1.2's splitting PvP / PvE gear will irreversibly DAMAGE the game.

[Dafroog]

PvP gear is needed in a game where stats on gear determine how hard you hit, if you didnt then raiders would dominate pvp, if you allowed pvp to be the same as raid gear then people could affectively leap frog content, niether of which is good for the game.

 

The negative this brings is a gap in power between newly dinged 50's and those that have been PvPing for a while, it makes PvP frustrating when you first enter the 50+ bracket, removing the volor req on PvP gear along side adding a starter pvp set in 1.2 will make this pretty much a non issue tho

[Drakoir]

cause having 2 sets of gear(one for pve and one for pvp) is insanely hard to do....

Dam lazy ppl

 

right!

[me_unknown]

The negative this brings is a gap in power between newly dinged 50's and those that have been PvPing for a while, it makes PvP frustrating when you first enter the 50+ bracket, removing the volor req on PvP gear along side adding a starter pvp set in 1.2 will make this pretty much a non issue tho

 

you are right. though i can't understand why for so many people it is frustrating as fresh 50. when i got first time 50 it was nothing frustrating nor uncommon. yeah, i was weak as fresh 50, so what.... it took me only a weak with a low amount of time needed to gear up enough to hold my line.

 

and now it will be even easier. i'm fine with that but i find it absurd that anybody found an issue with that before.

[Dafroog]

you are right. though i can't understand why for so many people it is frustrating as fresh 50. when i got first time 50 it was nothing frustrating nor uncommon. yeah, i was weak as fresh 50, so what.... it took me only a weak with a low amount of time needed to gear up enough to hold my line.

 

and now it will be even easier. i'm fine with that but i find it absurd that anybody found an issue with that before.

 

Agreed, I didnt find it any worse than in any other mmo tbh, however I think making the transition to 50+ pvp easier is a good thing on the whole

[AidenPryde]

More relevant question to ask is this:

 

Are the developers stupid?

 

I spend probably 70% of my time PvPing. But I, like a lot of people enjoy taking a break from the competitive and sometimes stressful PvP environments to do some hard modes and Operations.

 

Who is Bioware to say, that my most enjoyed pastime (PvP), is not applicable in PvE anymore?

 

Why don't they just increase the amount of time it takes to get Champion and BM gear, remove expertise and normalize stats across the tiers of gear, regardless of whether or not it was PvP or PvE gear.

 

I'm tired of segmented and divided communities based on different people's activities.

 

END IT NOW.

Edited March 12, 2012 by AidenPryde

[DarthSunshine]

PVP gear should be split from PVE.

 

Anyone who says otherwise doesnt want to lose their awesome Rakata set bonuses.

[me_unknown]

More relevant question to ask is this:

 

Are the developers stupid?

 

I spend probably 70% of my time PvPing. But I, like a lot of people enjoy taking a break from the competitive and sometimes stressful PvP environments to do some hard modes and Operations.

 

Who is Bioware to say, that my most enjoyed pastime (PvP), is not applicable in PvE anymore?

 

Why don't they just increase the amount of time it takes to get Champion and BM gear, remove expertise and normalize stats across the tiers of gear, regardless of whether or not it was PvP or PvE gear.

 

I'm tired of segmented and divided communities based on different people's activities.

 

END IT NOW.

 

i am tiered on having to grind my gear again in pve over and over again only to do pvp!

 

this is what you would get if your wishes come true!

pvp always only based on gear grinding and not on skill. because you can grind for better gear in pve or you have to skip gear progression at all, for pve too! but pve without gear progression is quite pointless.

[AidenPryde]

This is my topic of discussion in another post as well. Expertise should not be gear based, but something awarded for holding objective based pvp points in the world. It should be a bonus to stats that can be won or lost depending upon who controls what.

 

EDIT: PvP gear should just be another way to earn raid level gear without having to grind out HMs.

 

I just had an a great idea.

 

What if Expertise was not based on your gear, but instead on your valor level.

 

Everyone could get gear via coms and stuff still, but they normalized the PvP and PvE gear, and maybe increased the cost of PvP gear to make it more like PvE gear in terms of the grind.

 

So say you were valor rank 50. You would have a PvP reduction of say 8%. At valor 60 it would be 10%, at 100, 11%.

 

There are your diminishing returns without dividing the community, and the raiders wouldn't be able to completely dominate PvP.

[AidenPryde]

PVP gear should be split from PVE.

 

Anyone who says otherwise doesnt want to lose their awesome Rakata set bonuses.

 

I don't have any Rakata gear. Your argument is already shot through.

[me_unknown]

I just had an a great idea.

 

What if Expertise was not based on your gear, but instead on your valor level.

 

Everyone could get gear via coms and stuff still, but they normalized the PvP and PvE gear, and maybe increased the cost of PvP gear to make it more like PvE gear in terms of the grind.

