Vember Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I agree. But personally, i would prefer that to negating damage during UR. I never use UR as an escape mechanism. Who uses UR as an escape mechanism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgarib Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Who uses UR as an escape mechanism? The original poster is saying it should be used defensively, not offensively. To me, the only way to use a skill that mitigates 99% of incoming damage without being offensive is to pop the skill and run away. This is reinforced various times where he suggests the "fix" is to reduce damage output by 50% for its duration, which if was implemented, would pretty much FORCE you to pop it and run away. Read the first 10-20 pages of this thread and you'll get the idea. Marauders are not a defensive class. A "defensive" skill on a marauder is not meant for tanking, but for DPS upkeep. You should pop it in order to kill things and trying to remove it makes no sense. You should pop it to remain on the offensive as long as possible. There are many ways for a good player to mitigate this skill, which speaks of its balance. Is there a rare situation where the stars align and the heavens shine down? Sure. If the Marauder has a pocket healer, replenishing health after UR has been popped.. well.. shame on you. You should be focusing the healer / disabling the healer first anyway. Edited March 12, 2012 by jgarib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaldwin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Who uses UR as an escape mechanism? It is situational. I actually try and win the PVP matches now not spam a lot of damage, I deal a lot less damage (but strangely end up with more kills than before as a result of me Ling2P and actually killing the correct things efficiently). So I use this to escape in voidstar quite frequently people always chase leaving the door unguarded looking for that kill. I will run to the heals even when I know they aren't there as people just can't resist chasing cast Awe or force choke while they are away from the door and hope we get the cap in on the time it takes to wear down. . I should get objective points for that. I like how the original argument boils down to the sent only being at 10% with a medpack and a pocket healer and a full resolve bar, and leaps not on cooldown makes me overpowered. So silly. Good groups are all over my pocket healer, good groups know which slows and roots aren't affected by the resolve bar. Good groups have their own pocket healers to heal through a 5 sec unkillable bubble. Note: Sent/Maurs don't need this ability if they have a pocket healer and a tank taunting to kill a room full of people assuming they all focus on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Acherus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The original poster is saying it should be used defensively, not offensively. To me, the only way to use a skill that mitigates 99% of incoming damage without being offensive is to pop the skill and run away. This is reinforced various times where he suggests the "fix" is to reduce damage output by 50% for its duration, which if was implemented, would FORCE you to pop it and run away. Read the first 10-20 pages of this thread and you'll get the idea. Mauraders are not a defensive class. A "defensive" skill is not meant for tanking, but for DPS upkeep. You should pop it in order to kill things. You should pop it to remain on the offensive as long as possible. Take away the health penalty and reduce damage 50%. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warkat Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Uh yes, living 5s more than you SHOULD (pair it with vanish - another immunity to damage skill and its 9s) is nothing to write home about, i mean every class has it, amirite? We dont have a force knockback which is just as good knockback 500 yards force leap to them away from the 5 melee coming in...Hell on my Guardian i can pop saber ward/swap to tank stance and become godmode for 12 seconds while force sweeping you for over 5k. QQn about Maurders really? how about powertechs who can pump out 16k dmg in 5 seconds...u guys are funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Take away the health penalty and reduce damage 50%. Fixed. So then we have a 20% dr, a 25% force and tech dr + 50% defense and a 50% dr ability. So instead of being unkillable when were at low health for 5 seconds people will have issues even getting us to low health. UR currently is unique and interesting. If bad players want to blow their cc's on us when were at full health causing us to be able to use UR with no threat of cc so be it. If you're fighting a mara save your cc's for ur and he won't bother you during it. 5 seconds is not a lifetime, we can fit in 3 gcds in it. No smart player will die to that if they didn't blow cooldowns beforehand. I'd rather keep the ability than get another boring stun added to the game. I enjoy having no cc. Edited March 12, 2012 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakokun Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 So I heard people want to balance the game around 1vs1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgarib Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Take away the health penalty and reduce damage 50%. Fixed. I disagree. You're asking to take away one of the only things that allows us to survive, and do our job, only to replace it with a skill that allows us to run away just to die shortly after. When looking at things like this, you need to consider the big picture; what was the class designed to do? What is the role of the class in a group? What is the role of the class solo? UR is not that big of a deal.... 1. You can circumvent it. 2. It doesn't last long. 3. It is not spammable. 