drmcnasty Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Again, 3rd time.... Why are you complaining about the color of the glow sticks in your hand, something that doesn't affect you, when you could be complaining about something that does such as server population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadezilla Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Luke didn't chose Green. He used it because it was more visable against Tattooine's Sky (He originally used Blue). The blue blended too much into the background so they recolored the saber during post-production to make it more visually appealing. As for Palpatine, he actually used a blue saber for quite a long time, as it was his "trophy" saber. Regardless of how he got it, he used it a lot. People can make up all the lore they want pre/post movies. But the only "official" lore is the movies and the movies -do not- create reasons why some use certain colors. They simply use them because Lucas wanted to differentiate the good vs evil and make it visually noticeable to moviegoers. The lore behind all the colors/characters etc comes from Novels/games/comics etc that are essentially fan fiction which is why it's called an "Expanded Universe." Its funny, and don't get me wrong I agree with everything you said. Your last paragraph is pretty typical of a lot of serious Star Wars fans that discount the Expanded Universe as anything more than fan fiction which is all well and good. What I don't understand is that clearly this game is in the expanded universe it takes place thousand of years before the main canon of Star Wars established by the movies. So I have no idea why this part of the expanded universe should have to hold this standard. When are people just going to accept that all that other stuff they hate is all licensed just like this game and that they don't get to pick and choose what is ok and what is not ok. I like KOTOR so thats canon but I don't like New Jedi Order so that is not. you can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yeah, you can have your own 'personal' canon, choosing to ignore stuff you don't like... like The Crystal Star, or Children of the Jedi, or Dark Empire maybe... but it's all still canon as far as the Lucas-owned companies are concerned. Lucas himself only considers the movies and The Clone Wars canon, which means this game is right out along with Thrawn, Yuuzhan Vong, Darth Caedus, Ulic Qel-Droma, Zayne Carrick, Darth Revan, all of that. It's an EU game, EU 'rules' should apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_Knight Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Orange lightsabers are awesome. That is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmaguz Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yeah, you can have your own 'personal' canon, choosing to ignore stuff you don't like... like The Crystal Star, or Children of the Jedi, or Dark Empire maybe... but it's all still canon as far as the Lucas-owned companies are concerned. Lucas himself only considers the movies and The Clone Wars canon, which means this game is right out along with Thrawn, Yuuzhan Vong, Darth Caedus, Ulic Qel-Droma, Zayne Carrick, Darth Revan, all of that. It's an EU game, EU 'rules' should apply. Which sane person would dislike masterpieces like Dark Empire, Thrawn trilogy and Tales of the Jedi?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elepole Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have only one thing to say: Before Ashara couldn't use a blue crystal because i'm slightly dark side, now she can use a blue crystal regardless of my moral alignment. So the new system is much better since it permit Ashara to stay correct with the lore (She still a jedi, therefore she use a blue crystal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetesh Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I don't get what all the fuss is about. Are you telling me that by being a force user, and a person with free will I cannot switch a color crystal out of a lightsaber that I build myself? Or that I cannot just take a lightsaber from a Jedi/Sith I killed as a trophy and use that? The only way that a crystal restriction should work is if that the crystal has no inherent color and that color is a reflection of your alignment with the force. But that not being the case the answer is simple: I do what I want. If the creation of the crystal, or the harvest of the crystal permits it then it's about your personal choice. It's not like if a sith puts a blue crystal in his lightsaber he suddenly looses all his power. It's a cosmetic thing and it should be left at that. The reason I see behind the sith red and jedi blue/green is that red usually means evil, green calm and blue usually means shield/defense. Now... this is my personal opinion and should be taken as such. But to argue for pages and entire threads about some colors... is just either extreme fanboyism or just plain dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Which sane person would dislike masterpieces like Dark Empire, Thrawn trilogy and Tales of the Jedi?! It's easy enough to dislike Dark Empire, especially when you factor in DE2 and Empire's End. There's so much more 'lore-breaking' going on in the DE series than anything we see in TOR... Some sane people may dislike TOTJ or Thrawn because they're those "Star Wars fans" who think the movies are all there is*, and everything else is a profit-grab from fanfic authors/artists (never mind that the Prequels were the biggest profit-grab and fanfic-ish stories in the whole of Star Wars). The only flak I give the Thrawn trilogy is Zahn's obsession with technology. It seemed like every