Color Wars!

[cipher_nemo]

You were saying?

 

Zing! That must have stung.

[VanorDM]

Zing! That must have stung.

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if the person you quote was responding to will try to use the "Only the movies count" type argument.

 

Which I honestly believe is maybe the single weakest argument you can make in a debate like this. Seeing how everything in this game is exclusively EU lore.

[Asturias]

I like how the vocal minority here who advocate for the unrestricted colors, act like they RP but I can see none of you don't and a lot of you stated it. Most of you have no clue but qoute your sources from KOTOR 1 & 2. A single player RPG were you played the iconic character in the EU. MMO are not single player games because you share that world with others. It is insulting to allow a mass influx of players to do what they want just because. This spoils the experience for many others on the opposite side of the spectrem and there should be a compromise. I dont want to see a million pure blooded jedi nights with red sabers running around, its stupid and spoils the uniquness.

 

The big three are iconic and it was established by thethe movies which everything EU is spin off from and you can go down town right now of every major city and ask people randomly what color does a Sith carry and 9 times out of 10 they will say RED.

 

Dont hate because i called you fashion lions out because that all you guys are really!

[Caelrie]

I like how the vocal minority here who advocate for the unrestricted colors, act like they RP but I can see none of you don't and a lot of you stated it.

If we were the minority, Bioware would be on your side instead of ours.

[KittyPrawn]

George Lucas said:

 

The color of light-saber blades has no particular meaning. The problem we faced when working on the old films was the lack of special-effects proficiency. We didn't have the technical means to create light-saber blades of infinite color varieties. Also we only see three Force users with light sabers in the old films so there was no reason to have more than the green, blue and red light-saber blades.

 

When I started work on the prequel trilogy, we obviously had the ability to create any color of light-saber blade. However, to retain continuity between the trilogies, I thought it best not to expand the range of colors for light-saber blades.

[ferroz]

That's not the bit I'm disputing, to clarify. I'm disputing "I would believe Luke could do anything than what your rag tag Jedi character could" in regards to creating a red saber for Leia. He learned how to create synthetic crystals from writings by Obi-Wan, after all, which means that Obi-Wan at least knew how to create them, if he didn't at some point create one himself.

His saber in RoTJ has a synth crystal.

[Wolfninjajedi]

 

their use among Jedi was strongly discouraged.

 

Jedi frowned on the use of synthetic crystals in lightsabers

 

These two things right here are what invalid the OP. The jedi NEVER restricted other jedi in lightsaber color, they just frowned upon it and discouraged it. Never did the jedi say "no you can't use that crystal."

Edited March 9, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[VanorDM]

act like they RP but I can see none of you don't and a lot of you stated it.

 

What exactly does RP have to do with it? Myself I play on a RP server, so does that mean my opinion somehow matters more then others? Lore is Lore, if someone RP's or not doesn't factor into it in the least. A lot of people may want the game to stay true the the Lore, but never RP.

 

And once again Lore does not support Alignment restrictions. It's just that simple, there's nothing in the Lore to support any sort of restriction at all.

 

A single player RPG were you played the iconic character in the EU. MMO are not single player games because you share that world with others.

 

I have news for you. The Jedi Knight in this game is easily as important if not more so then Reven. So the above point really isn't at all valid, not when you consider what our characters are.

 

what color does a Sith carry and 9 times out of 10 they will say RED.

 

8 out of 10 will likely not even know what a Sith is...

 

However that still doesn't change anything because as it was, there were a lot of Sith who could not use red sabers, because they were Light I or higher.

 

Let me say that again, because you and others seem to either miss it, or are ignoring it.

 

Sith were not able to use red crystals if they were Light I. As it stands now with the restriction removed, all Sith can now use red crystals if they want to.

[ferroz]

Your talking about Luke Skywalker here, really. The most powerful force user to ever exist and not to mention one of a very select few that ever crossed over to the dark side and reverted back to the light. I would believe Luke could do anything than what your rag tag Jedi character could. Not to mention he did change the ways of how the Jedi traditionally did things *(I.E. Jedi can Marry).

My jedi character is also one of the most powerful force users to ever exist.

 

he also crossed over to the dark side and then back to the light.

 

He also happens to get married.

