Please don't trivialize PVP gear in 1.2

[_DaGreat]

There is a difference between a bad players screaming unbalance, and the game actually being unbalanced. The vast majority of hardcore PvPers would say this game is very balanced. 9/10 if a person screams there class is weak its because that person is not using the class in an advantageous way. Like I said, all classes have pros and cons. If one does not put themselves in the proper situation (Ranged using slows to keep range or Melee using gab closes to keep close) then they will go right to the forum to complain.

 

I think you didnt understand my last post. I never said the game was perfectly balanced. No game will ever be perfectly balanced. Your point was that the classes were not perfectly so the gear unbalanced fit. Problem is that the game is very, not perfectly, balanced and the gear unbalance is much greater. Bioware has stayed on top of the classes and the nerff/buffs have made the game more balanced than its ever been. This further disproves your "Its all unbalanced" argument

 

And a respec does not mean you can flip from a lvl 50 BH to a lvl 50 SW. Thats not what respec means. Respec means switching from say a DPS build to a tank.

 

My goodness ... where do I start. Oh how about your above supposition (previous post) that the game is balanced because you 'ruin' operatives. Sorry my man if you said I get them 50% of the time then that might help support what you are saying but I am not sure how saying you basically dominate a class helps support your argument for class balance.

 

Oh, and did you get a chance to read any PVP posts since your last post. I hope you realize that your comment that 'no one' is claiming the classes aren't balanced flies in the face of all logic.

 

"thats not what respec means" ...Why cann't respecs mean CLASS respecs. It has in other games. Where is the MMORPG rule book that says they can not mean CLASS respecs? Or do you think 'casuals' should need to level grind to play the class they want or feel they need to play to be competitive.

 

And then there is this 'Bioware has stayed on top of the classes and the nerff/buffs have made the game more balanced than its ever been. This further disproves your "Its all unbalanced" argument' ... so BW changing things to make things more balanced (or less unbalanced depending on your perspective) is proof that classes are/have been balanced? Maybe in bizarro universe.

[CharleyDanger]

LOL no it doesnt. Like you I am very familiar with my grapple. On a ball carrier Resolve is capped right away, and your can kiss your harpoon goodbye. Guess what though, regardless of resolve, Rescue/Extrication is 100% failsafe. it works 100% of the time. Does your harpoon works even 50% of the time. Please be honest. And how many people can you harpoon in a 20sec window, which a group of coordinated Sorc will have the ball ran from center to goal.

 

My harpoon works almost 100% of the time, honest lol. But I run with a premade a lot so.. You seem like you know what your talking about, you know a good team will not allow full resolve bars. I played a match against a premade sorc team, one of the best games if played. Me and my boy, both tanked speced, owned the middle and ended up wining 6-5. Once we had the middle the sorcs never got the ball back. But it is nasty when they chain pass, mid to endzone in like 5 sec lol. They went up 4-0 in about 5 min, but then we had mid and they were too squishy to get the ball back.

 

But any premade group will be a pain, you cant say its just sorcs. After that match I bet those sorcs were saying tanked speced troopers were OP

[Agooz]

My harpoon works almost 100% of the time, honest lol. But I run with a premade a lot so.. You seem like you know what your talking about, you know a good team will not allow full resolve bars. I played a match against a premade sorc team, one of the best games if played. Me and my boy, both tanked speced, owned the middle and ended up wining 6-5. Once we had the middle the sorcs never got the ball back. But it is nasty when they chain pass, mid to endzone in like 5 sec lol. They went up 4-0 in about 5 min, but then we had mid and they were too squishy to get the ball back.

 

But any premade group will be a pain, you cant say its just sorcs. After that match I bet those sorcs were saying tanked speced troopers were OP

 

Premade > most pugs. Premade1 > Premade2 (premade1 has more sorc)

[rzrknight]

PvP gear is going to be trivial , skill , time those things dont matter for it.

[rzrknight]

"thats not what respec means" ...Why cann't respecs mean CLASS respecs. It has in other games. Where is the MMORPG rule book that says they can not mean CLASS respecs? Or do you think 'casuals' should need to level grind to play the class they want or feel they need to play to be competitive.

 

BW has already said they wont implement class respecs , deal with it.

[CharleyDanger]

My goodness ... where do I start. Oh how about your above supposition (previous post) that the game is balanced because you 'ruin' operatives. Sorry my man if you said I get them 50% of the time then that might help support what you are saying but I am not sure how saying you basically dominate a class helps support your argument for class balance.

 

Oh, and did you get a chance to read any PVP posts since your last post. I hope you realize that your comment that 'no one' is claiming the classes aren't balanced flies in the face of all logic.

