Are we actually due for a nerf? I can't even tell.

[Serrowherrow]

Taking into account the normal gloom-and-doom routine of the forums,

 

Is the Marauder/Sentinel class actually looked at being nerfed? All we really have is the ability to speculate and form our opinions based on current performance, but I've had lengthy discussions with a lot of my friends about this.

 

For the record, I'm on Lord Adrass, my marauder Rakore can beat anyone in my guild, and pretty much everyone on my friend's list without much trouble in a 1v1. But it's a rp server, so I hardly consider myself 'skilled' with the notable absence of serious hard-core pvpers. (Though we have our own neckbeards and we love them too.)

 

So I decided to make this post; In the highly competitive zone, do we really just have too much of everything? My friends say the class has too much defensive power and killing power for what it does, notably pointing out things like cloak of pain and undying rage as the forefront. I typically make my rebuttal in that without the ability to mitigate damage, it would be pointless to have a class that can kill you in 10-15 seconds if it's dead in 5.

 

The only disclaimer I'd like to make before any sort of discussion gets rolling is this : Please try to keep centered around the question. We can safely assume everyone here has at least -SOME- concept of the Marauder class and/or has seen/done what it can do at the fullest extent of its ability. So we don't need any 'lrn2play' or 'troll' insults being tossed around like candy. Thanks.

[deathTouchIG]

I sure hope they try to nerf us since, based on their previous record with the class, there's a good chance they'll screw it up and actually buff maras.

[Dharkeon]

I wouldn't really be surprised if there would be changes.

 

Expecting slight nerf in survivability and your overall ability to solo.

And -perhaps- a little tune down the annihilation specc and boosting\revamping others to be more attractive.

 

Again - this is from a PvP stand point and from the pov of a sniper so plenty of info might be simple misconception of Warzones\dueling.

[Kricys]

Most likely. How, I have no idea. I'd like an anni nerf just so i have a reason to go carnage.

I doubt they'd nerf damage too greatly since were a pure and have no cc. Maybe def cooldowns will be adjusted.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Kricys

[gibmachine]

Expecting slight nerf in survivability and your overall ability to solo.

And -perhaps- a little tune down the annihilation specc and boosting\revamping others to be more attractive.

 

Solo is basically everything we can do since to pull off Smash you have to jump in and without cds ready, you're gonna get cleaved down.

 

I won't be surprised if Undying Rage gets longer cd but frankly, if anything, I'd expect a little toning down for anni and buffing carnage in terms of survivability and/or damage modifiers on some abilities.

Edited March 12, 2012 by gibmachine

[CaptainInsano]

Marauders aren't even the best 1v1 class. That title belongs to Tankassins. Nerfing Annihilation would be a travesty considering it's the only good spec. Carnage desperately needs buffs/bug fixes to be a viable tree. You don't achieve that by nerfing the one viable spec.

[Xerain]

Marauders aren't even the best 1v1 class. That title belongs to Tankassins. Nerfing Annihilation would be a travesty considering it's the only good spec. Carnage desperately needs buffs/bug fixes to be a viable tree. You don't achieve that by nerfing the one viable spec.

 

Carnage really doesn't need a buff, it's just not as good as annihilation for solo play and pugging. With a premade carnage does pretty amazing and I can see it becoming the spec for rated war zones to get that on demand burst to take people down.

[HBninjaX]

doubtful, if anything carnage should get a buff

 

marauders feel balanced. you may be able to 1v1 people on an RP server, but even you admit that isn't saying much. I've run into some deadly snipers, powertechs, assassins, ops. I would say im on an average pvp server with some fairly solid guilds

 

marauders don't live long under much scrutiny (barring UDR/FC), but we have really good escape moves for a non stealther class

Edited March 13, 2012 by HBninjaX

[Xerain]

doubtful, if anything carnage should get a buff

 

marauders feel balanced. you may be able to 1v1 people on an RP server, but even you admit that isn't saying much. I've run into some deadly snipers, powertechs, assassins, ops. I would say on im on average pvp server with some fairly solid guilds

 

marauders doesn't live long under much scrutiny (barring UDR/FC), but we have really good escape moves for a non stealther class

 

Maybe gore needs changed but that's about it, should probably be a charges system. Last time i played carnage i had no problem staying on targets and killing them.

 

 

The only thing i have a problem with is the tankasins, ops are pretty easy, PT's are a joke, and the other specced sins are a joke.

 

 

No one lives long under much scrutiny you can't bring up focus firing and us not living long when it's pretty much same across the board.

[Anbokr]

I highly doubt it. Most marauders on my server are still pretty awful, and nerfing the 1% is something you never want to do. I think they'll buff carnage and leave annhilation as is. If you're talking about the QQ on defensive CDs, I think a lot of it is unwarranted--as a melee you're always in the thick of things, you don't have the option to sit on a ledge and fight on your terms 70% of the time. You completely rely on your CDs to stay alive and do your job--which is to dps. Having cloak of pain for most engagements is nice, and having a last stand or escape (if you combine UR with vanish) gives you some form of control in the clusterfudge that is melee. Saber ward is on a fairly long CD and isn't that useful if many are focusing you, but great for 1v1s or 1v2s. Edited March 13, 2012 by Anbokr

[Yescek]

I highly doubt it. Most marauders on my server are still pretty awful, and nerfing the 1% is something you never want to do. I think they'll buff carnage and leave annhilation as is.

