augment because its superior to that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got rid off. That just seems silly to me.

 

Not if they are moving away from the BoP model like they said they are.

 

You strip out those mods, sell/give that armor to an armorcrafter. Said armorcrafter RE's the schematic, and sells/gives you an orange augmented version of it. You slap your mods back in the augmented orange version.

 

Edit: I'd argue that ideally, "empty" shells shouldn't be BoE or BoP or even Bound. However slotted they should reflect the "boundedness" of the mods inside.

Edited March 20, 2012 by GnatB

[Mephane]

Not if they are moving away from the BoP model like they said they are.

 

You strip out those mods, sell/give that armor to an armorcrafter. Said armorcrafter RE's the schematic, and sells/gives you an orange augmented version of it. You slap your mods back in the augmented orange version.

 

They are only going away from BoP on already crafted items, e.g. the current BoP belts+bracers might be BoE then.

 

BoP stuff from flashpoints, operations and warzones will remain BoP.

[Dzhokhar]

They are only going away from BoP on already crafted items, e.g. the current BoP belts+bracers might be BoE then.

 

BoP stuff from flashpoints, operations and warzones will remain BoP.

 

As long as the chance of learning a schematic by REing an orange item is 100% there won't be a problem. If the chance is less than 100%, crafted versions of certain quest-reward items are going to be super-rare (and ultimately unattainable for anybody who doesn't have incredible RNG luck).