Sorcerers... do they really need ALL these abilities?

[SinnedWill]

Um, what? Sorc/sage can only do 600k damage if:

1) They continually cast force storm on a group of enemies who have healers that aren't being focused, therefore, no one is dying.

2) Dot everything and the other team's sorc/sage forget what purge is.

3) Same as 1: only use Force lightning/death field -proc chain lightning... Still not focusing the healers and repeating.

^ 1 and 3 of this list is only good for defense at doors, by the way. 600k damage only means you know what an AOE button is and where to use it to inflate numbers. (IE, you were useless for half the match)

 

No sorc/sage will put up 600k numbers if they're single targeting or actually being useful and taking out healers // focus targets. Your 350k number is probably more accurate (and still on the high side) for this in the entire match.

 

If you read what I said with more scrutiny you'll notice that I stated "if left unchecked" meaning you're at sniping range as a hybrid dps sorc/sage who's not getting killed or having force lightning interrupted. Only time I used force storm as a hybrid dps spec was right after doors pop and enemies are clustered in the tunnel heading to the next rooms and its dps isn't much of a factor towards the overall dps being dealt. I'd start out by stunning a known sage healer whom is usually in the middle outside the clustered targets I intended to AoE and if they used their stunbreak on that, then I'd follow it with a hurricane. After that, I'd pop my expertise adrenal and search for either a sentinel, commando, or my favorite prime target being healer scoundrel that happens to be near their cluster, upon whom I'd start with force lightning until I get a wrath proc. Now comes the damage - use my critical/surge relic + recklessness then chain lightning immediately followed by death field. I'll usually then use force lightning which I end early with a shock to finish the healer scoundrel and likely hit chain lightning again if I have a wrath proc. After that it's force lightning and lightning strike to finish off the sturdier survivors to maintain my force pool's maintenance. Rinse and repeat - that cycle I just gave usually gets me about 100-150k damage depending on the how sturdy the enemy group is.

[dcgregorya]

Still, technically they are easiest class for us to kill solo IF we can keep them in range and in sight (thanks in part due to that little talked about "Light Armor").

 

Their higher base defense and bubble makes them actually harder for a sniper to kill than another sniper...operative, or DPS assassin or mercenary thanks to how mitigation works.

 

Anyway, just because a lot of sorcs you fight are bad doesn't make what you're saying true - mechanically and mitigation wise, a sorc is tankier than a gunslinger is regardless of armor difference.

 

On a mitigation and cooldown level, mechanically, a sniper is the most fragile class in the game. Followed by operative. Followed by DPS assassin. Then mercenary. Then DPS powertech. Then sorc. Then marauder. Then dedicated tanks (tank sin, tank powertech, tank jugg).

Edited March 8, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Tatermitts]

Question or QQ. Not sure.

 

http://memecreator.net/futurama-fry/showimage.php/9561/Not-sure-if-question-or-QQ.jpg

[Typheran]

we have light armour to make up for it

 

It's been mathematically proven that light armor + bubble > Heavy armor.

[mjohnsonfhk]

quit complaining about sorcs

 

they are the class that goes down in pvp the fastest, once the enemies are geared in champ and above.

The Damage output simply goes higher and higher, while the bubble gets more and more useless.

Even sorc healers are quite easy to kill ... and that with the force bending bug in place.

 

Right now sorcs die in every 1on1 (except against some poor agent/smuggler specs)

 

It's ture, they rock in lvl1-49 brackets and vs people who don't have full champ set, but once that tier is reached (which most people have in lvl50 wz's) they die within seconds.

 

If you are having this many problems on a sorc, i feel for you. Id start by binding keys.

[SinnedWill]

Their higher base defense and bubble makes them actually harder for a sniper to kill than another sniper...operative, or DPS assassin or mercenary thanks to how mitigation works.

 

Anyway, just because a lot of sorcs you fight are bad doesn't make what you're saying true - mechanically and mitigation wise, a sorc is tankier than a gunslinger is regardless of armor difference.

 

On a mitigation and cooldown level, mechanically, a sniper is the most fragile class in the game. Followed by operative. Followed by DPS assassin. Then mercenary. Then DPS powertech. Then sorc. Then marauder. Then dedicated tanks (tank sin, tank powertech, tank jugg).

 

Only true if sniper/slinger isn't in cover (which i'll admit is very easily done). If they ARE in cover, then the only real squishiness they have is a vulnerability to internal/elemental damage if they don't have the buff from a consular/inquis (which gives +10% I/E resist). But yes, Snipers and slingers can really mess up my Marauder when I'm busy taking out another person. Hell, if they get a couple shots in on me before I'm in melee range, they'll usually force me to use force camouflage and attempt to get to LoS... and a slinger's DoT does crazy damage to my marauder (especially if I don't have an inquisitor buff on) - that dam thing has critted my marauder for 2200's damage per tick.