 

"thats not what respec means" ...Why cann't respecs mean CLASS respecs. It has in other games. Where is the MMORPG rule book that says they can not mean CLASS respecs? Or do you think 'casuals' should need to level grind to play the class they want or feel they need to play to be competitive.

 

And then there is this 'Bioware has stayed on top of the classes and the nerff/buffs have made the game more balanced than its ever been. This further disproves your "Its all unbalanced" argument' ... so BW changing things to make things more balanced (or less unbalanced depending on your perspective) is proof that classes are/have been balanced? Maybe in bizarro universe.

 

 

First of all calm down lol. I never made an "unbalanced argument". Unbalanced is your argument. Just take a deep breath and read the post again. You are getting a head of your self.

 

Second, just because ppl complain about a game being unbalanced does not make it unbalanced. Every competitive game i have played has been called unbalanced by tons of ppl on forums. You are in the minority in your belief that this game is unbalanced. Unbalanced is what bad players scream because they cant understand why they are bad.

 

And sure, respec your class, I dont care. Yet know it will change nothing lol. You will find something else to be pissed about and change it again and again. Every class in this game can be competitive at endgame. Its the person controlling the toon thats the problem.

 

Oh, and my point about killing Ops was that ppl think they are overpowered. Being that I dont find them to be an issue, they must not be that OP. Get it? You are a bad debater lol

Edited March 13, 2012 by CharleyDanger

[CharleyDanger]

Premade > most pugs. Premade1 > Premade2 (premade1 has more sorc)

 

Oh Im not saying it enjoy playing sorcs lol. But are you really ready to call the game unbalanced because of them dirty sorcs?

 

Wait... Did you even say the game was unbalanced? I have been going back and forth with the other guy, I forgot lol.

[_DaGreat]

BW has already said they wont implement class respecs , deal with it.

 

It was hypothetical question for another poster...

 

Oh I forgot. "DEAL WITH IT"

[Agooz]

Oh Im not saying it enjoy playing sorcs lol. But are you really ready to call the game unbalanced because of them dirty sorcs?

 

Wait... Did you even say the game was unbalanced? I have been going back and forth with the other guy, I forgot lol.

 

LOL no I didnt say it was unbalanced. Actually for the most part I think Bio did a good job. I just have some nuisances about Sorc. I am not calling a nerf for them even, because in PvE they are just fine. One suggestion I had is have Extrication/Rescue also check for Resolve. A simple tweak like this is all I am calling for.

 

I am actually fine with certain classes having advantages over others in specific WZs. They just need to create more WZs with objectives geared towards DPS, others more geared for tanks, etc...

Edited March 13, 2012 by Agooz

[CharleyDanger]

Yeah, I agree. The game still needs some tweaking.

[rzrknight]

It was hypothetical question for another poster...

 

Oh I forgot. "DEAL WITH IT"

 

Dont worry , i dont want it anyway , i will deal with it quite well

[Malkara]

I don't get it in this forums.... If you are a PvP-er that likes to be actually rewarded by your time spent and effort, you get a freaking troll "REAL PVP-ERS DONT WANT TO HAV AN EDGE ON NOOOBS" HEY MAN! Breaking News! In PvE you spend time playing and you are rewarded with an edge over noobs too!!! An edge that can get you votekicked!

 

/bump

Bioware you better introduce Rank requirements on gear... Or You prefer to just level all the PvE gear to match PvP??? No more tionese, columni, or rakata!!! Lets all have the same freaking gear handed to us by doing some FLASHPOINTS! Or even better normal operations! Which are supposed to be the equivalent of a noob team in ranked warzone GETTING their comms EVEN if they lose!!!!

 

 

 

I feel that a minimum Rating requirement to buy War Hero gear might help the situations some, as it will keep the non participaters, and players who just do the bare minimum in rated WZ from 'easy' access to that tier of PVP Gear.

 

 

@ whoever is saying classes are 'balanced' - LMAO- its clear u Dont PVP much at all- there are alot of issues with mirror class skills and cast/attack animations. i would not at all call PVP balanced. it will be a long while before most PVPers would say that. 1.2 and post 1.2 will see the correction of cast/skill animations and should help us get closer to 'balanced' classes in pvp

[Dego_Locc]

I feel that a minimum Rating requirement to buy War Hero gear might help the situations some, as it will keep the non participaters, and players who just do the bare minimum in rated WZ from 'easy' access to that tier of PVP Gear.