 

So say you were valor rank 50. You would have a PvP reduction of say 8%. At valor 60 it would be 10%, at 100, 11%.

 

There are your diminishing returns without dividing the community, and the raiders wouldn't be able to completely dominate PvP.

 

this is your great idea?

 

actually it would be the same as if you wouldn't have expertise at all, beside that people that do more pvp are owning people that are doing it only from time to time, regardless of their skills!

 

you would still need to grind for better pve gear as better pve gear makes you better. it would be an endless gear grind for pvp'ers.

 

man, really.... what's this?

Edited March 12, 2012 by me_unknown

[GrandMike]

you can't have this and a skilled pvp together!

 

you either have always to grind pve to be competitive in pvp as soon as there comes new pve content with better pve gear or you have to seperate pvp gear from pve gear.

 

so you have to chose:

1. pvp by skill and not by endless grinding gear

OR

2. pvp gear good for pve and pvp even with pve progress.

 

both is not possible. at least i have no idea how you could achive such a thing.

 

Make gear the same and problem solved.

 

In the end im proponent of sidegrades not upgrades for PvP AND PvE. Whole "gear progression" is paper thin anyway, things are not harder just require more "x tier" gear.

 

Why wouldnt you make the grind towards stats you want, not more stats? Maybe a very small difference like between 22-23 (crafted-tionese/centurion)and 24-25(columi-champion/rakata-BM) mods.

 

Or different set boni - that is to a degree implemented, but upgradeed boni, like +10% crit chance becomes 11/12% crit chance etc.

 

Or hunting for specific set boni....there can be a lot of ways for "progression" without escalating stats at all.

Edited March 12, 2012 by GrandMike

[tenehuini]

I don't care to raid so as long as the pvp gear can get me through HM flashpoints & solo content, I'm fine.

 

I think this sums it up pretty well.

[Niddhog]

I don't want to do pve content. It is the same in this game as every game like it before it. I want to pvp. I like pvp because the players I face are more dynamic (most of the time) than some scripted encounter that follows the same rules every time you do it.

 

Allowing pve gear to outshine pvp gear (or even have a place in pvp) forces me to do pve to compete in pvp. I really do not want this. I can't imagine slugging through the ops and HMs over and over doing the exact same thing just to have the gear I need to be viable in pvp.

 

Sure, I play huttball over and over, but it is always different. Ops bossses are always the same. Always. It is fun a few times, then its stale, to me, anyway. I know that is a fun aspect for many, and that is great! I am glad the game has an outlet for those people's passions.

 

Mine, however, is pvp. I want to log in for a bit, pvp with all 4 of my pvp characters, do the dailies, see who is playing, and crush some skulls (or get crushed, depending on who I am facing).

 

The day I have to trudge through Ops every week to be able to compete in pvp is the day I hang it up.

 

 

This... why should people with no interest in one side or the other feel pressured to do what they loather to be competitive? To gear up for operations as afresh 50 I basically was forced into PvP gear for champion tokens. In the time it took me to do a hardmode (or less) I could get a champion bag with a fair chance (before the change, ofc) of getting near columni level of gear. I could also do this solo w/out the headache of pulling a group together/losing the roll on a gear. In fact, it was just recently i replaced the last of my champion gear (earpiece, God I hate dailies), and we are doing NM level raids.

 

The flip side is to be truly "competitive" in pvp, you put on 400 expertise worth of gear (more or less 10%) then stack the rest with rakata (top tier pve). Why? because the diminishing returns on expertise just aren't worth the increase in stats on the pve gear.

 

You keep mentioning the animosity between the groups.... even if the gear is the same there will still be the hardcore pvpers spewing hate at the "carebear scrubs" screwing up their warzone/pretending to be "pvpers" Come on... this is human nature we are talking about... on teh intrawebz no less! People will always find a way to be bitter/petty.... its the only way some people can survive (by rising themselves above a perceived "lessor" group, aka carebears).

[me_unknown]

Make gear the same and problem solved.

no. because pve is about gear progression.

pve is about introducing new content, with harder opponents which provide you as reward better gear.

 

this is pve.

 

so if you would do this you would kill pve totally.

 

pve is about story and rewards in form of gear and a continues introduction of new and challanging content. this enforces gear progression as one of the main aspects of fun in pve.

 

but gear progression is a pvp-killer! you can't get both under one hat!

[GrandMike]

no. because pve is about gear progression.

pve is about introducing new content, with harder opponents which provide you as reward better gear.

 

this is pve.

 

so if you would do this you would kill pve totally.

 

pve is about story and rewards in form of gear and a continues introduction of new and challanging content. this enforces gear progression as one of the main aspects of fun in pve.

 

but gear progression is a pvp-killer! you can't get both under one hat!

 

No its not, same i can make argument that PvP is about gear progression only, and removing gear progression will kill PvP. Baseless arguments.

 

Simply switch "harder PvE content" with "harder PvP content (in case of PvP other players are content)".