[Toonimator]

I like how the vocal minority here who advocate for the unrestricted colors, act like they RP but I can see none of you don't and a lot of you stated it. Most of you have no clue but qoute your sources from KOTOR 1 & 2. A single player RPG were you played the iconic character in the EU. MMO are not single player games because you share that world with others. It is insulting to allow a mass influx of players to do what they want just because. This spoils the experience for many others on the opposite side of the spectrem and there should be a compromise. I dont want to see a million pure blooded jedi nights with red sabers running around, its stupid and spoils the uniquness.

We're quoting KOTOR 1 & 2 because Bioware was involved in them and it sets a precedent. In both games, we're playing exceptional characters.

 

Guess what? WE'RE DOING THE SAME IN TOR! Whether we RP our character that way or not with OTHER players isn't the issue--in our class stories, the 4 Force-wielding classes ARE exceptional.

 

The EU springs from the movies, that's true... and much of it sprung from the original 3 movies, before George had decades to let his 'vision' get altered by his experiences and changing tastes. "Oh, no, Greedo was ALWAYS meant to fire first, ALWAYS." If you buy that, you're delusional. But I digress, the point is the EU springs from the movies, and TOR springs FROM THE EU. It's an EU game. Its story is basically continuing the one begun in KOTORs 1 & 2.

 

If you go downtown and ask 10 people what color saber a Sith uses, of course you'll hear 'red', because none of them know about Exar Kun or Darth Caedus or Darth Krayt. But a lot of us who play this game, we DO know about them, and many of us care, too--if not about the specific character, then about the fact that there's ample evidence in the EU that saber color ultimately is a CHOICE, not restricted to faction OR alignment.

[Toonimator]

George Lucas said:

The color of light-saber blades has no particular meaning. The problem we faced when working on the old films was the lack of special-effects proficiency. We didn't have the technical means to create light-saber blades of infinite color varieties. Also we only see three Force users with light sabers in the old films so there was no reason to have more than the green, blue and red light-saber blades.

 

When I started work on the prequel trilogy, we obviously had the ability to create any color of light-saber blade. However, to retain continuity between the trilogies, I thought it best not to expand the range of colors for light-saber blades.

I like that quote, but it's not a quote from George. It's from Supershadow, who is an internet troll who likes to rile up Star Wars fans by posting 'facts' and 'interviews' and 'news' on his site.

 

But the spirit of the quote is still true: we only see 3 people using sabers in the OT (aside from Han, of course), and so we only see 3 colors. And we only saw that 3rd color because blue didn't look so good against the blue sky of 'Tatooine'. If George wasn't so set in his ways by the time of the PT, he may have realized that the reason he didn't show us any yellow, purple, or orange sabers in the OT is because THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND TO USE THEM.

[Asturias]

If we were the minority, Bioware would be on your side instead of ours.

 

No the original complaints on these forums was LS/DS restrictions on the faction you play. I agree a LS Sith should be able to equip a red saber but DS jedi should not be able to because its not the norm and the pazzaz of both factions are lost.

[Toonimator]

pazzaz

You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Caelrie]

No the original complaints on these forums was LS/DS restrictions on the faction you play. I agree a LS Sith should be able to equip a red saber but DS jedi should not be able to because its not the norm and the pazzaz of both factions are lost.

 

This doesn't change the fact that Bioware wouldn't make a change that makes a few players happy and angers the rest. YOU are the vocal minority, not us.

[Yuuj]

OP doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. He's already torn apart his own argument to the point where it is no longer valid, invented 'facts', resorted to personal attacks and attacks against a group of players, and discredited any actual facts presented to him so really there is no point in arguing this further.

 

Jedi will be able to use red crystals and sith will be able to use both blue and green crystals.

 

There will be Sith Pureblood Jedi.

 

Yes, there will be 'bad RPers' who roleplay it 'wrong.' Fortunately, these people already exist in the eyes of elitist players so nothing will change.

 

The only thing this kind of complaining will accomplish is ruining enjoyable storylines for players who actually care about their RP because you are so close minded that you've already shut your mind and imagination to the concepts players can come up with because 'they can't be canon!'

Edited March 9, 2012 by Yuuj

[Kindara]

No the original complaints on these forums was LS/DS restrictions on the faction you play. I agree a LS Sith should be able to equip a red saber but DS jedi should not be able to because its not the norm and the pazzaz of both factions are lost.

 

So basically because you don't feel its "pazzaz" you want to force that on others? Where's the pazzaz in freedom of choice? Even the DS Sith were able to choose but they wanted to use red so they made that "jazzy" decision on their own.

