Chard_Wreck Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 TOP pve guilds in the world also ran the top pvp teams? And this is a good thing how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruit_Salad Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The "resilience overhaul" didn't cause the dramatic drop in arena participation in WotLK. Rating requirements on every single piece of PvP gear did. and making the rating provide cosmetic only upgrades increased it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirialol Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 The "resilience overhaul" didn't cause the dramatic drop in arena participation in WotLK. Rating requirements on every single piece of PvP gear did. long ago they removed rating requirements in gears (only requirement is now tier2 weapon) and arena participations stayed the same :/ once community is divided most pver's with zero pvp gear won't even give arena 'a try' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirialol Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 And this is a good thing how? it shows that people actually cared about pvp at one point now majority of players in wow are pvers that bash PVP on the forums. they don't step a foot in arena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jundi Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) this is why they shouldn't even have expertise it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht? This is my topic of discussion in another post as well. Expertise should not be gear based, but something awarded for holding objective based pvp points in the world. It should be a bonus to stats that can be won or lost depending upon who controls what. EDIT: PvP gear should just be another way to earn raid level gear without having to grind out HMs. Edited March 10, 2012 by Jundi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puggy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) The reason for having separate gear for PvP and PvE is to prevent players from skipping over the content. End-game PvP is a different time sink than PvE. The devs don't want someone getting all the PvP gear then jumping to do the top tier Operations and miss out on the earlier Operation content. Same goes the other way, they don't want a top tier raider to hop into PvP and bypass all the PvP content (there is no real content progression for PvP, but its the same idea. To be allowed to compete with the top end PvPers, you are supposed to earn it by going through the standard PvP warzone quota). IMO BioWare is on the right track with this. They have stated that they don't want to use gated systems that lock you out completely (aka raid keying to force you to play through the mind numbingly easy content first to be allowed into the challenging stuff), so making gear, modified slightly by player skill, the determining factor is good. If a group is just really good at the game, they may be able to skip tier one content, but generally you flow through the content as you get the better gear. They don't want you to get the good gear from one content path and use it to skip over most of the other content path. If you want to play both types of content, then just build up two sets of gear. Edited March 10, 2012 by Puggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ra_tm Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I pvp'ed enough to get 3 characters to battlemasters and 2 of those also own a full rakata set. I enjoy both part of the game. Why cant you? Because some people actually have a life outside of this game... Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illidor Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 once community is divided most pver's with zero pvp gear won't even give arena 'a try' Please see my edit above. Anyway, to add to that, the problem with WoW was that the entry barrier for PvP was beyond ridiculous. If you stepped into a BG or Arena with no PvP gear, especially late into an expansion, you got creamed over and over, and that simply wasn't fun. I suppose in that sense, I am agreeing with you, but I don't think resilience itself was the culprit. I think the ridiculous time investment needed to acquire an initial set of PvP gear to be competitive was. I think BioWare is fully aware that the same problem exists in SWTOR, though I don't believe it's to the same extent as in WoW, and they are taking measures to fix it, with a PvP starter set being added in 1.2 (not sure if that's what the "champion gear for credits" in 1.2 posts are about, I haven't seen any official source for that). Regardless, there needs to be a difference in PvP and PvE gear. The best PvP gear needs to come from strictly PvP, and the best PvE gear needs to come strictly from PvE. Now, someone in full Battlemaster gear should be able to step into a flashpoint or operation and do a respectable job, but he should be at a disadvantage compared to the person in full Rakata gear. Same thing goes the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudmungus Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The reason for having separate gear for PvP and PvE is to prevent players from skipping over the content. End-game PvP is a different time sink than PvE. The devs don't want someone getting all the PvP gear then jumping to do the top tier Operations and miss out on the earlier Operation content. Same goes the other way, they don't want a top tier raider to hop into PvP and bypass all the PvP content (there is no real content progression for PvP, but its the same idea. To be allowed to compete with the top end PvPers, you are supposed to earn it by going through the standard PvP warzone quota). IMO BioWare is on the right track with this. They have stated that they don't want to use gated systems that lock you out completely (aka raid keying to force you to play through the mind numbingly easy content first to be allowed into the challenging stuff), so making gear, modified slightly by player skill, the determining factor is good. If a group is just really good at the game, they may be able to skip tier one content, but generally you flow through the content as you get the better gear. They don't want you to get the good gear from one content path and use it to skip over most of the other content path. If you want to play both types of content, then just build up two sets of gear. This. ./hug BanthaBro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maticlandarr Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I just came here to tell everyone that the sky is falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veyl Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It would be nice if those master designers out there could figure out a way to have Gear function in a specific manner based on if the player is Flagged or not. It would take a lot of tweaking but still. (Making up a base number, it would probably be lower in a realistic situation.) PVE setting: Headpiece = 6 cunning PvP setting: Headpiece = 6 cunning which provides 3 Expertise when flagged. If they could do this, then the top tier that a player can play at, will reflect in what they're wearing and they could play in both settings with their buddies if they felt like it. Tier One: Normal Raids // Warzone commendation bought gear. Tier Two: Hard modes // Specific rating to a certain point. Tier Three: Nightmare Modes // High rating over tier 2's max point. (Once rateds occur, this would keep players capped at how much gear they'd be able to obtain per week) t1 = easy to obtain a set, t2= takes some work and t3 = top players. Of course, this is heavily reliant on just how hard Nightmare Mode will actually be and the rating system they come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icyflesh Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The problem with PvP and PvE sharing gear is that atm it is WAY easier to get the best PvP gear compared to the best PvE gear and that means people will do PvP to get the best gear even if they dont