1.2's splitting PvP / PvE gear will irreversibly DAMAGE the game.

[RealAeiouy]

Why do you like having to sort through 15 pieces of gear to get it right.

 

Am I doing PvP content? Yes.

 

Okay, well what is my expertise rating at? Can I afford to stick a Columi/Rakata piece in there?

 

That kind of thinking and needless complexity boggles my mind.

 

Most of you people in this thread saying it should be separate are WoW vets only. You're not even MMO vets. You have no experience with a game that didn't have a PvP stat.

 

HINT: ONLY ONE OTHER GAME HAS A PVP STAT AND IT'S NAME is World of Warcraft. Which is basically the only other MMO most of you have ever played.

 

Geez people like that are ruining this genre. You have no idea what true PvP is, and that developers can and HAVE balanced PvP and PvE gear progression in the past. DaOC is the best example of this, and most of you never played it.

 

GW1 and GW2 have balanced this and honestly, while I was tired of all the D&D fantasy I might have to give it a try and cancel this sub if Bioware keeps dividing their community.

 

They are going to have to do server mergers soon. 200-300 people online at primetime for most servers is a bad sign. Xfire says 50% or more dropoff since launch. The game is going bye bye right before our eyes and EA CAN AND WILL put this game into maintenance mode just like they did with WaR. And it will be the fault of you WoW "vets" and your crappy community killing design.

 

 

 

I have certainly played more mmogs than you and not having different gear is horrible. The only reason older games did not do it was because pvp was a red headed step child. With pvpers being a much bigger part of the player base they have to allow pvp players to get gear from pvp. Once you do that it is game over. There is no way to balance a single set of gear for pve and pvp that can be acquired via pve of pvp

 

Name one game that successfully do it. Don't take too long as none exist. For it to be balanced all pvpers would have to feel pvp was the best way to get that one set of gear while all pve players would have to feel pve is the best way to get the exact same gear. That is impossible to accomplish and if you don't accomplish it one of both sounds of gameplay will be seriously harmed.

[ocping]

I don't see what's wrong. All I see is "I have to PVP to get gear that's good in PVP". Wow, you don't say.

 

Expertise should be the top stat for PVPers. The current state where PVPers mix in PVE gear is wrong. I'm scoundrel and the 2piece rakata bonus is too good to ignore since expertise gets DRs past 10ish% (which it shouldn't).

[RealAeiouy]

The separation of gear was a mistake, it was a bandaid solution that WoW started that became a "good design" idea for every game that followed.

 

Its a solution that creates more problems then it solves.

 

In another thread I mentioned this. Gear is a gateway mechanism. MMOs use gear to control content access. Hence, the term PvE progression. PvP progression is counter productive to encouraging pvp participation.

 

The simple solution is pvp stat capping , no matter what gear you are wearing there is is a cap (which is published and known, for all classes and all attributes). This cap should be easily achievable within the first couple of days of reaching 50.

 

PvP should not be about gear. If MMOs want to create a more balanced experience for "bad" players, the solution is a rating system that ensures players of a similiar skill level are generally matched against each other. Adding gear imbalances simple makes this harder.

 

However, in the end MMOs focus, is to make money and addict players to their game. It seems the easiest way to do this is to associate worth with time played. IE the more you grind in the game the better gear you get, giving you the advantage. Therefore players play more and longer to be the best. This solution has proven easier and more reliable then creating a game that has addictive GAMEPLAY.

 

 

So pvp players have to be able to get the best pvp gear from pvp. Fine so then everyone in the game pvps with many pvers half arsing it to get their gear. This ruins pvp and pve. Your solution does not resolve the actual problems.

 

You need to make it so the best gear for pvp comes from pvp and the best gear for pve comes from pve. On top of that it needs to be the MOST desirable route for pvp and pve players respectively.

 

I haven't seen any of the proposed alternatives accomplish those goals.

[RealAeiouy]

I miss the good old days where pve and pvp were mized. Ultima online, everquest. these kids ruin games and then complain they have got exactly what they want, but not in the way they wanted it.

 

GW2 will fix it.

 

This is something a pver would say. Pvp players never liked having to pve to get gear.

[fungihoujo]

Currently, to be best pvp you need to do NM ops to get a mix of gear- that's a problem, if you want to focus on pvp you never should have to do endgame pve, and vice versa.

 

Good thing they're splitting it for real- only other reasonable solution would have been to have no difference at all- but then pvers would've been angry that pvpers could get easy gear and miss out on the vital 'grind this boss a hundred times to progress' part of pve.

