3v3 tournament on Helm of Graush

[GeLopez]

Replay: http://www.twitch.tv/strikinginsanity/b/311379895

 

What to know:

- Sages / Sorcerers die instantly to coordinated melee even with taunts and Guard.

- Healing Commando / DPS Vanguard / DPS Vanguard won the whole thing.

- Sentinels / Marauders have an insane amount of survivability.

- In general, melee are completely destroying ranged. This is partially because of the size of the pit, but it's also largely because of how hard it is to kite two coordinated melee.

Edited March 11, 2012 by GeLopez

[Sookster]

- Sages / Sorcerers die instantly to coordinated melee even with taunts and Guard.

- Commando / Vanguard / Vanguard is winning the whole thing.

 

I've been saying it for a while, sage/sorc will be rare and commando/merc will be king in rated matches, it's the reason why we're seeing an explosion of commandos and mercs on HoG lately.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Sookster

[StrikingInsanity]

Vanguard/vanguard/commando healer ended up winning the tournament.

 

The powertech/vanguard nerf coming in a bit should help balance things out a lot, but sage's still have the problem of dying instantly vs 2+ coordinated melee DPS.

Edited March 11, 2012 by StrikingInsanity

[GeLopez]

Yeah, that tournament was depressing. Sages / Sorcerers got rolled and melee completely dominated. I think Sage / Sorcerer might need a survivability buff.

[Pvpingwithnoobs]

Yeah, that tournament was depressing. Sages / Sorcerers got rolled and melee completely dominated. I think Sage / Sorcerer might need a survivability buff.

 

This post was to late, I am willing to bet after the under geared cried non stop about saying how op sages/sorc are, that come 1.2 they will get nerfed, and the gap between melee and ranged will widen even more so.

 

Those who know how to play have been saying melee can stomp on sage/sorc no probs if they are equal geared.

 

It's just a shame BW can't see this.

[GeLopez]

Actually, I think they said in an IGN interview that Sorcerer / Sage will not be nerfed.

[Orangerascal]

only goes to show the quality of the people whininig

[Sookster]

Actually, I think they said in an IGN interview that Sorcerer / Sage will not be nerfed.

 

Of course not, if you know about Warhammer online and the bright wizards and sorcs there, you'll know the turnout in this game. They did say all classes will get a balance review, but didn't say which class will get buff and which will get nerf.

[GeLopez]

only goes to show the quality of the people whininig

 

It's kind of hilarious because the forums were literally wrong to the extent that everything everyone was saying was the direct opposite of what was true. Everyone was crying about DPS Sorcerer / Sage and DPS Commando / Mercenary, and both those classes turned out to be the worst. Then everyone was saying Marauder / Sentinel was the worst, and it's turned out to be one of the best classes in organized PVP.

Edited March 11, 2012 by GeLopez

[Apocalypse-]

Of course not, if you know about Warhammer online and the bright wizards and sorcs there, you'll know the turnout in this game. They did say all classes will get a balance review, but didn't say which class will get buff and which will get nerf.

 

In anything more competitive than a pug warzone, sorcs/sages are barely above average. Vanguards, Sentinels, and Shadows are all far more powerful than Sages.

 

It's kind of hilarious because the forums were literally wrong to the extent that everything everyone was saying was the direct opposite of what was true. Everyone was crying about DPS Sorcerer / Sage and DPS Commando / Mercenary, and both those classes turned out to be the worst. Then everyone was saying Marauder / Sentinel was the worst, and it's turned out to be one of the best classes in organized PVP.

For the record, I said this numerous times on these boards. Everyone called me crazy.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[StrikingInsanity]

In anything more competitive than a pug warzone, sorcs/sages are barely above average. Vanguards, Sentinels, and Shadows are all far more powerful than Sages.

 

 

For the record, I said this numerous times on these boards. Everyone called me crazy.

 

Yes, get used to it. Intelligence and knowledge is often called "crazy" and "stupid" to the misinformed.

[Monterone]

In anything more competitive than a pug warzone, sorcs/sages are barely above average. Vanguards, Sentinels, and Shadows are all far more powerful than Sages.

 

 

For the record, I said this numerous times on these boards. Everyone called me crazy.

 

Agreed. Wish I'd spent more time in beta playing my shadow, I would have made my assassin my main instead of my sorcerer. Far more rewarding and fun to play as an assassin than a sorcerer.

[Apocalypse-]

Yes, get used to it. Intelligence and knowledge is often called "crazy" and "stupid" to the misinformed.

 

Eh, I've found saying that Sentinels are far closer to overpowered than underpowered gets me called a troll

[tamgros]

Were teams allowed to take all buffs or just the ones that their group represented?

 

Ie did the commando/van/van team do this with only the 5% end buff?

 

Not that I'm for buffing/nerfing sorcs, but Commando heals are obviously going to do the best in a confined space as they are basically tank heals.

 

Edit: but I agree that Sorcs/Sages are hardly overpowered...

 

I still think that commando/van/van isn't the optimal team, but it is better than most. Sentinal/mauraders get better once you get to a full 4 group.

Edited March 12, 2012 by tamgros

[GeLopez]

I think groups only got the buffs that they could provide themselves.

[ztee]

It's kind of hilarious because the forums were literally wrong to the extent that everything everyone was saying was the direct opposite of what was true. Everyone was crying about DPS Sorcerer / Sage and DPS Commando / Mercenary, and both those classes turned out to be the worst. Then everyone was saying Marauder / Sentinel was the worst, and it's turned out to be one of the best classes in organized PVP.

