Mephane Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 As long as the chance of learning a schematic by REing an orange item is 100% there won't be a problem. If the chance is less than 100%, crafted versions of certain quest-reward items are going to be super-rare (and ultimately unattainable for anybody who doesn't have incredible RNG luck). The chance is not 100%. There are already reports from people who RE'ed a Rakata item and did not get a schematic on their very first attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swliner Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Speaking solely for myself (and really, who else could I speak for?) I'm fine with any given piece of orange armor being rarely seen, as long as there exists the POSSIBILITY for it. It costs millions of credits to look the way you want? That's still better than not being available at any price. It then just becomes a matter of exactly what value you put on your look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzhokhar Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The chance is not 100%. There are already reports from people who RE'ed a Rakata item and did not get a schematic on their very first attempt. Are there any Orange Rakata items? I know the blog post says any "moddable" item, but I sort of interpreted it to mean only Orange items, given that the name of the item doesn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPman Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Even if you can reverse engineer end game drops it still makes the models useless for non armorcrafters. Lets say you are a biochem. You get super awesome tier 2 armor drop from an operation. What happens next? You strip the super awesome tier 2 armor of its armoring, mod and enhancement. Then, you find a vendor and SELL that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got because it does not have augment slot and you cannot reverse engineer it. Finally, you go to GTN and buy a low level orange armor piece with an augment slot and put the armoring, mod and enhancement on it along with an augment because its superior to that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got rid off. That just seems silly to me. This... FFS! If this goes live I'm going to rage so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swliner Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Even if you can reverse engineer end game drops it still makes the models useless for non armorcrafters. Lets say you are a biochem. You get super awesome tier 2 armor drop from an operation. What happens next? You strip the super awesome tier 2 armor of its armoring, mod and enhancement. Then, you find a vendor and SELL that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got because it does not have augment slot and you cannot reverse engineer it. Finally, you go to GTN and buy a low level orange armor piece with an augment slot and put the armoring, mod and enhancement on it along with an augment because its superior to that super awesome tier 2 armor you just got rid off. That just seems silly to me. Or, you could get the crit-orange version of the tier 2 armor, since mechs can make those now as well. You are then exactly where you were before except with an extra augment slot. How much is ekeing out every bit of performance via that extra slot worth to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 A simpler solution would be to follow the upcoming craftable augments - various crafts make various augments. So... Armormech = Armor Augmentation Device Synthweaving = Force-Sensitive Augmentation Device Armstech = Weapon Augmentation Device Artifice = Lightsabre Augmentation Device Cybertech = Cybernetics Augmentation Device Biochem = Biotechnology Augmentation Device Alternatively... give the Augmentation Device to Cybertech, and move their Armoring away. I like this one better, but I suspect not everyone will Cybertech is bottomline a useless profession. We don't have the implants. We have ear pieces. We have no ability to craft orange earpieces. Or I have never seen an orange earpiece or a schematic that would allow me to craft one that would in effect let you add the best in class mods to it and crit craft on it to make augments. I don't think ear pieces do either. Grenades have a 5 min. universal cooldown. Space mods are worthless. Vehicle we can craft is BOP. Droid Parts pretty much useless. I mean I guess you could get some parts that are modable with augments that would give you better skills. I don't see any value except for the most hardcore person looking to max stat a companion they love. So unless you have a plan to supplment my busted crafting class let me know. Right now I see it being rendered completely as a throw away garbage craft class. At least with armor+mods I had a reason to keep it for leveling alts. I was hoping earpieces would be improved one day to allow me to make tier 3 across the board. Or at least above loot drop/missions. 