 

 

@ whoever is saying classes are 'balanced' - LMAO- its clear u Dont PVP much at all- there are alot of issues with mirror class skills and cast/attack animations. i would not at all call PVP balanced. it will be a long while before most PVPers would say that. 1.2 and post 1.2 will see the correction of cast/skill animations and should help us get closer to 'balanced' classes in pvp

 

PVP in MMO's is never balanced though, that's what people seem to not get. Equal gear for everyone or not. Balance. Ha!

[venjinze]

dot dot dot

 

Again, rated will prevent undergeared being matched against geared opponents. In rated, you will more than likely be facing people in equal GEAR and with similar SKILL levels, see how nicely those go hand in hand? If you were to take progression out of MMO's, we'd be paying $15.00 a month to play Halo. Again, I gain nothing out of killing someone who has little to no PvP gear, I won't be playing rated warzone's to face these types of opponents.

Edited March 13, 2012 by venjinze

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

 

 

 

False, pvpers do care about gear because the best gear gives you an edge. Make it hard to get so that it is worthwhile putting the effort in.

 

The top gear should go to top players.

[Groncho]

False, pvpers do care about gear because the best gear gives you an edge. Make it hard to get so that it is worthwhile putting the effort in.

 

The top gear should go to top players.

 

Well, we have found the PvGears code base here

This is how customers that are like hamsters in their wheels understand PVP

The words "skill" , timming, tactics and coordination have no place for this grindpack

Is sad

[Dego_Locc]

Well, we have found the PvGears code base here

This is how customers that are like hamsters in their wheels understand PVP

The words "skill" , timming, tactics and coordination have no place for this grindpack

Is sad

 

Some of us like the challenge of being underdogs on our ways up, or on our alts.

 

Even gear for all will ruin that.

 

Some ppl like the grind for gear.

 

I know it's so hard to fathom because your mind is only open to your way of thinking. But regardless a significant amount of ppl still don't want even/equal top tear PVP gear handouts to everyone, even casual pve'ers regardless of valor rank.

 

I'd say on the forums it's half and half at this point. But MOST players aren't even aware of this change yet and wait until its in the official patch notes. If you think ppl are complaining and QQing now, just wait until the general population finds out their grind time for PVP was/is now useless null and void.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Emencie]

dot dot dot

 

Again, rated will prevent undergeared being matched against geared opponents. In rated, you will more than likely be facing people in equal GEAR and with similar SKILL levels, see how nicely those go hand in hand? If you were to take progression out of MMO's, we'd be paying $15.00 a month to play Halo. Again, I gain nothing out of killing someone who has little to no PvP gear, I won't be playing rated warzone's to face these types of opponents.

 

Did you just say that the Elo system will put us all against equally skilled and geared players? You are right... It will. So I pose a question.

 

If your PVP gear gives you no advantage at all in rated warzones because everyone in your bracket has the exact same advantage.

If your PVP gear only serves as a representation of your level of skill and dedication and only gives you an advantage over people NOT at your skill level in open PVP.

 

Why does it need to give you any advantage at all?

 

you can still have gear progression, without the gear making those with the gear completely demolish those without it. And guess what? with a system that Promotes aesthetic gear progression you will find your pool of potential PVP players more rich.

 

There are plenty of decent PVPers that simply don't join in because they cannot devote the time to getting the gear they need to have to PVP competitively. You get to tap the group that PVPs for fun and not status. And the Hardcore players still get their status symbol grind.

 

The only group that loses out are the ones that just want to ROFLSTOMP noobs because they have super gear.

[Groncho]

Some of us like the challenge of being underdogs on our ways up, or on our alts.

 

Even gear for all will ruin that.

 

Some ppl like the grind for gear.

 

I know it's so hard to fathom because your mind is only open to your way of thinking. But regardless a significant amount of ppl still don't want even/equal top tear PVP gear handouts to everyone, even casual pve'ers regardless of valor rank.

 

I'd say on the forums it's half and half at this point. But MOST players aren't even aware of this change yet and wait until its in the official patch notes. If you think ppl are complaining and QQing now, just wait until the general population finds out their grind time for PVP was/is now useless null and void.

 

that happens when u face PvP with a Pve point of view

i wont mention the word carebear cause i dont want to be flamed

[venjinze]

Did you just say that the Elo system will put us all against equally skilled and geared players? You are right... It will. So I pose a question.

 

If your PVP gear gives you no advantage at all in rated warzones because everyone in your bracket has the exact same advantage.

If your PVP gear only serves as a representation of your level of skill and dedication and only gives you an advantage over people NOT at your skill level in open PVP.

 

Why does it need to give you any advantage at all?

 

you can still have gear progression, without the gear making those with the gear completely demolish those without it. And guess what? with a system that Promotes aesthetic gear progression you will find your pool of potential PVP players more rich.

