Color Wars!

[loanstarr]

you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it

 

are you going to throw a tantrum if you dont get your way

[Vecke]

you pulled one statement out of context and disregarded the rest of his post. He clearly mentions exceptions multiple times.

 

and if BW did nothing as the game stands right now those colors are restricted. with an exception that makes it rare.

 

I absolutely did not pull it out of context.

 

I've said at least a dozen times in this thread that I agree with the OPs points about the lore. It is rare in Star Wars for this to happen. I've said many, many times in this thread that I agree with that.

 

I have also said that I strongly disagree with what the OP suggested to do about it, because that suggestion would violate the lore as well.

 

Please explain how this is wrong.

[Viera]

are you going to throw a tantrum if you dont get your way

 

No, but it seems like you are. Clearly a majority of people disagreed with the color restrictions, really, get over it and move on. Infact, in beta the color restrictions when they were added was one of the most complained about things.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Viera

[Kindara]

you pulled one statement out of context and disregarded the rest of his post. He clearly mentions exceptions multiple times.

 

and if BW did nothing as the game stands right now those colors are restricted. with an exception that makes it rare.

 

Your pulling the entire lore for Star Wars out of context so whats the difference? Just because some people will do something for the Lulz doesn't mean there should be a rule about stop it since it doesnt' destroy game play and its not a hack. What you and the OP are asking is lore breaking.

 

A Jedi that truely believes in his path is going to keep with more harmonioius colors. A player that could give a crap either way is going to do whatever he wants. Alot of people playing star wars like star wars and will likely keep close to the lore as far as their color preference. I know for my own Jedi I really have no interest in red. But for my bounty hunter I want something thats totally unboring like red, I like the idea of blue or purple for my bounty hunter. The color restrictions were keeping from blue.

 

Your asking choices to be taken away so the world looks perfect in your eyes. That to me is the sad state of many games where they just narrow and narrow and narrow down the rule because there's a ridiculous subset that don't want to make choices but have them made for them.

 

Next you ask for Kungfu panda and Pokemon mini games because the rest of the game just takes to long to figure out. There's already a game doing that with minimal choices and none of the ones they do have affect anything.

 

Do you really want that? A game void of choices something that even the Star Wars universe had just for a visual preference to how you see the universe? Play your character how you want to, follow the tradition of your side, work with your role play partners or friends to play that way. Don't force others to give up their personal choice.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Kindara

[Viera]

I would like to now lodge the complaint that my lightsaber does not one-hit everything. I find this lore breaking and it is really killing immersion for me.

 

I'm also rather upset that my character seems to be an adult padawan, as most Padawan are taken when they are children. I find that lore breaking and immersion killing as well.

 

FIX IT NOW BIOWARE

 

Thanks

 

/sarcasm

[Kindara]

I would like to now lodge the complaint that my lightsaber does not one-hit everything. I find this lore breaking and it is really killing immersion for me.

 

I'm also rather upset that my character seems to be an adult padawan, as most Padawan are taken when they are children. I find that lore breaking and immersion killing as well.

 

FIX IT NOW BIOWARE

 

Thanks

 

/sarcasm

 

hahaha Nice

[loanstarr]

I absolutely did not pull it out of context.

 

I've said at least a dozen times in this thread that I agree with the OPs points about the lore. It is rare in Star Wars for this to happen. I've said many, many times in this thread that I agree with that.

 

I have also said that I strongly disagree with what the OP suggested to do about it, because that suggestion would violate the lore as well.

 

Please explain how this is wrong.

 

look the basic tenet of this game is that choices matter, if you start stripping away all the decisions that matter then nothing matters. Large parts of the game are devoted to this, you must do x to get y and once you have y your stuck with it. BW has made exceptions out there to accomodate for a few things.

 

Everyone on the for side of this argument likes to split hairs and point to some tiny exception to the rule. But good=blue/green bad=red is the way its always been in starwars. And now BW is going to completely change it after we've all been following this rule set for months.

[loanstarr]

I would like to now lodge the complaint that my lightsaber does not one-hit everything. I find this lore breaking and it is really killing immersion for me.

 

I'm also rather upset that my character seems to be an adult padawan, as most Padawan are taken when they are children. I find that lore breaking and immersion killing as well.

 

FIX IT NOW BIOWARE

 

Thanks

 

/sarcasm

 

...more like. I really like the empires ships but I can't have them because i'm republic, bioware needs to change that immediately, and i also like their armor better so i should have that too.