[Moondragon]

Answer: Yes

[sneroplex]

As a Sage I used to feel OP in pre-50 brackets but in end game you see much less sorc/sages. Now I literally need all of my abilities just to survive and make a dent in the opposition.

[jayfourc]

Knockbacks, roots, stuns, sprints, CC AND bubble?

 

Are all of these really necessary???

 

 

64 gunslinger here.

 

I have all of that, except for the sprint. I feel like 35 m range on everything, and a 40 m (set bonus) instant 3K finishing nuke (on avg, including crits) makes up for it. Oh and 80% of my damage ignores armor and stacks up like a freight train. My ranged interrupt goes out to 40 m (set bonus) on a 12 s timer. I have a 20 seconds of invulnerability to CC's, and the massive AOE cast I have can't be interrupt when I'm in cover.

 

I eat sorcs for lunch. So no, this qq/complaint is unnecessary. Every class is OP when played well against someone that isn't playing well.

[Puppup]

Do you really need all those stupid X's in your name?

[Sun-Tzu]

For light armor wearers, they're magically tough to kill most of the time.

 

Either they have good healers with them or you aren't doing enough dps.

[Calista_ZK]

Yeah sorry, how ignorant of me.

 

• Spammable attack with a built in slow,
  

 

Thank you for correcting me on that.

 

I could theoretically use resolute to free myself from a snare I wonder what would happen if I tried that against lightning?

 

Personally I have no problem with sorcs, it just make me laugh when ever anyone challenges a sorc player about the skills they have at their disposale how overly defensive they become.

 

I don't have my violin with me today so I can't help with the ambiance - sorry guys.

 

Let's see-- effectively heal AND DPS is when you lost me, was laughing so hard at the old 31/31/31 mythical sorc/sage spec- you lost all credibility there.

 

If you think that a DPS specced sage provides "effective" healing in PVP... they MAY get a self heal.. they MAY get to help someone else...but heal the group effectively..

Edited March 8, 2012 by Calista_ZK

[SinnedWill]

It's been mathematically proven that light armor + bubble > Heavy armor.

 

My bubble absorbs about 3200 damage. Many classes are capable of doing around that much if not more (rage juggs/guardians, marauders, sentinels, snipers, slingers, mercs, commandos, etc.) with a single attack due to light armor. And all except the juggs/guardians are capable of following up these attacks with either the same attack they used to break bubble or other attacks that can come close to the same amount of damage with the exception of jugg/guardians whom after using force scream for decent damage have to wait on their smash's cooldown, but that's simple enough for them with charge/choke/throw to buy time). Ops/Scoundrels and p-techs/vanguards usually have a tougher time breaking the bubble with 1-2 attacks, but some of them can.

 

Basically, light armor + bubble > heavy armor tanking is about as true as having ZERO armor + bubble > heavy armor since the only damage sorc/sages can always mitigate better than a heavy armor wearer is internal/elemental, which we get 10% in from our buffs, so armor isn't a factor there. If you want to test your theory MATHEMATICALLY have a sniper duel (well, duel, but sniper is only one attacking) both a sorcerer and a heavy armor wearer whom are equally geared. I'll even go so far as to say let the sorcerer have a bubble's CD finished while bubble's still up before the sniper starts shooting so that the sorc will be able to cast a second bubble before dying, then have your heavy armor duel the sniper and only use your shorter CD timed defensive buff(s) active. Who dies quicker? Sorc, guaranteed.

 

Furthermore, if your statement were true, why is it that you don't see Sorc/Sage tanking endgame bosses instead of a heavy armor wearer (or Darkness Assassin)?

 

Seriously, go test stuff out before you state something is "mathematically proven".

[XenonParsec]

Wasn't enough sorc QQ on the forums lately, glad the OP stepped up with his L2P issues.

[xJeTsTaRx]

might aswell have heavy armor and no bubble u would be more squishy!

 

edit:

 

It's been mathematically proven that light armor + bubble > Heavy armor.

 

 

 

enough said

Edited March 8, 2012 by xJeTsTaRx

[Redmarx]

Actually it's been mathematically proven that heavy armor > light armor + bubbles + everything including the kitchen sink.

 

Check http://www.sithwarrior.com - specifically their tanking guides.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Redmarx

[SinnedWill]

might aswell have heavy armor and no bubble u would be more squishy!

 

edit:

 

 

 

 

 

enough said

 

Only to Internal/Elemental damage. Against energy/kinetic damages, light armor + one bubble is about equal to a heavy armor wearer that isn't using any defensive cooldowns.

[xJeTsTaRx]

My bubble absorbs about 3200 damage. Many classes are capable of doing around that much if not more (rage juggs/guardians, marauders, sentinels, snipers, slingers, mercs, commandos, etc.) with a single attack due to light armor. And all except the juggs/guardians are capable of following up these attacks with either the same attack they used to break bubble or other attacks that can come close to the same amount of damage with the exception of jugg/guardians whom after using force scream for decent damage have to wait on their smash's cooldown, but that's simple enough for them with charge/choke/throw to buy time). Ops/Scoundrels and p-techs/vanguards usually have a tougher time breaking the bubble with 1-2 attacks, but some of them can.