[ocping]

Currently, to be best pvp you need to do NM ops to get a mix of gear- that's a problem, if you want to focus on pvp you never should have to do endgame pve, and vice versa.

 

Good thing they're splitting it for real- only other reasonable solution would have been to have no difference at all- but then pvers would've been angry that pvpers could get easy gear and miss out on the vital 'grind this boss a hundred times to progress' part of pve.

 

Exactly. This thread is made by PVEers who are either too lazy to PVP to get the gear or just plain suck at PVP so they avoid it and YET they have the galls to complain about PVP and PVE gear being split (which should've been the case in the first place).

[LordSkyywalker]

Yea it's good that their doing this. They should be separate after all they are completely different.

[Strifegambit]

People are soo lazy nowdays, i prefer 2 sets of gear, if i want to pve i have my gear for that if i want to pvp i use my gear for that,

Stop complaining about everything splitting the community apart, have a look at these forums, theres no community here anyway just ragers everywhere you look, the odd nice guy/gal here and there.

[charlesbronZon]

I support the OP!

on one condition of course: I can acquire BIS gear from doing pvp only.

 

I would simply LOVE to see all the drama the pve community would produce because of that.

 

So Bioware, I pay you to entertain me, go do it!

After all carebear tears are fueling my ship... uhm I mean my lightsaber

[Cernow]

PvP and PVE gear should be seperate, it causes too many balance problems (in both PvP and PVE) if they aren't.

 

BUT ....

 

If Bioware are going to expect people to maintain two different sets of gear, PVE and PvP, then they MUST give players dual spec so they can maintain two different builds to suit these two very different aspects of the game. Many people need to have a certain build for PVE purposes but also like to PvP and for many classes this means a rather different build is needed in order to be competitive in PvP.

 

I really don't mind being expected to put on PvP gear when I want to PvP. But I *DO* mind having to respec every time I want to switch between PvP and PVE.

 

Dual spec is the obvious solution.

 

Separate PVE and PvP gear + dual spec = everyone happy.

[Axlah]

The reason PvE gear was so dominant in PvP in vanilla WOW was that there wasn't PvP gear available of a equivalent tier to the PvE stuff. The SWTOR equivalent would be that if no PvP sets existed and you could only get at best Tionese from PvP no matter your valor rank and Rakata from PvE giving a clear advantage to people who got their gear from PvE content.

 

SWTOR doesn't have that problem as BM = Rakata. Now if only they could just dump expertise as it's a daft idea and give the two sets identical stats. It might actually get more people into PvP as they could do FP's for a decent set of gear rather than getting facestomped for the first couple of weeks in WZ's while they get a set of expertise gear. Alternatively PvP'ers would be able to run Ops more effectively without have the dead weight (in PvE) of expertise on their gear.

 

Everyone Wins!

Edited March 13, 2012 by Axlah

[Sugarray]

Now try taking your BM gear into 16 man nightmare mode and tell me you keep up....cause you don't.

 

Bold statement, if all my guildies had BM gear I'd try that, and im fairly sure we would succeed. PvE in this game is not hard.. yet.

[ocping]

Bold statement, if all my guildies had BM gear I'd try that, and im fairly sure we would succeed. PvE in this game is not hard.. yet.

 

You'd not meet DPS reqs for nightmare I'm pretty sure. HM is normal mode so it's alright.

[AidenPryde]

The bottom line is sharing one set of gear ruins pvp and pve. Having seperate gear with bis for both sides are gained respectively is the only way to go.

 

If pvers can get gear afking warzones they will because they don't care about ruining pvp for pvp players. This floods warzones with quitters, losers and slackers and seriously hurts pvp.

 

Conversely with so many people fonng king that it reduces the people trying to pve and gives less reason to pve.

 

One set of gear is the worst of both worlds. The ideal solution is the best earned gear in pvp is VASTLY superior to any pve gear for pvp and the best pve gear is VASTLY superior for pve than any pvp gear. For people who want to do both, count yourself lucky to have that much more to do.

 

The absolute worst solution is a single set of gear. There is no way to balance it so pve players pve and pvp players pvp. That means most players will be very dissatisfied.

 

Another WoW player attempting to ruin another MMO and the genre as a whole.

 

You have no idea that DAOC was able to balance PvE and PvP perfectly without the requirement that there be multiple gearsets for every activity in the game.

 

I hate to say it. But go back to WoW. Your limited imagination is going to ruin this game if the devs don't do it for you.