[Vitellius]

The lore is all over the place. Because of this you can create any story you want to explain how and what crystal you use. It doesn't bother me at all. The only thing I would do is get rid of those ugly black core blades, but that's jut me.

[Malefik]

Colors of crystals in the movies is easy to explain. Lucas based the Jedi and Sith on a mixture of mystical traditions.

Green - planet Venus,spring,youth,rebirth after winter. Yoda green saber-teacher of the young. Luke- the saber that he made was green. youth, rebirth "A new hope". I could also say somthing about Luke useing his fathers saber. "Story of the green king" if anyone is interested.

Blue-Jupiter, the color of justice. Obi,Anikan-peace keepers.

Red-Mars, War,blood,passion, power, bravery or being cruel if unbalanced. That was the key. The color red was very hard to keep in balance and users fall to its vices. In the movies you never see a Jedi with a red saber. It was the symbol of the dark path.

Purple-royalty, kingship, the color of red and blue in balance. Mace, acting head of the order. I think I posted this in one of the "Joe Cambell/Lucas threads" on the beta forums.

[Asturias]

The lore is all over the place. Because of this you can create any story you want to explain how and what crystal you use. It doesn't bother me at all. The only thing I would do is get rid of those ugly black core blades, but that's jut me.

 

Refer to page one, I just put up more rebuttels to the argument.

[Sernon]

Nothing like a specific game setting with an oblivious approach to the visual assets they hand out to the players. With one hand they carefully create the background canvas, with the other they drown the whole thing in noise by acting like this is a single player game, where the randomness would be limited to one person, as opposed to perpetually drown your entire experience for as long as you can stand it, in the name of personal preferences following no inherent logic or visual pattern.

 

This was never about lore, for when you use it in defiance rather than to build on the carefully constructed themes, the ulterior or rather personal motivation becomes the tool of choice, in order to tear down the illusions of a specific setting, with little regard for the resulting visual impact, that by no regulation can only promote utter randomness, easily drifting far away from any movie or single player game attempting to convey even a faint image of the themes in question.

 

It turns into a show of individual expression, and the end result will be that of chaos instead of recognizable themes, and individuality that comes before the factions, or allegiances of any sort. All thematic material becomes secondary to promote the "lore friendly" execution of the individual need to not be a part of anything restrictive! Like playing a MMO with a given canvas, for that is truly a hindrance!

 

So in short, this is a way to turn the game into a generic MMO offering, as opposed to any "lore friendly" product, where you actually would care for the themes that is already present, instead of acting like it was the plague that must be avoided at all cost.

 

Caretaking is to build upon the foundation of the material that are given, in this case the product as presented visually here and now, by removing any governing measures the opposite happens, Bioware only need to make the NPC's look and act equally out of place, and this circus will be on the road.

 

---

[Saverick]

If nothing else it would be nice to have it enforced on the Roleplay Servers.

[Asturias]

are you going to throw a tantrum if you dont get your way

 

Lol, keep the good fight going but this is exactly how lore is destroyed in most titles. People want there cake and eat it to. What bother me is this game is centered on story and choices but you would think those choices would have consequences when exposed.

[Lord_Scythe]

Colors of crystals in the movies is easy to explain. Lucas based the Jedi and Sith on a mixture of mystical traditions.

Green - planet Venus,spring,youth,rebirth after winter. Yoda green saber-teacher of the young. Luke- the saber that he made was green. youth, rebirth "A new hope". I could also say somthing about Luke useing his fathers saber. "Story of the green king" if anyone is interested.

Blue-Jupiter, the color of justice. Obi,Anikan-peace keepers.

Red-Mars, War,blood,passion, power, bravery or being cruel if unbalanced. That was the key. The color red was very hard to keep in balance and users fall to its vices. In the movies you never see a Jedi with a red saber. It was the symbol of the dark path.

Purple-royalty, kingship, the color of red and blue in balance. Mace, acting head of the order. I think I posted this in one of the "Joe Cambell/Lucas threads" on the beta forums.

 

Um no he did not! There is zero meaning about the colors of lightsabers!

 

"Lightsabers depicted in the first two released films, A New Hope and Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, had blades that were colored either blue (for the Jedi) or red (for the Sith). This color difference was a decision during post-production when the lightsaber blades were being rotoscoped, as the original blades were simply white. In Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker's newly-constructed lightsaber was colored blue during the initial editing of the film, and appears so in both an early movie trailer and the official theatrical posters, but in the final film, it was ultimately colored green in order to better stand out against the blue sky of Tatooine in outdoor scenes. It also appeared as green in re-release posters."