want to do PvP. Now sometime has past and that player has gotten the best gear in the game from doing PvP and he can do PvE no problem now, but now there is no reward in doing PvE and he will do a raid once or twice then quit, same goes for PvP if someone gets the very best from PvE and then starts PvP it won't last for very long, because people want a reward for PvPing or PvEing, some might say i don't care about gear and I just love PvE or PvP, but that is a VERY small percent of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbansandz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I agree with the OP. I absolutely hated how WoW had two gear sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Top Raiding Guilds were the Top PvP Guilds in WoW for one reason. BiS weapons, BiS trinkets, and BiS equipment bonus are in raiding gear. So PvE guilds were dominating PvP through gear and not skill. It is one of the reasons I quit WoW. They would give so much advantage to the raiders even in PvP. However, even this disadvantage wasn't as big as you think. One of my high school friends and his brother who played in BG9 ran the highest rated rogue + disc priest 2v2 in the world, with ZERO PvE gear. All other rogues they faced at their ratings were loaded with pve gears and dual warglaives of azzinoth (rogue were one of the more PVE gear dependent classes in TBC) Not everyone can handle a 25% dps and burst disadvantage. If they can, great for them. They obviously can click the right buttons at the right time really fast. But not everyone can handle a 25% disadvantage like that. Edited March 12, 2012 by xxdragonragexx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DilowBee Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm here for the PVP. Whoa wrong game bud cause all PvP is in SWTOR is gankfest and/or Bg repeating. Who the hell am I? Some idiot that paid for 3 months and comes here to bash a horrible PvP system. Anyway gtg real PvP game to play. (DaoC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 sharing gear is f'ing dumb. the whole point of mmo is to make you play longer, not for you to do some easy PvP and have BiS to PvE. PvE is progression, PvP is grind. The awards shouldn't be shared. especially when war hero gear is so easy to get in 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakachan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 agree with topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 In 1.2 there will be no reason to actually PvP more than a little a day , so we all will have the time to easily go get a set of PvE gear also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnol Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 People will always take the path of least resistance to gear. In Vanilla WoW: You convince guild leadership that you aren't a complete moron and can step out of the fire most of the time. You are a warm body that is carried by the 10-15 good players. In TBC: You ran 10 games per week on a 2v2 and received the top PVP gear (minus wep/shoulders, where you could pay someone to boost you to). In Wrath: Normal mode raids were a joke, so people went back to them to get their gear, and that was supplemented by the daily heroic dungeons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arox Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sorry guys.. Can someone please explain where it says from official bioware developers or the like.. That pvp gear will no longer be grindable from doing assloads of warzones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warkat Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Casuals like OP demand to be given the best PvP / PvE gear mailed to them because they pay a monthly sub.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartes Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sorry guys.. Can someone please explain where it says from official bioware developers or the like.. That pvp gear will no longer be grindable from doing assloads of warzones? well, even now: - Centurion is a joke to get. If you play it right you will have full centurion in like 2 days (i mean 5 bags pre 50, 1 bag at 50, round of dailies/weeklies) after dinging 50 - Champion gear will take you like 3-5 more days - BM is still hard to get but mainly due to RNG on bags and Champion gear is ALMOST AS GOOD as BM gear anyway - 1.2 you will get Rated WZ comms just for participating, doesn't matter if you win or loose (only grind here) - 1.2 some say some of PvP gear wilol be buyable for credits So the only assloads of grind is when you want full BM gear and even this may not be a grind at all if you are lucky one with bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadialBasis Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I find the gear balance (in terms of stats) good as it is now. I haven't done PvP in Columi gear or anything, but I see people who seem to do ok. The difference in stats is significant, but not game breaking in either direction. PvP gear is good enough to do normal mode ops (correct me if I'm wrong), which means PvP'ers are given the chance to experience the raids etc, while HM and NM should (in theory) provide a challenge and reward for PvE players. What I like is that I don't need to be a very dedicated player to experience the operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boroming Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) i really don't see the problem. if you really want to enjoy both pve and pvp get a set for each.... you don't go tank a boss with dps gear.... you wanna do pvp you dress up in pvp gear you obtain from doing pvp. wanna do pve? guess what... you gear up with drop from pve... they allow customization of the pvp and pve set via mod and enhancement, what do you want more? you can min/max very easily... i truly hope they buff expertise A LOT. so you can't even get the 2 piece bonus from pve set. tldr wanna do pve , gear up from that. wanna do pvp, use pvp gear. breaking news! the game allow gear change! ... Edited March 12, 2012 by Boroming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterdeathh Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm really wondering why people still say they should get rid of resilience/expertise on gear altogether without really thinking about it or giving examples of why it's such a flawed system. If expertise wasn't there and you had continually ramping stats where dmg on gear made the health gain negligable how would you like it if the few extra seconds expertise gives for surviability wasn't there and you died in about 4-5secs with half a rotation? Eventually the dmg is going to be so extreme on gear just like it is in every mmo that without a system in place to reduce some of the dmg all it will be is zergfests where people drop left and right without accomplishing anything other than killing in mid. While i may think expertise could use some changes it in no way should be removed completey to combat the ramping up of stats as the game progresses. If anything the dmg reduction needs to stay and just get rid of the dmg/heal increase since that would be a step in the right direction for how op heals are in pvp but then it just leads to more qq about how people are hitting like a wet noodle on anyone in pvp gear but at the same time getting rid of it completely people will whine about how they get zerged in 2secs because someone else is so much more geared than them with better stats. Could also say they should just make everyones stats and gear the same for pvp so everyone is equal except for skill but then without a true ranking system or arena system in place what would anyone hope to benefit from getting absolutely nothing from pvp? Without the systems in place there is no reason for any kind of competition if everyone is the same so why would anyone even want to waste time knowing that there is no carrot at the end be it a special mount/gear/title/whatever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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