 

There are plenty of decent PVPers that simply don't join in because they cannot devote the time to getting the gear they need to have to PVP competitively. You get to tap the group that PVPs for fun and not status. And the Hardcore players still get their status symbol grind.

 

The only group that loses out are the ones that just want to ROFLSTOMP noobs because they have super gear.

 

Again, going back to my first post, the gear should be statistically better for higher rated teams & players. This is not to have an advantage against lower skilled teams/players but to set a clear distinction and keep people interested in competing. My gear is never going to be able to compete for me or activate my skills.

 

No one PvE's for fun over and over(I'm sure people will argue against this but ultimately, people are there to get better gear), they do it in hopes of that last set piece or a rare weapon. I don't care about gear aesthetics, the best gear should go to the hardest working players, end of story. This is an MMO. If you want everyone at the same gear level, why bother having levels or any progression, why not just start everyone off at 50 with a full set of pvp gear, how many subscribers would SWTOR have? 0.

[Sykomyke]

Again, going back to my first post, the gear should be statistically better for higher rated teams & players. This is not to have an advantage against lower skilled teams/players but to set a clear distinction and keep people interested in competing. My gear is never going to be able to compete for me or activate my skills.

 

No one PvE's for fun over and over(I'm sure people will argue against this but ultimately, people are there to get better gear), they do it in hopes of that last set piece or a rare weapon. I don't care about gear aesthetics, the best gear should go to the hardest working players, end of story. This is an MMO. If you want everyone at the same gear level, why bother having levels or any progression, why not just start everyone off at 50 with a full set of pvp gear, how many subscribers would SWTOR have? 0.

 

^This guy speaks the truth.

 

MMO's are about grind. Veiled grind maybe, but grind none-the-less. In order for grind to be "fun" there has to be a "carrot". Whatever YOUR carrot is determines how much you enjoy the game.

 

For some people the carrot is Story. (completing class quest)

For some people the carrot is Gear. (Attaining the best gear)

For some people the carrot is wealth. (Able to buy anything they want in-game).

For some people the carrot is Aesthetics (Being able to look the coolest)

 

And the list can go on, some people want to gather ALL the recipes for a certain profession; others want to attain all the achievments or datacrons. Or maybe it's a combination of the above examples.

 

The point about PvP gear being available...unless the grind for these items becomes massive; is that you'll have no tiers of progression. People will just save up for the best War Hero items.

 

Right now in PvE you have people go through Flashpoints/Operations. The natural progression is Tier 1 (Tionese/Exotech)--->Tier 2 (Columi/Crit-Crafted Purples) ---> Tier 3 (Rakata/Crit-Crafted Columi/Rakata Gear)

 

So why is it that it's ok for PvE to have progression, but it's not for PvP? Why are people so adament about "equal gear for all"? Who cares if that guy in War Hero gear decimated that fresh 50. If that fresh 50 REALLY wants to be competitive in PvP...he'll do the SAME VALOR GRIND that the War Hero did to get that gear. Then when he gets that gear, him and other War Hero's will be on even ground. It doesn't matter if that fresh 50 gets stomped. He's a fresh 50!!!

 

Fresh 50's get stomped regardless of where they are, PvE or PvP. So why the QQ about gear disparity in PvP? Earn your gear just like you earn it in PvE; stop asking for 'welfare epics' because you don't know how to play your class.

[richardya]

Well, we have found the PvGears code base here

This is how customers that are like hamsters in their wheels understand PVP

The words "skill" , timming, tactics and coordination have no place for this grindpack

Is sad

 

It's sad that you do not know what progression is.

Progression and skill are not mutually exclusive.

People enjoy progression, when I finished my BM gear I didn't enjoy rolling on new 50's. I still enjoyed the WZ's but missed the progression so I rolled an alt. I enjoy PvP even when I am the least geared.

 

Not all classes are balanced perfectly, not all WZ's are balanced perfectly and not all gear is balanced perfectly.

[darkmoney]

Everyone should have access to the same gear, I'm not saying it shouldnt be a long grind, but the difference gear makes in this game is huge.

 

And to have FUN pvp battles people need gear its not fun just to roll everyone all the time..... where is the challenge?

[RealAeiouy]

Op, real pvpers don't want a perpetual gear advantage as it inhibits enjoying wining a match.

[Dego_Locc]

Op, real pvpers don't want a perpetual gear advantage as it inhibits enjoying wining a match.

 

Then "real PVPers" will find themselves very alone in this game's future, when the rest of us fake PVPers leave because we all ate our carrot too fast.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dego_Locc