 

**** dude, I hope so.

 

As a Carnage-or(/and)-die spec, my only PvP problem is that my DPS window is only 6 seconds. In reality, I think the duration of Gore needs to be increased to be increased to 15 seconds. Reason being that that will allow for some wiggle room in my rotation AND, should I get my rotation off FLAWLESSLY, I wouldn't need my damage buffed at all. Eh, I take that back, Ataru could scale with gear better but it's ok the way it is. In PvE, the only issue is that the Ataru hitbox-bug needs to be fixed.

 

Gore - Increase duration to 15 seconds

Ataru - This ability suffers from VERY severe scaling issues, and also does not work on Giant Bosses

 

Do the above two, and Carnage becomes perfect.

 

*EDIT: I quoted before the edit, but to reply to that, yeah. People whine WAY too much about our Defensive cooldowns not seeming to realize that the class lives and breathes on them.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Yescek

[Neflarion]

**** dude, I hope so.

 

As a Carnage-or(/and)-die spec, my only PvP problem is that my DPS window is only 6 seconds. In reality, I think the duration of Gore needs to be increased to be increased to 15 seconds. Reason being that that will allow for some wiggle room in my rotation AND, should I get my rotation off FLAWLESSLY, I wouldn't need my damage buffed at all. Eh, I take that back, Ataru could scale with gear better but it's ok the way it is. In PvE, the only issue is that the Ataru hitbox-bug needs to be fixed.

 

Gore - Increase duration to 15 seconds

Ataru - This ability suffers from VERY severe scaling issues, and also does not work on Giant Bosses

 

Do the above two, and Carnage becomes perfect.

 

*EDIT: I quoted before the edit, but to reply to that, yeah. People whine WAY too much about our Defensive cooldowns not seeming to realize that the class lives and breathes on them.

 

You're playing Carnage wrong if you're using a set rotation and think gore+ravage is your strongest dps move. Carnage works on a Priority.

 

Massacre+Force Scream is the strongest DPS move for Carnage. With the Towering Rage talent, Force Scream has 100% crit after every ataru strike. Massacre always procs an ataru strike.

 

Gore doesn't need it's duration increase. It last long enough to get ravage off, with about 1 almost 2 GCD wiggle room.

 

Kiba has a pretty good guide stickied at the top of this forum if you want to look at it.

[Molcof]

Why would they nerf us, maybe worry about Mercs/ Commandos spamming tracer missle/grav rounds that does entirely too much damage with no CD at all. Or a dps Sorc that dot's better then an annihilation spec marauder and still pull high numbers in healing. Or resolve in general, I will have full resolve and still get stunned continously for 10 secs. Before they even should think about "fixing" something that doesn't need fixed, maybe they should worry about those that do.

[Serrowherrow]

Thanks all for the constructive replies!

 

I find myself agreeing with most that's been said here, I briefly experimented with Carnage, but I didn't like how there wasn't really like how it was set up, Annihilation feels more reliable in a sense.

 

I agree that just because a small percentage of people can do amazing things with the class, it shouldn't be nerfed as a result. On that logic, everyone who does well with an easy class (gravman and tracerhero) would be getting a massive nerfbat.

 

Hopefully they go the route of not nerfing Annihilation to make the other trees more viable, just buffing the other ones to Annihilation's level.

 

Now if they nerf annhi and leave everything else alone, time to roll tankassassin.

[Audenlol]

You're playing Carnage wrong if you're using a set rotation and think gore+ravage is your strongest dps move. Carnage works on a Priority.

 

Massacre+Force Scream is the strongest DPS move for Carnage. With the Towering Rage talent, Force Scream has 100% crit after every ataru strike. Massacre always procs an ataru strike.

 

Gore doesn't need it's duration increase. It last long enough to get ravage off, with about 1 almost 2 GCD wiggle room.

 

Kiba has a pretty good guide stickied at the top of this forum if you want to look at it.

 

Carnage is alright.

 

Force charge to ba to massacre to gore to ravage then force scream.

 

Most efficient rotation when all those abilities are off cd. Problem in pvp in a pug setting is that will rarely happen. You are lucky toget a gore massacre force scream with all the knock backs and cc

[Anfy]

Rumor has it undying rage is going to 2-3 seconds instead of 5. That's the only gossip I've heard.

[Serrowherrow]

Rumor has it undying rage is going to 2-3 seconds instead of 5. That's the only gossip I've heard.

 

I hope not. That'd be like, "YEAH! UNDYING RAGE! 2 SECONDS OF FREEDOM. Oh look my GCD is up. /dead."

[mmjarec]

you guys calling for annihi nerf are idiots, what they should do is BUFF THE OTHER TREES not nerf the ONLY VIABLE SPEC THE WHOLE CLASS HAS.