 

Basically, light armor + bubble > heavy armor tanking is about as true as having ZERO armor + bubble > heavy armor since the only damage sorc/sages can always mitigate better than a heavy armor wearer is internal/elemental, which we get 10% in from our buffs, so armor isn't a factor there. If you want to test your theory MATHEMATICALLY have a sniper duel (well, duel, but sniper is only one attacking) both a sorcerer and a heavy armor wearer whom are equally geared. I'll even go so far as to say let the sorcerer have a bubble's CD finished while bubble's still up before the sniper starts shooting so that the sorc will be able to cast a second bubble before dying, then have your heavy armor duel the sniper and only use your shorter CD timed defensive buff(s) active. Who dies quicker? Sorc, guaranteed.

 

Furthermore, if your statement were true, why is it that you don't see Sorc/Sage tanking endgame bosses instead of a heavy armor wearer (or Darkness Assassin)?

 

Seriously, go test stuff out before you state something is "mathematically proven".

 

your forgetting if your properly specced into that bubble you also stun people when it pops, and then you have your other abilities to slow them, root them and run away while ur bubble CD finishes.

[Psiwolf]

As a healing sorc, yes, we need every single utility spell out there to survive the focus fires and the standing still to cast our bigger (better) heals. I don't cry about being marked/focus fired every warzone and having to stand to cast so quit complaining about me being able to use my utility spells (which some of super long cooldowns) to survive an encounter.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and I heard we wear light armor.

[xJeTsTaRx]

compare your OP class with a deception spec'ed assassin when it comes to survivability. They also wear light armor and damage is about equal.

[taylorotf]

we have light armor to make up for it

[Typheran]

My bubble absorbs about 3200 damage. Many classes are capable of doing around that much if not more (rage juggs/guardians, marauders, sentinels, snipers, slingers, mercs, commandos, etc.) with a single attack due to light armor. And all except the juggs/guardians are capable of following up these attacks with either the same attack they used to break bubble or other attacks that can come close to the same amount of damage with the exception of jugg/guardians whom after using force scream for decent damage have to wait on their smash's cooldown, but that's simple enough for them with charge/choke/throw to buy time). Ops/Scoundrels and p-techs/vanguards usually have a tougher time breaking the bubble with 1-2 attacks, but some of them can.

 

Basically, light armor + bubble > heavy armor tanking is about as true as having ZERO armor + bubble > heavy armor since the only damage sorc/sages can always mitigate better than a heavy armor wearer is internal/elemental, which we get 10% in from our buffs, so armor isn't a factor there. If you want to test your theory MATHEMATICALLY have a sniper duel (well, duel, but sniper is only one attacking) both a sorcerer and a heavy armor wearer whom are equally geared. I'll even go so far as to say let the sorcerer have a bubble's CD finished while bubble's still up before the sniper starts shooting so that the sorc will be able to cast a second bubble before dying, then have your heavy armor duel the sniper and only use your shorter CD timed defensive buff(s) active. Who dies quicker? Sorc, guaranteed.

 

Furthermore, if your statement were true, why is it that you don't see Sorc/Sage tanking endgame bosses instead of a heavy armor wearer (or Darkness Assassin)?

 

Seriously, go test stuff out before you state something is "mathematically proven".

 

*Sigh*

 

Ok.. baby steps.

 

Sorcs dont tank because they dont have any other midigation abilities for PVE

 

in PVP Bubble + Light armor + Healing + Force sprint and rebubble = great midigation.

 

As long as your are not heavily focused you can last the 20 sec to rebubble.

 

And now you know... and knowing is half the battle.

G.I. Joe.

[RahlLegacy]

Knockbacks, roots, stuns, sprints, CC AND bubble?

 

Are all of these really necessary???

 

Oh man! I want to thank you so much for bringing this to the attention of the people on the forums. You are the first person to ever ask this question and deserve a free month of game time.

[Fatbaldandalone]

l2 interrupt

[Numerii]

The only thing they have that I don't think they should is a Sprint.

 

Sprint should be for gap closing or escaping. They have no need to close gaps since they're ranged, and they have enough knock-backs, snares and stuns to use for escapes.

 

Sprint should have only been available to Shadows/Assassins.

 

lol ok guy. The only ACs I can consistently get away from are Ops/Scoundrels. Every other melee seems to be able to match me and maintain uptime. I might buy myself a 3-4 sec window a couple times in a 1v1, but I can never just kite someone to death, except Ops/Scoundrels.

 

Now, if you're just talking about those Sorcs who cut and run from every fight, sure. But what exactly is the problem with that? You didn't get your kill?