 

The fact that there are only TWO MMOs in existence that have a stat that only effects PvP should tell you that most developers don't think it is necessary. But it doesn't, so please. Go back to WoW where you belong.

[AidenPryde]

Exactly. This thread is made by PVEers who are either too lazy to PVP to get the gear or just plain suck at PVP so they avoid it and YET they have the galls to complain about PVP and PVE gear being split (which should've been the case in the first place).

 

Wrong. I am full BM, haven't done a single HM/NM raid. All I do is PvP and even I think it is stupid to divide the community.

 

If Bioware does this, you will have the same crappy community that WoW has. You will continue to have a split between people that enjoy playing mostly PvP and people that enjoy mostly PvE.

 

My God. How can you all not see how resilience ruined WoW's community.

[DarkDruidSS]

My God. How can you all not see how resilience ruined WoW's community.

 

Resilience wasn't the only thing that ruined WoW's community.

[L-RANDLE]

This is exactly what has to be done.Splitting community. If i want to join an other I must spend efforts as others do. Being in a operation with pvp gear or performing better then a tier 1 pvp geared player with my end game operation drops is unfair. PVE geared players must be foods of pvp geared people and pvp geared people shouldnt get an invite to operations.

 

Solution is buffing expertise.

 

I got railed in another thread for sugessting the same thing.. People don't realize that expertise is a serious nerf to PvE gear, level to level. If I put BM mods in my columi, I am only small steps away from Rakata...

[me_unknown]

I mostly pvp. If I go do the top tier pve operation in nightmare mode and die then I won't want to pve anymore either.

of course! why should you

1. want to skip all the stuff before the operation?

2. be able to skip it ?

 

you want pvp gear to skip pve content to jump only to what you want? that's not doing pve. pve is about progression.

[TUXs]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

I agree 100% with you!!!

 

This is a HORRIBLE idea and it'll cause nothing but problems. Bioware is foolish to do this.

[me_unknown]

I agree 100% with you!!!

 

This is a HORRIBLE idea and it'll cause nothing but problems. Bioware is foolish to do this.

 

how does experitse prevent people of enyoing both parts of the game?

 

without pvp gear you must go through ALL pve content to get to the top gear.

with expertise on pvp gear you CAN and STILL have to do the save FOR PVE.

 

it prevents nothing that you wouldn't already have regarding pve.

 

what it actually prevents is THIS:

as a pvp player you need not to do/grind ENDLESS PVE to be competitive in pvp, while new pve content with better gear enters the game.

 

no really, this community is really... well...

[DilowBee]

This is just the same hate PvErs have always had for PvPers in jealousy of thier reflex and skill. Watching a video and doing what the AI requires to progress takes no skill. Fighting a group of real life people takes something I call...skill.

 

They claim that we will wipe them in PvE if we don't have the experience needed to defeat the encounter, but I have some news for you. ANYONE CAN WATCH A VIDEO lol

[Lord_Karsk]

That they made pvp and pve gear is just plain stupid.

There should be cosmetic difference only and different tiers.

So players do do what they hell they wanted to do.

With a system like this you would not have any issues what so ever in

the game when it comes to gear progression.But bioware wanted to

copy paste wow. Patetic.

[plompkin]

Does anyone remember Season 5 Arena in WOTLK? Betrayer of Humanity fury warriors killing people in 3 GCDs? DKs with Inevitable Defeat and raid tank gear were #1 for the longest time because they had chain cc and were practically unkillable.

 

Also part of the reason PvP gear was created was that IMS warriors were 1 shotting people in vanilla using...oh. Raid gear.

 

Yeah, splitting them is TOTALLY a bad idea.

[Burnsick]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

You sounds like a whiny PvE'er.

[Battilea]

That they made pvp and pve gear is just plain stupid.

There should be cosmetic difference only and different tiers.

So players do do what they hell they wanted to do.

 

The problem is that what you have to do for the gear isn't equal. Never will be. Gear is used in PvE to gate content. In PvP, however, you want gear to be a bit closer, else fights are one sided, people get sick of being owned hardcore, and quit PvP'ing. So PvP gear has to be more accessible.

 

However, if PvE gear is allowed to ramp up and PvP gear doesn't, then PvE gear becomes a requirement to PvP. And if you make PvP gear equal, then people feel like they have to PvP so they can have an easier time with PvE content.

 

In short, for people to do what they want, you need the separate system, you need a stat like expertise. That way, PvPers PvP, PvEers PvE, and those that do both do both.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Battilea