 

The fact you want to force your own personal policy on the whole entire situation and try to use EU lore and then some made up RP ridiculousness is just sad. They got to choose, we should get to choose. Someone thats an RPer should respect that and if they want to choose whats right for their character which is to respect whats popular with their Council they should be able too.

 

Anti Choice = no pazzaz

 

Seriously this whole pazzaz argument is just ridiculously funny. So Two Snaps to you killing your own arguments from Post 1 on your own thread.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Kindara

[Deimosion]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal

 

And the most important part of the page regarding the topic on hand.

 

"While the most common crystals used in the process were from the Adega system, Ilum, and Dantooine (in the so-called "Crystal Cave"), Jedi and Sith used a variety of crystals to produce various colors, effects and unique abilities. Some crystals could even enhance the Force skills of a particular user."

 

Basically both side used many colors. Jedi FAVORED blue/green and sith FAVORED red, but neither were restricted to those colors.

[Vecke]

I like how the vocal minority here who advocate for the unrestricted colors, act like they RP but I can see none of you don't and a lot of you stated it. Most of you have no clue but qoute your sources from KOTOR 1 & 2. A single player RPG were you played the iconic character in the EU. MMO are not single player games because you share that world with others. It is insulting to allow a mass influx of players to do what they want just because. This spoils the experience for many others on the opposite side of the spectrem and there should be a compromise. I dont want to see a million pure blooded jedi nights with red sabers running around, its stupid and spoils the uniquness.

 

The big three are iconic and it was established by thethe movies which everything EU is spin off from and you can go down town right now of every major city and ask people randomly what color does a Sith carry and 9 times out of 10 they will say RED.

 

Dont hate because i called you fashion lions out because that all you guys are really!

 

1. This game is a direct sequel to KOTOR 1 and 2. It's completely valid to expect continuity to match them.

 

2. Han Solo is my favorite character in Star Wars. He never - not once - shot a blaster with a green bolt in a movie. His iconic blaster fired red bolts. Your suggestion would not allow my smuggler to match that.

 

3. You're not on the side of the movies here. Your suggestion would go against the movies.

 

Do you seriously think you're going to see " a million pure blooded jedi knights with red sabers running around"?

 

You're assuming that because anybody can do something that everybody will do it.

 

Out of every person I know that's playing this game, one person wants to use a blue saber with their Sith. And he wants to do it because his Sith likes to use the sabers of fallen enemies, just like a character in the movies. Everybody else is using standard colors.

 

This is a full scale war with thousands of Jedi and thousands of Sith. Are you seriously suggesting that - out of all those thousands of force users - none of them would use sabers from the opposite sides? Are you seriously suggesting nobody would defect?

 

Let's say you're playing a Jedi. You've been questing for two hours and have killed at least 50 Sith (NPCs). Every one of them were carrying red or purple sabers. You then see a Pureblood run by carrying a red saber (your example). Are you seriously suggesting this would "ruin your experience"? Are you suggesting that you would see that person and think, "OMG, even though I just fought and killed 50 Sith using red sabers, I just saw one running by with a red saber! THIS GAME IS RUINED!"

 

People are grossly overstating this issue. Proportionately, the people using cross-faction sabers will be on par with what is shown in the movies AND in the EU.

[testszag]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal

 

And the most important part of the page regarding the topic on hand.

 

"While the most common crystals used in the process were from the Adega system, Ilum, and Dantooine (in the so-called "Crystal Cave"), Jedi and Sith used a variety of crystals to produce various colors, effects and unique abilities. Some crystals could even enhance the Force skills of a particular user."

 

Basically both side used many colors. Jedi FAVORED blue/green and sith FAVORED red, but neither were restricted to those colors.

 

this has been pointed out many times. they refuse to see it.

[testszag]

1. This game is a direct sequel to KOTOR 1 and 2. It's completely valid to expect continuity to match them.

 

2. Han Solo is my favorite character in Star Wars. He never - not once - shot a blaster with a green bolt in a movie. His iconic blaster fired red bolts. Your suggestion would not allow my smuggler to match that.

 

3. You're not on the side of the movies here. Your suggestion would go against the movies.

 

Do you seriously think you're going to see " a million pure blooded jedi knights with red sabers running around"?

 

You're assuming that because anybody can do something that everybody will do it.