other page in HTTE had some reference to the 'beckon call' which was a remote control for a starship... and the description of the shieldships, mole miners, the Katana fleet, slave drives, etc. TOTJ's art was uneven, but I still enjoyed it. I was just throwing out examples of EU, good AND bad, that people might rather ignore. *and yet, such fans will play SWTOR and tell us we shouldn't have X or Y because it wasn't in the movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 the colors were never faction based so this argument is just idiotic. my dark or light leanings are none of your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loanstarr Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Synthetic Crystals, it’s a Sith Thang! Though synthetic crystals were ordinarily unsuitable for use in light sabers, the Sith discovered that they could create synth-crystals that were energized, magnetized, and modified with the power of the dark side of the Force in special furnaces, causing the crystal to glow in harmonic vibration. As a result of their artificial origins, synthetic crystals created more powerful light saber blades and could be more easily augmented. Also, their common usage by Sith and other Darksiders after this discovery caused synthetic crystals to become something of a staple among such groups, and their use among Jedi was strongly discouraged. Most synthetic crystals were red, a result of the forging process, and oftentimes the initiate's intentional manipulations, as most individuals who utilized synthetic crystals were Darksiders. The red-hued light saber blades generated by such crystals were often nicknamed "bloodshine blades". However, synth-crystals could be made in any color, requiring only slight adjustments of the creation process and special manipulations through the Force during the forging. Jedi frowned on the use of synthetic crystals in lightsabers, most individuals who utilized colors other than red were Darksiders looking to hide their affiliations 1. But Exar Kun had a blue light saber! Explanation: The lightsaber of Jedi Knight Exar Kun was a device that was initially created to produce a single beam of blue-white energy. However, upon his ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith, Kun redesigned his lightsaber based on instructions hidden within an antiquated Sith holocron. The finished product was a double-bladed weapon imbued with dark side energy, from which sapphire blades materialized up to 1.5 meters from either end of the hilt. (Exar Kun had learned long lost secrets from a holocron that forged the look but it is a synthetically made crystal infused with the dark side of the force.) A rarity your character is not significant enough to overshadow and take away the iconic look of this character. 2. But Anakin used his Blue Light Saber in EP3! Explanation: Anakin just turned to the Dark Side of the Force and was immediately sent to kill the remaining separatist and exterminate the Jedi order. He did not have time, I repeat he did not have time to make a Synthetic Crystal. (What you see in the movies and a design restriction in a video game is two different things. There is a reason why these three were restricted because BioWARE knows they are the iconic colors of the two factions.) 3. But Mace Windu had a purple colored crystal! In the Prequel Trilogy, Mace Windu's unique purple lightsaber was a functional change but Samuel L. Jackson, who played Windu, asked for a lightsaber to match his favorite color, and the distinct shade helped his character stand out on the battlefield from the red, blue, and green of the other lightsabers. A rarity, nuff said! Jedi used natural crystals! According to The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force, lightsaber colors originally indicated a Jedi's role in the Order. For example, Jedi Consulars, who focused on non-violence, carried green lightsabers to symbolize peace. Jedi Guardians, on the other hand, carried blue lightsabers as a symbol of uniformity and solidarity. The lack of lightsaber color variation in the movies is a lack of colored crystals. According to Jedi vs. Sith, the Empire (Past/Present/Future) quarantined or destroyed many sources of lightsaber crystals. This left the Jedi with mostly Ilum crystals, which can only produce green or blue blades. Conclusion Red/Blue/Green needs to be restricted to their respective factions. The symbols of the big three colors are iconic to the faction which they have been displayed upon. Posters, movies, books, cartoons, toys and comics is proof enough that Red is the faction color of the Sith, while Blue/Green is the faction color of the Jedi, regardless of a select few iconic characters. Flame away! Completely agree and well done post. Allowing players to spit on the lore is stupid. Seeing a fruit salad of colors in a group is just an eyesore. There's a reason people create color themes. I mean if choices arent going to matter then lets just remove them all. I demand to play a empire fury class ship on my republic jedi, oh and i want all the armor from the empire as well. Make it happen Bioware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Completely agree and well done post. Allowing players to spit on the lore is stupid. Seeing a fruit salad of colors in a group is just an eyesore. There's a reason people create color themes. I mean if choices arent going to matter then lets just remove them all. I demand to play a empire fury class ship on my republic jedi, oh and i want all the armor from the empire as well. Make it happen Bioware Players aren't spitting on the lore by choosing their own color lightsaber blades. The lore is the Expanded Universe, not the narrow