4. It requires planning/skill on part of the marauder in order to use effectively. Edited March 12, 2012 by jgarib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyFokker Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Who uses UR as an escape mechanism? People who want to die to DoTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ki-tec Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) It only lasts 5 secs. Most classes have at least 1 stun that lasts around 4 secs and an incapacitate that lasts longer. Then you have the snares, KBs and roots. I Dont see the problem with undying rage in its current form. Edited March 12, 2012 by Ki-tec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Add a bit more skill to it and make UR more interesting. Make it so attacking a mara who has UR active reflects damage back at attackers instead of 99% protection. I constantly see people firing off abilities on me when it's active, maybe that will teach them. There's no current spell reflect in this game, I'll take it. Edited March 12, 2012 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 There is a reason why blizzard nerfed the paladin bubble. Same reason Mara bubble needs to be fixed. You should not be able to do full dmg while being immune to pretty well everything. Make it so when a Mara uses this bubble its defensively and not offensively. Cut all damage and healing while bubble is up by 50%. I think its ok that you should be able to survive while its up but being able to kill multiple ppl while its up is just wrong and shouldnt be happening. There is a better solution than nerfing... Mara pops bubble, Stun. Mara wipes Stun. Pushback. Mara closes the distance, use a slow and kite them. It only lasts 5s, and the Mara is easy meat after it wears off. Anyone that goes toe-to-toe with a Mara while their bubble is up, is a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bklynfinest Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 There is a better solution than nerfing... Mara pops bubble, Stun. Mara wipes Stun. Pushback. Mara closes the distance, use a slow and kite them. It only lasts 5s, and the Mara is easy meat after it wears off. Anyone that goes toe-to-toe with a Mara while their bubble is up, is a moron. This. Bads will be bads. Can't count the # of times I've ran at low hp with bubble off CD just to have someone attack me, while I pop it and unload on them as they are trying to unload on me completely oblivious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 There is a better solution than nerfing... Mara pops bubble, Stun. Mara wipes Stun. Pushback. Mara closes the distance, use a slow and kite them. It only lasts 5s, and the Mara is easy meat after it wears off. Anyone that goes toe-to-toe with a Mara while their bubble is up, is a moron. Unless they have a healer and then they just jump up to full HP and continue the rampage. I think that's what the discussion is framed in: Organized PVP in preparation for rated Warzones. I'm not saying one way or the other, but you should keep the discussion within the appropriate frame of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Take away the health penalty and reduce damage 50%. Fixed. If they do this they also should increase the duration slightly to balance it (7 seconds should do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Unless they have a healer and then they just jump up to full HP and continue the rampage. I think that's what the discussion is framed in: Organized PVP in preparation for rated Warzones. I'm not saying one way or the other, but you should keep the discussion within the appropriate frame of mind. Good teams will simply CC the Mara and get someone on the healer to prevent topping them off. As said previously, it's a 5 second bubble, and there are a lot of 3-5 second stuns out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofortheko Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh please give me the 50% mitigation without health loss! I could start with 20% damage reduction from reboubt, then add in 50% from guarded by the force, and when that wears off I can use my other bubble, so I could mitigate a ton of damage at the beginning of the fight (when people burst) instead of just using it as a last resort like now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) If a mara is using this offensively then they are failing. This is an oh **** button, I pop mine when I am below 10%. Edited March 12, 2012 by JustinxDuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Unless they have a healer and then they just jump up to full HP and continue the rampage. I think that's what the discussion is framed in: Organized PVP in preparation for rated Warzones. I'm not saying one way or the other, but you should keep the discussion within the appropriate frame of mind. Oh please, if there is a healer on me and you are ignoring him you are going to die regardless if I pop guarded by the force or not, simple as that. Removing our survivability in 1vs1 just because we "might" have a healer is not how you balance abilities. Should we just not allow healers in wz's now? Edited March 12, 2012 by Raansu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Good teams will simply CC the Mara and get someone on the healer to prevent topping them off. As said previously, it's a 5 second bubble, and there are a lot of 