[Seravis]

I think marauders are in a good place at the moment. We do 3 things VERY well, but can't do ANYTHING else. We put out good single target dps, We are hard to kill with all our CDs up, and we have the best single target interrupts. Put us in a small scale deathmatch and we are at our best.

 

But that's all we do. We don't have 30 yard range 8 second mezzes and 4 second stuns. We don't have the gaurd + taunts combos that are needed to protect healers on our teams. We have no effective way to protect an objective against 3+ cappers. As it stand we are the only PURE melee dps in the game in a game where you are able to permanently root people. Put us in a large scale objective match and we are very lacking when it comes to anything but killing and not dieing.

 

Just compare a marauder to a hybrid BH or Assassin and we just look lackluster. They are both just as hard to kill as us while putting out 80-90% of our damage, and have perhaps the best utility of all classes between gaurd, taunt, pull, stuns, mezzes, etc. Both of those classes are superior to marauders in group based objective battles. And whats worse is that Assassins can still beat us 1v1 at the only thing we do.... aka 1v1.

 

But if we get our dps or survivability nerfed we have nothing else to fall back on as its all we have.

 

You can't have a squishy pure melee DOT class with no utility in an mmo.... All I know is that they better not nerf marauders AT ALL without touching these hybrid tanks running around doing everything we do but with 10X the utility in an objective based game.

[Anbokr]

See the thing about undying rage is--it's very strong when paired with phantom in the annhilation tree. Most marauders are annhilation so go figure. Nerfing UR without touching the other 2 marauder specs would seriously hurt carnage and rage pvp, since they will essentially have the gimped vanish (vanish without phantom is a joke) and then a gimped UR.

 

If they HAVE to nerf UR, I'd like to see a talent in carnage that buffs UR duration by 1/2 seconds. Thereby, annhilation has a gimpy UR but an awesome vanish and carnage has a gimpy vanish but an awesome UR.

[mmjarec]

they should make rage the pvp tree since you get an extra leap, in theory it would be the best pvp tree because of the mobility if they buffed survivability .

 

 

the trees just dont seem to have functionality or direction

[fadingdimension]

Warzones are won by team work. Not by the ability to 1v1 successfully.

 

Are healers good 1v1? Generally not. Does that mean you don't want a healer in your warzone? Of course you want them.

 

Marauders are great 1v1. Does that mean you want them in your warzone? Not necessarily. They do great damage within 4m, minimal damage at 10m, and zero beyond that. No taunts, guards, cc, or healing.

 

They have great cooldowns so that they can actually get into range to do damage and survive while they're knocked back, rooted, stunned while doing 0 damage.

[Yescek]

You're playing Carnage wrong if you're using a set rotation and think gore+ravage is your strongest dps move. Carnage works on a Priority.

 

Massacre+Force Scream is the strongest DPS move for Carnage. With the Towering Rage talent, Force Scream has 100% crit after every ataru strike. Massacre always procs an ataru strike.

 

Gore doesn't need it's duration increase. It last long enough to get ravage off, with about 1 almost 2 GCD wiggle room.

 

Kiba has a pretty good guide stickied at the top of this forum if you want to look at it.

 

Why are you calling me bad without knowing ANYTHING I do in combat? I was simply commenting on changes i'd like to see that'd make my life easier.

 

You wanna know my typical rotation? Which, by the way, does NOT stay the same all the time.

 

The 15 seconds is NOT for JUST Gore > Ravage. 15 seconds is a more round figure than the precise duration I'd want. Plus it allows for KBs, roots, snares, stuns, and <insert preferred CC method here>. You have to remember that for Gore itself, and every move thereafter, 1.5 seconds is eaten up by the GCD.

 

HOWEVER, this would give Gore 100% uptime. Which I had forgotten when I posted before. So not 15 seconds then, how about 9 seconds?

 

Charge > BA > Gore (7.5 seconds left) > Massacre (6 seconds left)> FS (4.5 seconds left)> Ravage (3 seconds left)> (Insert Berserk-Massacre Spam Rotation here to eat the last of it)

 

Better?

[Infighter]

They do great damage within 4m, minimal damage at 10m, and zero beyond that. No taunts, guards, cc, or healing.

 

And you're forgetting their group utility why exactly?

 

A good Bloothirst means victory or defeat in a match; Predation can give an edge at the start of a warzone often. Saying that someone wouldn't need one because of lack of taunts or healing is a bit ignorant (and by the way ignorant isn't an insult, it simply means you don't know better).

 

Marauders are most likely the best DPS to have in a warzone, imo. Granted that as long as the player is good. I bet we're going to see them in two in most Rated WZs groups into good players' teams.

[WNxAbaddon]

Marauders are most likely the best DPS to have in a warzone, imo. Granted that as long as the player is good. I bet we're going to see them in two in most Rated WZs groups into good players' teams.

 

You will see more Sorc then Marauders as they do more dps than us are about a buff away from god mode and have some crazy defensive skills.

 

Marauders have less to offer than a noob getting 350k by slamming 3 buttons, but saying that we have some very good support skills that will help in rated if we are lucky post 1.2 we wont be to heavy hit, oh wait noobs are QQ about us, Back to teams of Sorc ruling pvp sigh

Edited March 14, 2012 by WNxAbaddon