 

Out of every person I know that's playing this game, one person wants to use a blue saber with their Sith. And he wants to do it because his Sith likes to use the sabers of fallen enemies, just like a character in the movies. Everybody else is using standard colors.

 

This is a full scale war with thousands of Jedi and thousands of Sith. Are you seriously suggesting that - out of all those thousands of force users - none of them would use sabers from the opposite sides? Are you seriously suggesting nobody would defect?

 

Let's say you're playing a Jedi. You've been questing for two hours and have killed at least 50 Sith (NPCs). Every one of them were carrying red or purple sabers. You then see a Pureblood run by carrying a red saber (your example). Are you seriously suggesting this would "ruin your experience"? Are you suggesting that you would see that person and think, "OMG, even though I just fought and killed 50 Sith using red sabers, I just saw one running by with a red saber! THIS GAME IS RUINED!"

 

People are grossly overstating this issue. Proportionately, the people using cross-faction sabers will be on par with what is shown in the movies AND in the EU.

 

hell, with over 1 mil subs, there are, conservatively, 250,000 force users in the game. that's only if less than %25 of the people have rolled one. it's insane for them to think that none of them would choose to use differet colors than the traditional ones

Edited March 9, 2012 by testszag

[mmjarec]

and the whole fact that you can be a good sith or a bad jedi are completely stupid as well.

[Wolfninjajedi]

and the whole fact that you can be a good sith or a bad jedi are completely stupid as well.

 

Why? So sith and jedi, can't have their own morals and views on things? Their not aloud to think for themselves?

Edited March 9, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Darth-Rion]

Well, according to lore a Dark Sided Jedi wouldn't want to expose himself do to the adverse action that would be taken against him from the Jedi Counsel.

 

The entire army of Dark Jedi from KotoR would like a word...

[GnatB]

2. But Anakin used his Blue Light Saber in EP3!

Explanation: Anakin just turned to the Dark Side of the Force and was immediately sent to kill the remaining separatist and exterminate the Jedi order. He did not have time, I repeat he did not have time to make a Synthetic Crystal.

(What you see in the movies and a design restriction in a video game is two different things. There is a reason why these three were restricted because BioWARE knows they are the iconic colors of the two factions.)

 

Conclusion: it is a CHOICE.

 

All the rest is largely irrelevant. So most sith CHOOSE to use red. So most Jedi CHOOSE to use blue, green, or yellow.

 

So, just as all the others, what we CHOOSE to use should be a choice. If we, as a sith, want to look unsithy... we should be able to CHOOSE to use whatever color we want. If we, as a Jedi, want to look like a sith for whatever reason... we should be able to CHOOSE to use red.

 

And we, as other players, should feel free to decline to group with, make fun of, etc. our fellow sith/jedi we see using untraditional colors.

 

As a Jedi, I have no plans whatsoever to use red. It looks stupid. But hey, if somebody WANTS to look stupid, that's their choice. Similarly, when I play my empire characters, I am definitely going to (try to) have red sabers. (though, I will almost certainly still go lightside, so under the old rules I wouldn't have been able to)

 

As for "keeping faction differences"? Please. If it's wearing brown ugly robes and has a saber... it's republic.

[Ardelia]

 

The big three are iconic and it was established by thethe movies which everything EU is spin off from and you can go down town right now of every major city and ask people randomly what color does a Sith carry and 9 times out of 10 they will say RED.

 

Dont hate because i called you fashion lions out because that all you guys are really!

 

Actually, the EU was spun off the original three movies...the bulk of the lore-basis EU was published BEFORE Lucas vomited The Phantom Mess all over the lore.

 

In those original three movies, we had exactly 3 saber-wielders to compare ...and those three movies said nothing about why each used the color they did.

 

So, if that's your lore basis, you:

 

• Will never play a Chiss, a pureblood Sith, or any other playable race outside of humans or Twilek....the lore doesn't support them.
  
• Aren't ok with there being more than 2 Sith at a time.
  
• Find 90% of this game to be absolutely absurd, from a lore basis.
  

 

You can't simply pick and choose which parts of the EU you're willing to accept to make your argument. You either accept what's been shown over and over again via the EU, or you don't, and insist that only the movies are canon. If that's your lore-basis, though, might as well quit now; unrestricted crystal colors are the least of your concerns.

 

I could care less what the people downtown say about it....why would we use the (presumably) least lore-educated sample group to prove a point?

Edited March 10, 2012 by Ardelia