3-5 second stuns out there. You're right, and that's generally my strategy is to CC them and try to put myself in their deadzone. I'm just saying that the idea that in an 8v8 you'll be able to lock down all their healers and keep him totally shutdown strikes me as far fetched. Then again, I pretty much exclusively solo que and have very limited experience against premades so I'm hardly an authority. Your arguement just seems like a cop-out to me (no offense). Either he or any of his healers could have their CC breaker off CD or full resolve, or vanish and your arguement is moot. As for the suggestions, if they got rid of the health requirement, reduced the damage, increased duration a few seconds, and increased the CD that might work. But at that point, aren't we just porting Paladin's bubble? I mean I guess if it works it works but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papas_Fritas Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh the ill informed masses complain again... 50 Marauder here and will try to inform all of the ignorant people flaming my class... First of all you all need to realize that the Marauder/Sentinel class has 3 defensive abilities. Undying Rage - 99% damage reduction over 5 seconds (spec-able to 100% in Rage Tree) Saber Ward - 50% damage reduction over 20ish seconds Cloak of Pain - 20% damage reduction over 30 seconds IF attacked continuously throughout a 30 second period. The marauder class is very squishy against a WELL ORGANIZED pvp team. Seriously if a Marauder uses Undying Rage and is being healed why were you not attacking the healer in the first place? Isn't that what ORGANIZED pvp teams do? Honestly I am tired of seeing ***hurt people on these forums complain about "broken" mechanics/gameplay when EVERY class has its own little overpowered ability whether it be stuns/heals/damage/etc. Stop complaining about a 5 second ability that in reality IS NOT game changing and just do what everyone else does, stun... wait for 5 seconds... kill... If you do remove this ability Marauders will just be kited around by pushes and stuns like they already are. Marauders have little survivability outside of heals/medpacks/abilities and if you remove their COSTLY ability to stay alive how do you expect them to even match up to a ranged class that will just push/stun them as soon as they get close... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh please, if there is a healer on me and you are ignoring him you are going to die regardless if I pop guarded by the force or not, simple as that. Removing our survivability in 1vs1 just because we "might" have a healer is not how you balance abilities. Should we just not allow healers in wz's now? Again, the framing of the thread originally was looking at it from a rated warzones perspective. You're going to have a healer there. This move basically makes sentinels/mauraders invalid hard switch targets because of their two defensive CDs on a (relatively) short timer. However, they are also at the disadvantage of being a melee class so maybe they deserve that kind of protection. It's like I said, I'm not neccesarily against the move in it's current iteration I just don't like people intentionally ignoring information that doesn't coincide with their skewed view of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgarib Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) You're right, and that's generally my strategy is to CC them and try to put myself in their deadzone. I'm just saying that the idea that in an 8v8 you'll be able to lock down all their healers and keep him totally shutdown strikes me as far fetched. Then again, I pretty much exclusively solo que and have very limited experience against premades so I'm hardly an authority. Your arguement just seems like a cop-out to me (no offense). Either he or any of his healers could have their CC breaker off CD or full resolve, or vanish and your arguement is moot. As for the suggestions, if they got rid of the health requirement, reduced the damage, increased duration a few seconds, and increased the CD that might work. But at that point, aren't we just porting Paladin's bubble? I mean I guess if it works it works but... And you assume you wont have a marauder/sent on your team as well. And before you say it... an organized 8 man ranked match should have its classes CAREFULLY carefully. That's part of the strategy. Just like a sorc healer will be integral to an 8 man for the possible brez, a marauder will be integral for its group buffs and damage output. Know you're going up against a guild that likes to play tank heavy?? triple stack healers and the rest DPS FTW. Edited March 12, 2012 by jgarib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundartwothree Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sometimes just to mess with people, I'll use Gaurded by the Force when I first engage someone in a 1v1 fight, that way they think I'm squishy, or they got some fantastic big crit, then they realize they're hitting me for 4 damage and I'm quickly carving their face off with my sabers. Gaurded by the Force is the best WZ trolling tool if used properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastersloup Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) So i was kiting this marauder by backpedalling, spamming my ranged snare and knockback/stun everytime he force charge, then he used undying rage and he hit once before dying *** is this nonsense BW? Stupid community. Edited March 12, 2012 by mastersloup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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