ZeusThunder Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Has it occurred to Bioware to even ask the community if they want this? There is a fantastic in-game polling system that is never used. What if 75% of the community DOES NOT want cross-server PvP? I'd be curious to see what the reasoning is behind this upcoming change. The general things associated to cross-server PvP are: - Complete lack of community, you'll never see the people you had a match with ever again. - Complete lack of peer pressure to play well and not do things like AFK the whole match. - For those on heavily populated servers, the queues would become longer than they are now. - The goal of PvP becomes to have your name on top of a leaderboard with 1 million plus other people that you've never met before. Bioware many people don't care about how they rank against people on other servers. They want to compete against and play with the people that they can actually interact with afterwards. They want to play a MMO, not BF3 with lightsabers. I have yet to see Bioware even address this. Do they have a better system? Do they recognize these issues exist but don't care? Has any community research been done at all before deciding this was the direction you wanted to go? During development it was stated Bioware would listen to their players. I have yet to see this. I see some responses to people on the forums (which is not even close to being everyone) and nothing else. Edited March 10, 2012 by ZeusThunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Yeah, this is an interesting issue. Personally I like faction versus faction and not intra faction play. I thought queues time would be an incentive enough for people to shift to the lower populated faction, a few good players playing together on the instant queue side could can literally win 85%+ of their matches, that happened in WoW for a bit. However, what do you propose to do for the servers were queues just aren't popping? Edited March 10, 2012 by Touchbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theangryllama Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Unfortunately it is required for those who want a diverse ranked system. I do like the fact that they have said the x server will only be drawn on if you select the ranked queues or a specific warzone and will only be drawn on if the given zone cannot be filled by your own server. Without it any sort of ranked system would always be terrible. At some points on my server there is 3 huttball games going simultaneously, can you imagine if rankings were in and suddenly it has to be divided. Of those 48 people you would have to get 16 that are in the same 'bracket' and queues either become ridiculously long or simply non existant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I like faction versus faction and not intra faction play. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 One server isn't a big enough to get good ranked PvP. You end up playing the same 2 or 3 teams all day every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith_Mauler Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 this is what happens when imps outnumber republic players as high as 4-1/5-1 on some servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Right now population imbalances are out of BioWares control. Even with character transfers we would still have population issues that could not be addressed by the company. Anything cross server will give BioWare the option to combine the customers of two or more underpopulated servers for group content. Options and access are the keys to this van, now get in and have some candy. Edited March 10, 2012 by Derfmiolleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revial Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) There's no reasonable reason for cross server warzones. The reasons people give and the reasons it makes no sense: 1) Shorter queues. Wait, what? How does having 100 people in the pool vs 1000 people in the pool make a queue for your 16 man game shorter? It doesn't, because you're still going to have the exact same time for a game for the first 6 games in the 100 people scenario, and the first 62 games in the 1000 people scenario. The ONLY time it makes queues faster is if you didn't have 16 people to start a game at all, and if a server doesn't have 16 people who are wanting to do a warzone, there are far larger issues than warzone queues. 2) Even out the population. Wait, what? By their own admission, there is a 57-43 split of Imperial to Republic, with the PVP servers being worse (I notice they didn't say how much worse, but based off my own experience playing both sides on my pvp server, I can guess). Now, sure, this means if you are on a pvp server with say...a 70-30 split, you'll be able to take advantage of a 57-43 split, but it goes both ways. The guy on a pve server that had a 50-50 split is now going to be facing a 57-43 split as well. And, this all seems pointless anyways when they said warzones will be both faction vs faction as well as same faction vs same faction, meaning evening out the population doesn't actually matter. So...I agree, OP. Bioware, why? As you said with the dungeon finder question, you think community is important. Right now, you know the people you fight, so you are more emotionally invested. Once it goes cross server, the enemy is going to become nameless automatons you'll hardly ever see again (if ever). That sure seems to help the community! And, as I've already pointed out above, there doesn't seem to be any upside we gain from destroying the community. So....why do it? Edited March 10, 2012 by