 

Bad argument you have there.

Edited March 12, 2012 by GrandMike

[me_unknown]

This... why should people with no interest in one side or the other feel pressured to do what they loather to be competitive? To gear up for operations as afresh 50 I basically was forced into PvP gear for champion tokens.

 

that is wrong! you can do flashpoints and gear up in pve. actually it is the expected way for a pve progess that before you go into operatives you first go into feroic flashpoints!

 

the fact that you could do it more easier by doing some pvp is just an alternative way. actually it is another reason why the effect of expertise should get increased much much more. you could lower the other stats on pvp gear so it would not be viable to use pvp gear for what you did. and instead do the intended way of first gearing up in heroic flashpoints!

[me_unknown]

No its not, same i can make argument that PvP is about gear progression only, and removing gear progression will kill PvP.

 

Bad argument you have there.

 

no. in pvp you wan't to compare your skills against the skills of other palyers. thus it is skill and skill progession. gear progression would not allow this.

 

in pve you have a story and difficulty progression which you only can achieve if there goes a gear progession along with it.

 

harder pvp content is better playing players. using better equip to compensate your lack of skills is a form of cheating.

 

that is the reason why in every competitive sport there is a gear limit!

Edited March 12, 2012 by me_unknown

[GrandMike]

no. in pvp you wan't to compare your skills against the skills of other palyers. thus it is skill and skill progession. gear progression would not allow this.

 

in pve you have a story and difficulty progression which you only can achieve if there goes a gear progession along with it.

 

Maybe for you subjectively it is about that, in PvE i also want to compare my group skill to another group skill and gear gets in the way.

 

You DONT have difficulty progression in PvE, you have GEAR progression. GEAR =/= DIFFICULTY

[dannomite]

Pretty sure they were planning on toning down expertise not buffing it, or rather its scaling, in order to make avoid making fresh 50s/Centurians cannon fodder for BMs.

[me_unknown]

Maybe for you subjectively it is about that, in PvE i also want to compare my group skill to another group skill and gear gets in the way.

but you can do this. you get new content that you have to fight with your old gear, like others do. so there is your pve competition.

 

You DONT have difficulty progression in PvE, you have GEAR progression. GEAR =/= DIFFICULTY

 

sure you have. i enver saw a mmo without it. you get new content that is more difficult than the one before. that's one of the reasons for the gear progression. and it is the motivator for most people to continue.

 

if the difficulty of the encounters would not increase too, pve would got so boring with your iimproved gear that no one would play it anymore.

 

you have gear progression to keep up with the difficulty progression of pve.

[me_unknown]

Pretty sure they were planning on toning down expertise not buffing it, or rather its scaling, in order to make avoid making fresh 50s/Centurians cannon fodder for BMs.

 

no. to make up for the fresh 50s they are making it easier to get the pvp gear when you hit 50. but expertise is going to be buffed.

[venjinze]

I just came here to tell everyone that the sky is falling.

 

damn it

[Anetsetsouken]

Reading these forums really makes my faith in humanity decline. This change is good. It is already insanely easy to score pve gear, and semi easy to score pvp gear. The laziness of using one type of gear for another facet of the game is undeniable. These buffoons will only be happy when all gear is given out for free. The argument that wow was ruined by arena is always coming up, and people always point to the fact that a wow dev said so himself. He said class balancing due to arena made it bad, NOT resilience. Easy is not fun, ffs.

[noebert]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

The reason they introduced resilience into WoW's pvp gear is because the pvp'ers were complaining about being unable to do anything to the end-game pve raid geared people who would join matches. The only way to be competitive at that time was to raid 40mans to get the best gear in the game. PvP'ers weren't about that and wanted their own assortment. WoW introduced resilience gear to make it attractive to pvp'ers but not so much for those who primarily raid.

 

Now, the other side of that would be if you removed expertise from this games pvp gear the pve'ers would be the ones complaining that gear is far too easy to get as they have to go through, by comparison, difficult and long encounters to get equivalent gear pvp'ers can get through a much easier method which would kill off pve content. Sure, you do it for fun no doubt however I'm sure many players don't simply pvp or pve and do a mixture of both, where this presents a problem.

[GrandMike]

but you can do this. you get new content that you have to fight with your old gear, like others do. so there is your pve competition.

 

No you cant if you dont start at SAME time as others, you cant jump to latest tier etc...doesnt matter, principle is the same.

 

sure you have. i enver saw a mmo without it. you get new content that is more difficult than the one before. that's one of the reasons for the gear progression. and it is the motivator for most people to continue.

 

if the difficulty of the encounters would not increase too, pve would got so boring with your iimproved gear that no one would play it anymore.

 

you have gear progression to keep up with the difficulty progression of pve.

 

Increasing HP/damage on monsters and adding gear checks is not difficulty. In fact very few encounters actually follow difficulty curve, OTOH gear curve - YES.