range of the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testszag Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Completely agree and well done post. Allowing players to spit on the lore is stupid. Seeing a fruit salad of colors in a group is just an eyesore. There's a reason people create color themes. I mean if choices arent going to matter then lets just remove them all. I demand to play a empire fury class ship on my republic jedi, oh and i want all the armor from the empire as well. Make it happen Bioware you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loanstarr Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it actually no its not, the OP makes that pretty clear. and the argument of "your wrong, i want to spit on the lore anyways" is very weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testszag Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 actually no its not, the OP makes that pretty clear. and the argument of "your wrong, i want to spit on the lore anyways" is very weak try reading more than the first post. you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loanstarr Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Players aren't spitting on the lore by choosing their own color lightsaber blades. The lore is the Expanded Universe, not the narrow range of the movies. did you read the OP? the EU is discussed. And every example you could point out is a "rare" occurrence not a common one. How are people missing that? When 1.2 drops every player out there will have different colored lightsabers making a hideous eyesore that is not represented in anything StarWars. And choices are supposed to have meaning. light vs dark, blue/green vs red. thats what makes things interesting and drives story telling. Which BW supposedly cares about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loanstarr Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 try reading more than the first post. you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it yea stating your opinion over and over again doesnt make it a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testszag Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 did you read the OP? the EU is discussed. And every example you could point out is a "rare" occurrence not a common one. How are people missing that? When 1.2 drops every player out there will have different colored lightsabers making a hideous eyesore that is not represented in anything StarWars. And choices are supposed to have meaning. light vs dark, blue/green vs red. thats what makes things interesting and drives story telling. Which BW supposedly cares about. i did read the op. he picked and chose what he wanted to make his argument seem valid. the fact is, this entire game takes place in the eu. during this time, and in this game, the sith used natural crystals because the crystal caves still exist. the idea that, because we can use different colors, everybody will is ridiculous. some will, and that is well within the the lore you seem to think is being spit upon. the fact is, a percentage of sith/jedi did use different colors than the traditional ones. seeing as how there are now more than 250,000 (conservatively) force users, it is only natural that you will see more of those. when you, as others have pointed out, factor in the npc force users that do use the traditional coverage, it all comes back to my original statement: you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testszag Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) yea stating your opinion over and over again doesnt make it a fact. no, the facts make it a fact. you don't have to like it. that does not change the fact that there is no forced use of color in the factions. it has been shown over and over again that there are jedi/sith that do not follow that tradition. you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it Edited March 10, 2012 by testszag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loanstarr Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 i did read the op. he picked and chose what he wanted to make his argument seem valid. No he addressed every weak excuse people were making to dump on StarWars lore the fact is, this entire game takes place in the eu. The fact is every expansion of starwars is based on the movies of the original vision by George Lucas. Where good guys use blue/green and bad use red. during this time, and in this game, the sith used natural crystals because the crystal caves still exist. the idea that, because we can use different colors, everybody will is ridiculous. some will, and that is well within the the lore you seem to think is being spit upon. the fact is, a percentage of sith/jedi did use different colors than the traditional ones. seeing as how there are now more than 250,000 (conservatively) force users, it is only natural that you will see more of those. when you, as others have pointed out, factor in the npc force users that do use the traditional coverage, This is rubbish, your just making wild assumptions to fit your desire to do want you want. There is nothing in StarWars to date that suggests every force user had a different colored lightsaber. That barfed up rainbow of colors that looks ridiculous somehow exists. It being done for the 1st time in 1.2 and its going to look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loanstarr Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 no, the facts make it a fact. ...and you havent presented any. Just some twisted logic that because a handful of force users across an expansive timeline used different colors therefore everyone should be allowed to use any color they want. complete nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 did you read the OP? the EU is discussed. And every example you could point out is a "rare" occurrence not a common one. How are people missing that? When 1.2 drops every player out there will have different colored lightsabers making a hideous eyesore that is not represented in anything StarWars. And choices are supposed to have meaning. light vs dark, blue/green vs red. thats what makes things interesting and drives story telling. Which BW supposedly cares about. Did YOU read the OP? He cites only 3 Jedi/Sith who have off-color sabers. Mace Windu's purple saber is rare FOR THE MOVIES. Pre-Saga and post-Saga, purple is a frequent color found amongst saber-users. Exar Kun crafted an extraordinary lightsaber as he was a particularly gifted individual, sure, but that brings me to my next point... ...Did you pay attention to the fact that our characters, storywise, are rare? The single-player aspect of this game, the class stories, have our characters as exceptional. So we've got as much right to a choice of crystal color as Exar Kun, Mace Windu, Darth Krayt, or any other examples. Our characters are the Exar Kuns, Darth Revans, Zayne Carricks, Luke Skywalkers, Kyp Durrons, Mara Jades, etc of SWTOR. Classwise, we're all unique and rare, even if there's 50 of us on the fleet at once, showing off our multicolored sabers. The EU supports choice, period. If you want to focus on the MMO part of this game instead of the single-player "most powerful Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior in years" angle, the EU still supports it. Luke Skywalker's NJO has total color freedom; but, as most tales of post-ROTJ Jedi are in book form, there's little visual reference. But purple, orange, etc are all common. Blue & green are still the most popular, but others are common. Same with KOTOR, same with just about every era aside from Saga-era and LEGACY-era, but in LEGACY we don't see a whole lot of Jedi (3 that we do see are Skywalkers, and two more are from Saga-era stories and probably never bothered switching from Old Jedi Order colors to new ones when they joined the NJO), and with Krayt's guidance the One Sith may in fact be restricted to red, tho Krayt uses his old green saber along with a red when he's 'reborn'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talorya Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Honestly, it's like we can't just kill someone of the other faction and use their lightsaber, because you know, the lightsabers and crystals are DNA coded to the original creator or force alignment. I find that to be perfectly acceptable for the imperials, to add confusion to the battlefield, to hinder the jedis from making the decision to strike another blue/green saber user, deception is acceptable from the siths, and they use it well. There is only the force, what "side" you're on doesn't affect the force, just how you perceive it. Crystal colours is just aesthetics and shouldn't be aligned to any side, at most, level restriction but that's it. Talk all you want about "how they should look" but quite frankly it's just a weapon, you can get another one. They've removed the alignment requirements which is great, as it wasn't all that well implemented in the first place as it prevents modding of all items even the ones you don't have equipped, resulting in useless crystals that could've been used for a companion. Edited March 10, 2012 by Talorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 ...and you havent presented any. Just some twisted logic that because a handful of force users across an expansive timeline used different colors therefore everyone should be allowed to use any color they want. complete nonsense You obviously need to reread his post with some comprehension. While he makes his case he also unmakes his case. No where in the wiki he got that information from states there's a PHYSICAL restriction. Only that its PREFERED or FROWNED apon by the corresponding sides. Jedi / Sith can still CHOOSE their own color. Many have always stuck with the par for course but that doesn't mean all. It is a choice. Its a personal choice. An RPer who wants to toe the line is going to choose the color thats right for their side and their looks. Why should everyone be held to 1 person's preference instead of getting the choice? The lore never ever specificially states there's a physical limitation or an actual rule limitation. Merely that factions preference. Last I looked preference means its a choice to tow the line or not to tow the line. You can see my early post in the thread where I easily break it all down for you if that helps. Lore is not an argument in favor of physical restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testszag Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 /fingersinears lalalalalalala you're wrong, crystal color is a choice, get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Than the pazzaz of the of the game will be lost for a lot of hard core fan. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the game but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. I just don't like how BioWARE is pissing on such iconic symbols to please a minority group that have no clue. Ironic you should imply that people have no clue. Multiple instances are recorded and documented of Jedi using colors outside of those that you mentioned. Are we going to ignore them? And you want to talk about pissing on lore, why aren't you up in arms over Sith becoming Jedi in the next major patch? Edited March 10, 2012 by Frostvein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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