revial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdots Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Blah, blah, blah. Good move by Bioware. My PvP premade team wants to compete against everyone in the ToR community, not just the 4 or 5 serious PvP teams on my own server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkzero Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 There's no reasonable reason for cross server warzones. The reasons people give and the reasons it makes no sense: 1) Shorter queues. Wait, what? How does having 100 people in the pool vs 1000 people in the pool make a queue for your 16 man game shorter? It doesn't, because you're still going to have the exact same time for a game for the first 6 games in the 100 people scenario, and the first 62 games in the 1000 people scenario. The ONLY time it makes queues faster is if you didn't have 16 people to start a game at all, and if a server doesn't have 16 people who are wanting to do a warzone, there are far larger issues than warzone queues. 2) Even out the population. Wait, what? By their own admission, there is a 57-43 split of Imperial to Republic, with the PVP servers being worse (I notice they didn't say how much worse, but based off my own experience playing both sides on my pvp server, I can guess). Now, sure, this means if you are on a pvp server with say...a 70-30 split, you'll be able to take advantage of a 57-43 split, but it goes both ways. The guy on a pve server that had a 50-50 split is now going to be facing a 57-43 split as well. And, this all seems pointless anyways when they said warzones will be both faction vs faction as well as same faction vs same faction, meaning evening out the population doesn't actually matter. So...I agree, OP. Bioware, why? As you said with the dungeon finder question, you think community is important. Right now, you know the people you fight, so you are more emotionally invested. Once it goes cross server, the enemy is going to become nameless automatons you'll hardly ever see again (if ever). That sure seems to help the community! And, as I've already pointed out above, there doesn't seem to be any upside we gain from destroying the community. So....why do it? Because people are sick of doing hutball over and over and over and over and over and over. Also to drastically shorten queue times (if you've played any mmo before and after cross server queues you would know that it does in fact shorten queue times, making the wait time almost non existent). I have unsubbed and will not give BW another dime until cross server warzone queues are implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakeHoxven Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 best idea by bioware i've heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I want it. I also want cross server PvE LFG. I disagree that it hurts the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldness Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I want it. I also want cross server PvE LFG. I disagree that it hurts the community. It does hurt the community but in theme park mmos and especially tor .. there is virtually no community to hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkon Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 You apparently don't know how to read or listen so... Cross server PvP is a fallback for when you are waiting for too long. The game will always look on your server first, and the more specialized you have you PvP filter the more likely it will be that you get thrown into a cross faction match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iite Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 You apparently don't know how to read or listen so... Cross server PvP is a fallback for when you are waiting for too long. The game will always look on your server first, and the more specialized you have you PvP filter the more likely it will be that you get thrown into a cross faction match. Bout time someone posted that actually reads. BW has stated the matchmaking system will always search for local matches FIRST before moving to other servers. This in my mind is the best way to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I vote for adding it , just like i vote for adding the dungeon finder cross server also. These things where we got wait more to play the same is pointless , even in PvE people alrdy ninja saying it is for their companion lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmcnasty Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I don't see the problem you have with cross-server interaction, it's worked for dozens of MMOs in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revial Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Because people are sick of doing hutball over and over and over and over and over and over. Also to drastically shorten queue times (if you've played any mmo before and after cross server queues you would know that it does in fact shorten queue times, making the wait time almost non existent). I have unsubbed and will not give BW another dime until cross server warzone queues are implemented. They said all warzones will allow same faction queues in update 1.2 based off what I read off the guild summit chat. So, saying it's because you don't want to play huttball over and over again makes no sense. As for shortening queues, when people say 'it'll shorten queues' I realize math and rational reasoning aren't in vogue these days, but mathematically, I already pointed out how with same faction queues for all warzone maps, this argument makes no sense. Edited March 10, 2012 by revial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orisai Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Has