Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm not really sure why this is even up for debate, when it's based on preference. How some prefer to play may not be my personal preference. If my method works for me, then why should there be any problem? How I click or button push to take care of my business is no one elses (as long as I'm not breaking the rules anyway). player preference isn't what's being debated. I think most people in this thread are of the "play how you want" sentiment. The claim is that the best clicker will never be as good as the best keybinder. welcome to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Swtor is almost a pro-clicker interface due to the fact the UI is so bad. At cap you have more skills and clickies than you have bar slots for. It kinda forces clicking by poor design. I have 20 abilities tied to my mouse and I use 30 or more so i find myself clicking from time to time anyway. They really could and should create a macro system allowing us to tie a few abilities together. I am not talking rift here, more limited than that. Hunting around bars takes away from the game. By allowing a few skills to be tied to the same button through macroing would streamline combat and make the game more enjoyable for many. i will agree that the UI is terrible, but it is far from impossible to bind all your skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haralin Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) As healer i click the guys who need heal, so i must walk/run with wasd, as DPS i keybind most action and do some clicks Edited March 13, 2012 by Haralin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agenteusa Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Hybrid is good. I use the WASD and all the key around and i also keybind mouse keys which is even more effective to me. I used to just keybind keys but now being an hybrid is even better. Clickers can´t be as fast as keybinders if youre going to be hovering over every abilty you intend to use. keybinders can´t be as precise moving with the mouse as you are with WASD imo. Edited March 13, 2012 by Agenteusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
System_Crush Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) The difference between clickers and keybinders is not in how fast they activate their abilities, 1.5 sec global cooldown is plenty of time to move your mouse to any point on the screen. Its in weather or not you find the loss of mouse turning acceptable. Which many feel is a mobility issue, and thus affects speed of gameplay... While in fact circle strafing is equally available to both solutions. I am a keybinder and I admit SWTOR makes it hard on me. Not only having a large amount of skills that need to be bound, but also having no hotbar lay out that matches the positions of: ~12345 tbQ[]ER [][][][]F []ZXCV Requiring me to mentally map 2 rows of darkened cooldown positions to 4 real life keyboard rows. The key binding unfriendliness goes so far that TOR even has bugs mapping friendly targeted abilities to the 4th and 5th mouse buttons (when the mouse is over the chat or in the team window the keybinds stop working) At times I've been using 1 hand to drink coffee, I can just switch to clicking my main rotation without missing a beat, global cooldown gives me plenty of time. Its just that I can't click and turn at the same time. Edited March 13, 2012 by System_Crush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMornard Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What will people ivent next?!!...That i am a "Boober"??!, because same times by breasts touched the keyboard and for that i am a less player than others?! Brava.... I have no reply I can make to this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipher_nemo Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Brava.... I have no reply I can make to this.... lol, indeed. I tried to pretend that post never existed... until you replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmtvaroha Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I believe your polls are flawed since there's no allowance for people that perform a combination of techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileithia Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I do both.. PVE - Raid healer in MANY MMOs.. clicking is way more efficient for me. Never been a macro user either.. Click person in raid window.. click ability.. win.. I just move the raid window to just over the hotbar I have a Merc Stealth keyboard (Full keyboard with gamepad to the side) though so 1-12, QWERASD, and Space/Control/etc all accessable from one hand easily.. with raised/lowered keys and alignments so you don't have to look down to know what you're hitting. Never had issues "Getting out of the bad" on Raids with this setup as it's natural to move around using right click for camera turning PVP. Mouse to move/run.. 1-12 for most used abilities and 1 bound button on my mouse (Thumb) to change targets. Need to be able to turn fast in PVP and can't have a finger locked on the W key LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AurakaSith Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I got to page 22 and couldnt take anymore.... PvP'ers KEYBIND is typically better (in most MMO's) PvE'ers CLICKING & KEYBINDs are typically equal (situational) EITHER type of play requires practice to be good at - so if you started MMO's as a clicker, it will take some time before you are good as a keybinder, and vice versa... BUT to sum up what 22 pages of this topic has actually proven... ...this argument is not actually about Keybind vs Clicking... its aboutPvP vs PvE.... (and the patch to seperate gear hasnt even come out yet.... sheesh!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztee Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I got to page 22 and couldnt take anymore.... PvP'ers KEYBIND is typically better (in most MMO's) PvE'ers CLICKING & KEYBINDs are typically equal (situational) EITHER type of play requires practice to be good at - so if you started MMO's as a clicker, it will take some time before you are good as a keybinder, and vice versa... BUT to sum up what 22 pages of this topic has actually proven... ...this argument is not actually about Keybind vs Clicking... its aboutPvP vs PvE.... (and the patch to seperate gear hasnt even come out yet.... sheesh!) Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudgersmith Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Clicker is fine for PVE but PVPits a big NoNo! When pvping you. An always tell a clicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterData Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 When pvping you. An always tell a clicker Pveing too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dataquid Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Im a mix of clicker and keybinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORTTUUM Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I can understand if its towards the slower clicking people because I know a few people like that and it annoys me to watch them play Then don't watch, and quit snivling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degarmo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) There's a lot to be said for anticipation, situational awareness, skill knowledge, character class knowledge, game mechanics knowledge, and many other types of knowledge. Clicking or keybinding is just the interface. The "all things being equal" argument doesn't fly, because in most cases, all things aren't equal. Edited March 14, 2012 by Degarmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmygo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well said. In addition, clicking means you have to turn with your keys and this is completely gimping your ability to perform any "quick" changes of direction. Now, if all you are doing is solo content in PvE, then by all means, do what you will. But if you want to be competitive in PvP or do any group content like Ops or FP's, then I would suggest you learn a better, more efficient method. Or get yourself a G13 and G700 with all kinds of combos and a joystick for movement (and still learn not to click). I beg to differ. On wow, Yes i know this isnt wow, Im in a 5/8 HM guild. Half of us are clickers. If you are used to clicking then that is what you will be better at. I can strafe and move all while clicking. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Probably the worst detriment of clicking is when you want to wade in and use several abilities off the GCD in a short period. I'll wade into a big melee and pop my adrenal, relic, recklessness, and aoe taunt then light someone up. It's awkward even pressing all the keys one after another, moving the mouse around to press 4 different things? There's no way you're stepping in, hitting someone, then doing all that by moving the mouse around to click 4 things without the GCD resetting and some time elapsing before you hit someone again. In reality what'll happen is something like "attack, pop adrenal, pop relic *GCD refreshes, dead time*, pop recklessness, pop aoe taunt *GCD could have refreshed again by now if you hit something* NOW I'M READY! There are quite a few abilities in this game off the GCD that are used regularly too, it definitely isn't a situation of "as long as I can make it to one button per GCD there's no loss". Sometimes I'll be fighting someone and they turn to hit someone else nearby. Now I want to taunt them, then use target of target hotkey, then guard, then tab back to enemy. I hope no one is trying to click that out while maintaining offense. Hell I probably miss out on some time on the GCD doing these things within fractions of a second and I'm a quick typist with nimble fingers used to doing stuff like that in pvp. Forget about a mouse clicking it out. Oh and meaningful movement too while doing so. Of course for PVE, it doesn't really matter. There isn't anything that demands much in the way of precision in control the vast majority of the time. The skill in those depends more on planning before the fight started, knowledge and coordination with teammates. Your dexterity at manipulating the controls usually isn't called to task unless you're particularly slow. Edited March 14, 2012 by ShadowOfVey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swtonewbie Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I started out in first person shooters like Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon when they first came out. Because of that i made the transition to MMO's as a non clicker. Also when i first starting raiding in WoW I kept challenging myself to do harder and harder things with the keyboard/mouse all while keeping my eye on the area surrounding my character. Doing something like circle strafing while jumping, avoiding fire, panning around, circle strafing again all while continuing to do my rotation without missing a beat. Because of all the above my attention is always 100% on the gaming environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonofdeath Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think there needs to be more of a differentiation with regards to clicker and keybinder. Personally I think keybinding is the superior way to play but with that said I am a clicker. I jsut hate keybinding and whilst I do keybind a few things I for the most part click. But I don't keyboard turn not in the traditional sense anyway. When I am moving I am using the mouse for fast quick turns and keyboard for small and minor adjustments, admitedly this method does cut into my dps when I move but I find my rotation is so tight when I am not moving that the difference is not really noticable. I have played for years as a clicker including several years in top 10-20 server guilds, beating many if not all of the same class who keybind in my raid group. I had a friend who I have raided with for years come visit recently and and was absolutly gobsmacked I was a clicker to quote him "*** man how the hell do manage to kick my arse in dps half the time being a clicker", we play the same class and where often very closley geared. I think for those that click they need to be very good at what they do and need some form of hybrid movement system, you can't straight keyboard turn that is for sure. Ohhh this all works well and good in PVE but in PVP the keybinder will always have the giant advantage there is jsut so much mroe movement not a problem for me as I really don't enjoy PvP but if I did I would have to switch to a keybound approach. I never straight up dismiss a clicker but I am wary of my breathren, I have seen many keybinders that still suck the big one over the years so that alone does not make a player good or competent. Proper class research and rotations in PvE will often far outweigh the advantage of keybinding. Pointless arguing either way if your toon is ill geared with the wrong stats, poor spec and a lazy rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I use to be a "clicker", I use to keyboard turn and back peddle. I use to say to myself I cant do keybinds, I cant turn with my mouse I just would not be good and successful at it. Then I bought a Razer Naga. After an initial learning curb, I now have everything key bound minus the mount and the group buff. I am twice as effective in pvp with keybinds as I was as a clicker. My main reason is its faster, way faster imho, when I clicked I used a trackball so I thought I was good at it. But having to click on a side toolbar, go back to the main toolbar was inefficient. I no longer have to look at the toolbars I can now focus on the battle. I bound my "s" key to darkward so I am constantly using it. I turn faster, and just have a way better grasp of the battle. If you say you cant keybind give it a shot. It took me a little under two weeks to get the hang of it and I am never going back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigota Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) What if you key bind 85% and click 15%.. Edited March 14, 2012 by Rigota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahkronn Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The Clickers Vs Binders wars ended with the rise of GCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan_alexandru Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Clicking is not bad it's just a bad habit with limitations. Let's face it most of us started of as clickers. Keybinding makes everything much easyer and you have a more effective gameplay. Dunno why all this hate between the 2 styles but i guarantee that once you try keybinds and you get used to them you will never want to click again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 i guarantee that once you try keybinds and you get used to them you will never want to click again.Nah, I still prefer clicking most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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