51 ish. Guess not. Cause this game doesn't even know what the crafters can make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzhokhar Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 PlagaNerezza, may I call your attention to the following excerpts from the recent Crew Skills blog post: Cybertech If your character has the Cybertech profession, you will now be able to sell any of the vehicles you create on the Galactic Trade Network, as we have removed their binding restrictions from the game. A critical success while crafting grenades now results in double the number of grenades (which also had their cooldown reduced to 3 minutes to allow more frequent use), and a critical success when creating item modifications now yields an additional mod for your efforts. Mods from tier 2 end game items may now be extracted and researched. However, Armorings that provide a set bonus can only be extracted. They do not yield research schematics. I believe that should address a lot of your concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachael Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Okay how about this can I reverse engineer the Imp Pilot gear with 100% change of SCHM and then have to crit on making the gear to get an augmented slot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swliner Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Current word from the PTS is that REing social gear is not giving a schematic. So no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elderhound Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The issue being created is that orange gear that isn't craftable won't be as good as mastercraft gear.... and mastercraft orange lowbie gear will become the new endgame gear. Why not just create an "add augment slot item' as a money sink? 125k -250k buys you an aug slot? I don't feel that this item should be craftable- because it will be in too high a demand for the market to be fair. Mechanically- it could be added to the game by making a new item that you "add" your armor item to - as though the armor item itself were the mod. When you confirm your decision, the original item is replaced by a new item with the same appearance/mods but also has an augment slot. The "add augment item" is consumed by the process. This gets around the problem that the current mod schematic for orange gear doesn't have a place to put the "add augment" item. All that is really needed is a single piece of window art be created, and some programming code be done. I agree 100%. Lets use an "add augment slot item' this benefits crafters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarina Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Right now, getting Augment slots on crafted gear is luck-based. Adding a way to specifically craft augment-slots would remove that luck-factor - you don't have to craft the same item X times and wait for a crit, you can instead just craft the item once and then craft the augment-slot. It'll still cost resources of course. Additionally, the augment-socket items could come in various levels, determining the maximum augment-level they can hold. The cheapest could only hold augments up to level 15, the next one up to 25 etc. That way, we would still have a way to use augments at lower levels without spending insane amounts of resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's amazing how many of you guys starting giving opinions or complaints without reading and understanding all the notes. The best gear in game will come from the combined efforts of raid gear and crafters. The way I understood it, once you get say a tier head piece, you can then RE it and possibly learn the sch. For it. At that point you can craft orange equivalent pieces. You'll then want to craft those until you crit craft it and get the orange version of it with an augment slot. See how that works? The same goes with the mods and enhancements from what I read. If this is indeed correct, and bug free, it will be the best crafting system I've ever seen in a mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Right now, getting Augment slots on crafted gear is luck-based. Adding a way to specifically craft augment-slots would remove that luck-factor - you don't have to craft the same item X times and wait for a crit, you can instead just craft the item once and then craft the augment-slot. It'll still cost resources of course. Additionally, the augment-socket items could come in various levels, determining the maximum augment-level they can hold. The cheapest could only hold augments up to level 15, the next one up to 25 etc. That way, we would still have a way to use augments at lower levels without spending insane amounts of resources. That would do nothing more then devalue all orange gear without augment slots and you know it. No one, will buy the gear without augments. By keeping the augments on the crit craft it means that the market wont be flooded with them and that cloak that you want, you might have fo settle on the orange non augment version for a while untill you either craft one with an augment or find someone selling one. By making the process easy and controllable, all it does is devalue everything else. Edited March 25, 2012 by AidanLightwalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Crafters becareful what you are asking for here. Making everything easy will do nothing but devalue everything we make and only the best stuff will sell. I dont know about you guys, but during my leveling experience, I would craft color crystals and RE them until i got the blue version. I would then use that blue version until I vot lucky on a blue REd to learn the purple version. Sometimes I got lucky and other times it took forever. But the fact of the matter is, if I could easily and garuntee