it occurred to Bioware to even ask the community if they want this? It's their game, they don't have to ask anything when most, if not all of the PvP games played are Hutball Empire vs Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Bioware many people don't care about how they rank against people on other servers. They want to compete against and play with the people that they can actually interact with afterwards. They want to play a MMO, not BF3 with lightsabers. Cross server PvP is optional though.... you do not have to take advantage of it. Besides, they said the mechanics will favor same server as first priority. And being PvP, rather then PvE content consumption, it does not carry with it the many issues that cross server LFG does. The real issue right now is that they need to completely rework their open world PvP at cap level. Until they do, warzones is it, and PvP players usually want to consume a lot of cross faction warzones. You need cross server as an option for those that strictly like to PvP. I oppose cross server PvE LFG, but I am OK with cross server PvP. Edited March 10, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageH Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Has it occurred to Bioware to even ask the community if they want this? There is a fantastic in-game polling system that is never used. What if 75% of the community DOES NOT want cross-server PvP? I'd be curious to see what the reasoning is behind this upcoming change. The general things associated to cross-server PvP are: - Complete lack of community, you'll never see the people you had a match with ever again. - Complete lack of peer pressure to play well and not do things like AFK the whole match. - For those on heavily populated servers, the queues would become longer than they are now. - The goal of PvP becomes to have your name on top of a leaderboard with 1 million plus other people that you've never met before. Bioware many people don't care about how they rank against people on other servers. They want to compete against and play with the people that they can actually interact with afterwards. They want to play a MMO, not BF3 with lightsabers. I have yet to see Bioware even address this. Do they have a better system? Do they recognize these issues exist but don't care? Has any community research been done at all before deciding this was the direction you wanted to go? During development it was stated Bioware would listen to their players. I have yet to see this. I see some responses to people on the forums (which is not even close to being everyone) and nothing else. I love how this (Highlighted in red) is rolled out anytime cross-server anything is talked about. You can't even whisper about cross-server with the hordes of "You'll Kill The Community!!" shouters coming out to get you. There is a simple fact, for Rated Warzones, Cross-Server is a MUST. Competitive teams want to play the best of the best, and the best of the best isn't always on your server. Without a large pool to draw teams from, Rated would be boring as hell after the same few teams battled it out repeatedly and finally asked "When the hell can I play more than these same teams?!" They have already said that the match making system will favor pulling in players from within YOUR server first, and eventually as required will expand its search outside to other servers. Seems like a great solution to me. I don't know of a serious, legitimate competitive pvper who thinks Warzones should be made same server only. Queue times go down, diversity of people you can face off goes up therefore making you a better player because you will fight far more team compositions and face tactics you may have never faced previously. All other concerns are minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageH Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) It does hurt the community but in theme park mmos and especially tor .. there is virtually no community to hurt. Proof please. Oh wait, there is none except for people like you making baseless claims about something that can't be proven. You just had a bad experience and now your against cross-server anything and pull out your "Community" card any chance you can. Edited March 10, 2012 by SageH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morridan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 They said all warzones will allow same faction queues in update 1.2 based off what I read off the guild summit chat. So, saying it's because you don't want to play huttball over and over again makes no sense. As for shortening queues, when people say 'it'll shorten queues' I realize math and rational reasoning aren't in vogue these days, but mathematically, I already pointed out how with same faction queues for all warzone maps, this argument makes no sense. you must play on a server with good activity, where there are actually 100 people queueing... The other 75% of the servers that have 40 people on fleet at peak times are usually waiting 30 minutes to an hour for 1 WZ, so YES a cross server option will reduce queue times DRAMATICALLY. Quit being rude to people because you are ignorant of their plight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathcoffin Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 BUMPing because im against cross server PVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izmerak Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 BUMPing because im against cross server PVP Why, because you want the game to die faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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