 

"Green would become another standard blade color for Jedi lightsabers in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Mace Windu's amethyst-bladed lightsaber, as first seen in Attack of the Clones, was a personal request from actor Samuel L. Jackson as a way to make his character stand out among other Jedi. Jackson's favorite color is purple and he frequently requests the characters he plays to use an item of the color. "

 

Try again! Colors were after thoughts in post-production.

[Lord_Scythe]

Lol, keep the good fight going but this is exactly how lore is destroyed in most titles. People want there cake and eat it to. What bother me is this game is centered on story and choices but you would think those choices would have consequences when exposed.

 

You never answered my question.

 

People posted to have the color restrictions removed and you called it whining! How is you posting to have restrictions added back any different?

[Toweleeeie]

Color crystal should be restricted by faction, not aligment.

 

There should be "epic" quests that take months to complete to unlock the other faction's crystal colors for your self.

[terminova]

Refer to page one, I just put up more rebuttels to the argument.

 

None of the rebuttals prove that Sith or Jedi cannot use crystals of any color for their light sabers. Further, your one statement involving the KOTOR series and SWTOR doesn't hold water meaning if it was allowable in KOTOR it should be allowable in SWTOR because they are from the same era and share a continuity all their own.

[Wolfeisberg]

If nothing else it would be nice to have it enforced on the Roleplay Servers.

 

The restrictions limits the roleplay, though.

[Viera]

6. But I don't have a Sith/Jedi!

Explanation: Every Army of every world including the one we live in used distinct colors or tracers to distingish the difference between friend and enemy(US/Germany/China/France/Brits, all use there own distinct tracer).

Star Wars is no difference as shown in the movies and other media produced to the public.

 

FYI - in the Star Wars movies all of the Rebel blasters (from the ships to the soldiers) were red and the Empire's were Green.

 

lol

 

2. But Anakin used his Blue Light Saber in EP3!

Explanation: Anakin just turned to the Dark Side of the Force and was immediately sent to kill the remaining separatist and exterminate the Jedi order. He did not have time, I repeat he did not have time to make a Synthetic Crystal.

(What you see in the movies and a design restriction in a video game is two different things. There is a reason why these three were restricted because BioWARE knows they are the iconic colors of the two factions.)

 

This is also irrelevant. He didn't even make his synthetic crystal when he used one, Palpatine just handed him a new lightsaber. Arguably the only reason he got a new one was because Obi Wan took his old one away. At that point Palpatine felt that the Sith were beyond Lightsabers and the only reason they still wielded them was to taunt the Jedi.

 

That said, considering as palpatine made the lightsaber and actively sought the destruction of natural crystals, he wouldn't have put any customization in regards to color in it. No need to. It wasn't a personal choice on the side of Anakin, just what happened.

 

That said, Palpatine later goes on to inhabit the body of a clone who wields a Blue Lightsaber.

 

Seriously, the argument for color restrictions is lame. It isn't "lore destroying" because there is frankly nothing in lore that dictates who can use what color of lightsaber crystal. A Jedi knight (Adi) made a Red Synthetic Lightsaber WITH ABSOLUTELY NO REPERCUSSIONS from the Jedi Council, and it definitely did not stop her from advancing in the ranks of the Jedi.

 

You are complaining simply because it is conflicting with YOUR view of Star Wars, not the canoncity of Star Wars, not the Lore of Star Wars, but because it conflicts with YOUR idea of what Star Wars is.

 

You have been shown countless piles of Lore that completely contradicts what you are saying and you argue against it that it should be 'rare' or that it violates 'the iconic image'. It doesn't say that it is rare, it just says it was frowned upon. Which is arguable, because in the NJO everyone used synthetic lightsaber crystals mainly because the natural crystals were all destroyed.

 

There isn't even any evidence that the CURRENT Sith Empire uses Synthetic Crystals so the argument for Red only is even weaker, since everywhere in SWTOR you are picking up NATURAL CRYSTALS.

 

Is that so hard to understand?

 

Mace Windu blade was a rarity among Jedi in that period as well as the others in there period and it needs to be rare in SWTOR MMORPG.