 

shhhhh, we must not let them know well played sents / mara's are OP .... I dont want to be nerfd!

[anwg]

Vanguard/vanguard/commando healer ended up winning the tournament.

 

The powertech/vanguard nerf coming in a bit should help balance things out a lot, but sage's still have the problem of dying instantly vs 2+ coordinated melee DPS.

 

Pretty much every ranged die instantly vs 2 melee, sniper might actually live the longest, if only because you can't jump to them.

[Orangerascal]

Eh, I've found saying that Sentinels are far closer to overpowered than underpowered gets me called a troll

 

This, our team has talked about stacking the melee pain train with 2 sentinels and a dps guardian.

 

I personally don't think any class is overpowered and believe each class fulfills a certain role. Most pugs don't know what their role is so they complain. If you let the merc or sage get free shots, then something is very wrong with then pug. Scoundrels who complain about mercs/sorc are an example of this.

 

This one personally gets to me because I melt full bm commandos and full bm sorcs in my champion geared scoundrel.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Redmarx]

Good stream, nice initiative.

 

I guess it does show what good players have known for a long time:

 

- Strong classes: powertechs, marauders, merc healers

 

- Weak classes: tracerspammers, sorcs, snipers

Edited March 12, 2012 by Redmarx

[LordZanos]

I've pretty sure that I've said on the forums several times that Marauders/Sentinels do far too much damage for how gosh darn survivable they are. On my server, some of the Republic guilds have already started stacking Commando healers and Sentinels. A Sentinel with a pocker healer is probably the single worst combination I can think of to have to fight.

 

Sages/Sorcs ruin people in random warzones because they're fairly easy to play, and have good flavor so there's more people playing them, and therefore more decent/good sorcs than any other class right now. People don't really notice the tons of terrible ones they are, because they don't make an impression.

Edited March 12, 2012 by LordZanos

[me_unknown]

In anything more competitive than a pug warzone, sorcs/sages are barely above average..

 

above avarage? so most are below sorcs/sages? no way. i would say they are in the buttom two, or at best bottom three. in any kind of pvp they are far down the bottom end as long as we are talking about level 50 and high t2 gear and upwards.

 

edit: talking about dd sages/sorcs.

Edited March 12, 2012 by me_unknown

[SeanPoe]

Pretty much every good players has known these things since they day they hit 50:

 

• Merc dps and Sorc dps are only good at crushing baddys and are the easiest class to negate (via interrupts and melee trains)
  
• Sorc's of any spec are by far the easiest class to kill for coordinated and skilled players
  
• Powertechs are the kings of burst and sustained burst and become even stronger in large groups because of the ganking potential of grapple
  
• Mara's are by far the hardest class to kill and do the second highest amount of burst and sustained damage after the powertech. They also bring insane amounts of group utility, notably essential buffs/debuffs (party healing, group-speed, 25% healing debuff, etc).
  
• Merc healers are the only viable healer in small-scale pvp encounters like 4v4s. The other two healers just die practically instantly and get locked down too easily.
  
• Assassins bring ridiculous amounts of utility (guard, taunt, knockback, sprint, semi-ranged cc/interrupts, 4-5 second force/tech immunity, stealth, enemy pull, etc) while having burst comparable to powertechs (with a longer setup time though) and being extremely difficult to kill (though significantly easier to kill than mara's)
  
• Imperial Agents (both AC's) have almost no place whatsoever in high-skill level play
  

 

TL;DR:

The only relevant classes are powertechs, marauders, assassins and merc healers. Every other class and spec is just a support class to help these classes excel even more.

[lightertripod]

Replay: http://www.twitch.tv/strikinginsanity/b/311379895

 

What to know:

- Sages / Sorcerers die instantly to coordinated melee even with taunts and Guard.

- Healing Commando / DPS Vanguard / DPS Vanguard won the whole thing.

- Sentinels / Marauders have an insane amount of survivability.

- In general, melee are completely destroying ranged. This is partially because of the size of the pit, but it's also largely because of how hard it is to kite two coordinated melee.

 

while I am sure this is fun to try BW have put a pvp model around 8 man groups (warzones) not 3 vs 3

 

although I did not need any one to tell me sents/Mara have insane survivability or that sages die to coordinated Melee DPS these are clear as day if you have played the game as clear as merc/commandos are no issue 1 on 1 for almost every class in game

 

I can see from the reply's already that this just fuels the fire of nerf/cry posts from whatever corner the the poster is in some using this as a basis or valdation of said Idea's

 

am I suprised that double vanguard dps with commando healer won in this format not at all best single target healer with 2 of the best burst damage dealers in the game not to mention best surviablity. vanguards have 2 weakeness first is they have zero escape options and the second is that after the burst they have ammo issues there DPS drops in a long fight neither of them are going to play a major issue in the format you played

 

none of this answers balance issue with any class but I am sure your post was not meant to be about that it was just the what to know makes it look like that and I can see lot of players have taken it that way

[me_unknown]

well, at least it is now obvious for many average people here that the forums are floated by people claiming to know everything about pvp and in fact are one of the worst, whining about other classes only because they suck.

 

well, actually it should have been already clear when people where whining about a sages dps and using their total wz damage as proof. while it is even more funny that the highes total damage record is held by two other classes.

[me_unknown]

while I am sure this is fun to try BW have put a pvp model around 8 man groups (warzones) not 3 vs 3

 

sages suck in 8vs8 even more.

 

and powertech can be specced to pvp tank with avarege damage. one of the best ways to paly it in grp pvp. giving him also an escape ability would make this class totally overpowered.

even his utilities are far better in grp pvp than those of a sage/sorc.