go straight to the purple version, I would have. What reason would I have had for the blue and green version? And if it was that easy, all you would see on the GTN would be the purple versions because what use would anyone have for the others? Think long and hard about you are asking for. Or the only thing we are going to see on the GTN is orange gear with augment slots, all going for less than cost of the mats. And everything less that that, you wont be able to give away. I for one am glad that they are doing it this way. It keeps the supply and demand in check, and along with it, the prices. Edited March 25, 2012 by AidanLightwalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCereal Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Thanks Georg for this info, I just read this today. Now let me say, that it is a TERRIBLE idea to let 1.2 go live without the ability to "retrofit" augment slots onto existing gear. The reason is simple. With 1.2, as it stands, orange gear will go from being a cosmetic perk, to becoming a PvP and raiding imperative. People will HAVE TO use critt'd orange gear to remain competitive at the highest levels. This is because removing the armoring mod etc. from top-end tier gear and slotting them into critt'd orange gear will allow for the very best stats. Orange gear will no longer be desired for it's cosmetic value, but for min-max reasons. Worse, because it's a lot cheaper to mass produce low-level orange gear for chances at augments, what you'll end up seeing is all the serious raiders/pvpers in level 10-20 orange critted orange gear with tier armorings/mods. This will completely defeat the purpose of orange gear (which I assume has always been cosmetic). Adding the ability to retro-fit existing gear with augments slots, does not have to hurt crafters. Just don't make it cheap. If it costs 100k to add an augment slot, then crafters can easily make 80k extra out of every crit. How is that hurting? The alternative, is much, much worse. With Game Update 1.2, we will enable the creation of augment slotted items through various crafting professions. You will not be able to retrofit existing items with augment slots, but this is something we're discussing internally as 'we probably want to add this', so any of your feedback is worthwhile to us. If/when we offer that option, it will be added in a way that does not devalue the crafter community. Regarding augments in general, we are NOT increasing the power level of augments. The current top level augments in the game will, for 1.2. at least, remain the most powerful augments in the game. Reverse engineering for augments will be added as well (for the appropriate professions), so any augments already obtained before 1.2. should retain their value. Edited March 25, 2012 by DrCereal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thanks Georg for this info, I just read this today. Now let me say, that it is a TERRIBLE idea to let 1.2 go live without the ability to "retrofit" augment slots onto existing gear. The reason is simple. With 1.2, as it stands, orange gear will go from being a cosmetic perk, to becoming a PvP and raiding imperative. People will HAVE TO use critt'd orange gear to remain competitive at the highest levels. This is because removing the armoring mod etc. from top-end tier gear and slotting them into critt'd orange gear will allow for the very best stats. Orange gear will no longer be desired for it's cosmetic value, but for min-max reasons. Worse, because it's a lot cheaper to mass produce low-level orange gear for chances at augments, what you'll end up seeing is all the serious raiders/pvpers in level 10-20 orange critted orange gear with tier armorings/mods. This will completely defeat the purpose of orange gear (which I assume has always been cosmetic). Adding the ability to retro-fit existing gear with augments slots, does not have to hurt crafters. Just don't make it cheap. If it costs 100k to add an augment slot, then crafters can easily make 80k extra out of every crit. How is that hurting? The alternative, is much, much worse. All that does than is devalue vwithoug augment slots and just adds stat bloat to all gear. Right now, an augment slot is rare and makes the piece stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCereal Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 All that does than is devalue vwithoug augment slots and just adds stat bloat to all gear. Right now, an augment slot is rare and makes the piece stand out. No, it's rare now. But wait until crafted orange gear can crit. After that, just about every serious raider and pvper will be wearing critted orange gear. The reason is simple: a crafted crit may be rare, but you only ever need one for each gear slot. After that you can simply remove the armourings/mods from any endgame raid/pvp gear and put it into your orange gear. Moreso, low level orange gear is not hard to craft. It's entirely feasible to mass craft the low level oranges in order to get critted gear. These will sell like pancakes. And it will make everyone look like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnugthreeonefive Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Does anyone have a link to info about what augmentable orange sets are available to choose between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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