 

You do realize that Mace Windu is, oh, 3,000 years or so after this MMORPG so your argument for it needs to be rare in SWTOR because it is rare 3,000 years from now is also lame.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Viera

[Shadezilla]

are you going to throw a tantrum if you dont get your way

 

I think the people that are not having a nose bleed every time they see a Sith with a green light saber are getting their way. The majority of posts on the topic have been pro choice so maybe you should ask that question yourself because I doubt it's going to get changed back.

[MasterKayote]

*golf clap* for the OP...

 

Congrats ... you just spent all that time writing, pasting, and formatting a giant TLDR post which objectively proved (yes I know you tried to make is sound bad) that Jedi and Sith can use any color they so choose regardless of their alignment. Yes they may be looked down on, ridiculed or whatever ... but they were not EVER physically restricted to use any color they acquired. I could easily break down every point ... but ill stick to one (mainly because im sick of that sad excuse)

 

Just because Anakin decided to go red "when he had the time" and after his blue one was taken doesnt mean squat ... my character is not Anakin. My character decided to make/modify his X color.

 

As of 1.2 (or did it happen already?) ... things will be as they should have been from the very beginning.

Edited March 11, 2012 by MasterKayote

[Spiritinblack]

I have read this whole thread. It has been said over and over again that Green/blue equal good. red equal bad.

 

This is where I will try to blow it all up. ( however I know that someone will say this does not count because it doe not deal with light sabers. But I am not argueing that I am argueing the whole color bad/good thing.)

 

Watch EP. 4,5,6. All GOOD guy ships fire RED. All BAD guy ships fire green. Even the damn Death Star fires green.

 

No doubt like I said, you will say this does not count..... blah blah blah. It has bee shown in countless posts that restricting them goes AGAINST lore.

 

I have just proven that colors have NO difference when dealing with good/bad. Using the same movies that you hold dear.

 

I await you saying it does not count... or your silly explination on why good shot red and bad shot green. And why the same could not be placed on Lightsabers. ( even though I know whatever you say is complete and utter CRAP.... )

[Toonimator]

Purple sabers are rare only in the movies. ONLY in the movies. They're fairly common in the KOTOR era, of which TOR is close enough to be part of (no pesky Ruusan Reformations getting in the way). Purples are plentiful post-ROTJ, when many Jedi sported them including two of Han & Leia's children (but they were by no means the ONLY ones).

 

Class stories say our characters are exceptional, so even if you argued that 'a Jedi/Sith choosing their own saber color is rare', it would absolutely apply to our player-characters.

 

Generally on a standard server, there's 100-200 people on the Fleet at a fairly busy time. Roughly 50% of those, give or take, are Force-using classes. Of those 50-100 players, you'll see plenty of blue and green among the Jedi...plenty of red among the Sith. There will be some opposite-faction colors in there, too... and yellows, oranges, purples, cyans, and whites, the last three particularly because of the 1.1.5 vendor. Even if, by some miracle, all 50-100 of those Jedi are sporting 'off' colors--and they probably won't be, particularly the lowbies who likely have a 'faction'-friendly color or yellow (which lore readily supports for the period)--that's 50-100 people. There's HUNDREDS more NPCs throughout the game sporting more 'movie appropriate' colors.

 

Someone mentioned that the movies set the precedent for the color restrictions... no they don't. The only movies that set a precedent of ANYTHING Star Wars are the original films, and I and others have pointed out REPEATEDLY that the OT features only 3 saber-wielders, so OF COURSE there's no reason to show more than 3 colors! If there wasn't a special effects glitch, they wouldn't have even given Luke a green one in ROTJ. But nobody in their right mind would've thought "Lightsabers ONLY come in red and blue". That's ludicrous. Would they be the most iconic colors? Probably. But I think most fans would've loved the idea of more saber colors. I know I was happy when reading the Jedi Academy books (and there wasn't much to be happy with in those) and Luke's first class of students lit up sabers in a wide variety of colors.

 

The prequels don't set the precedent for the entire SW universe... they came AFTER the OT, and after the EU was firmly established. They did change many elements of the EU, as they had to... and they defined various parts of the universe as they existed for the time period of the Saga... but at no time did George Lucas say "Sabers are only red, green, blue, and rarely purple EVER." He DID say "no MORE Wookiee Jedi", so Lowbacca and the other couple Wookiee Jedi from older stories were allowed to still exist... just no new ones (Dawn of the Jedi aside; they're Je'daii in that series)

[Texansamurai]

I was a jedi, I killed a sith, It was a red lightsaber. I then used the red light saber.

 

Thats my RP.

 

Restricting color of your lightsaber was stupid, and only puts more rails on this game.