MrSteebin Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The reason people are getting bored isn't because their gear grind feels pointless. It's because the pvp is extremely shallow. We have 3 warzone that we have played way too much and Ilum is garbage. My characters in pvp really aren't that interesting compared to other games either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudmungus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) You don't read much huh? Clearly says he has several alts and doesn't see the point. Alts in this game are no different from in WoW. Just another long grind session. What gets me is that people take so long to realise that they're choosing to engage with something that is quantifiable, something we can study and learn from. It's as if they think that games today have become something other than revenue sources for investors.. o_o The days of the attic coder and his buddies knocking out something for themselves that struck a chord with the masses are gone - games are big business, we are consumers. Consumers need food - suppliers will find the cheapest ways of sating your hunger. :: For the epeen: I have papers with my name on it next to Computer and Visualistaion and Game Design. I have friends who work for EA (Boo!), Crytek, the-sods-behind-those-damned-lego-games, Jagex, Lionhead and a few others who flit between companies - the bottom line is product comes first. We need our fix, the supplier will provide - it's in the supplier's interest to give us as much as we're willing to pay for as possible for as cheap as possible. Gear/'itemisation' - is a classic example of milking us. Moo. 'E-Sports' are the up-and-coming platform for mass milking. Tune in, cough up, be quiet. Edited March 6, 2012 by Scudmungus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have played FPS's since I was 7 years old. I have been killing other players in video games for the majority of my life. And tell me. If WoW PvP is a joke, then why is it the foremost MMO esport? Fail troll is fail. Not taking anything away from your experience, you may very well be a solid PvP'er. But considering "e-sport" to be competitive PvP is where the fail is. War Zones are cute little grind areas that require a little strategy and the right builds. It doesn't really take much to be successful in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudmungus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Not taking anything away from your experience, you may very well be a solid PvP'er. But considering "e-sport" to be competitive PvP is where the fail is. War Zones are cute little grind areas that require a little strategy and the right builds. It doesn't really take much to be successful in them. Now, come on - let them enjoy their fantasy. If the dog didn't believe they could catch the rabbit, they wouldn't chase it. :: There will always be a need for race horses to wage money on. 'E-Sports' are great - for everyone tied into the profile generation, publicity, hardware/licence sales. Maybe, eventually, we'll see long term pensions and care packages for such 'athletes'. Maybe. Edited March 6, 2012 by Scudmungus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Not taking anything away from your experience, you may very well be a solid PvP'er. But considering "e-sport" to be competitive PvP is where the fail is. War Zones are cute little grind areas that require a little strategy and the right builds. It doesn't really take much to be successful in them. The esport I am talking about isn't a warzone or a battleground, it's the arena where it was very competitive for me and the others that I played with. Edited March 6, 2012 by Niaoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Now, come on - let them enjoy their fantasy. If the dog didn't believe they could catch the rabbit, they wouldn't chase it. :: There will always be a need for race horses to wage money on. 'E-Sports' are great - for everyone tied into the profile generation, publicity, hardware/licence sales. Maybe, eventually, we'll see long term pensions and care packages for such 'athletes'. Maybe. Korea is already ahead of the game. Players raking in 300k a year from tournament winnings alone don't need pensions or care packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numerii Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The skill cap in successful fighting games is significantly higher than any MMORPG. The progression comes from the player evolving their understanding of the Metagame, improving their execution, and using all facets of that, to properly predict and interrupt their opponent. MMORPGs won't have that level of detail, due to the the fact that even at its best, we're dealing with ~100 ms latency round trip. That's six frames of animation in a two dimensional fighter, which is the time it takes for a moderately damaging move to bring out its hitbox. [Jabs are usually between 2-3 frames.] Outside of character choice [match ups, tiers matter], it is purely player driven because the player has the ability to become dramatically better. MMORPGs are predominantly class, specification, and gear driven. Skill does come in, but the cap is relatively small in comparison. Situational awareness and positioning combined with more than just one opponent on your screen bro. In terms of purely 1v1 you have a point, but these games are never about 1v1. I'd say anyone that can actually track multiple targets, knows what buffs/debuffs those players have, keeps a running count of whether or not everyone has used their CDs, and still maintain all those things with their character while making the right decision every GCD is indeed skilled. It's a different skillset from 1v1 in 2D fighters or whatever, but to say the cap is small...Sir, the cap is probably impossible for humans to get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Now, come on - let them enjoy their fantasy. If the dog didn't believe they could catch the rabbit, they wouldn't chase it. :: There will always be a need for race horses to wage money on. 'E-Sports' are great - for everyone tied into the profile generation, publicity, hardware/licence sales. Maybe, eventually, we'll see long term pensions and care packages for such 'athletes'. Maybe. Well considering pro gaming is gigantic in Korea (they make 6 figure wages, the average pro gamer makes more than the average Korean), I can see it quickly gaining more popularity here in the US. I'm a firm supporter of this, being an athlete does not have to only include physical strength but also mental agility. Its growing here in US already, if you are familiar with games such as DoTA or LoL - these games have a huge following regardless of the fact that it requires the use of only 4-5 abilities. Edited March 6, 2012 by VertisReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudmungus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) The esport I am talking about isn't a warzone or a battleground, it's the arena where it was very competitive for me and the others that I played with. I get it - it was/is special to you. It's not easy, it was/is a challenge that you met and bested. I don't want to detract from that. While you personally became involved you endorsed a style of design that ultimately treats gamers like revenue-generating-commodities, cash-cows- and places pressure on the developers, the suppliers to supply. The publishers, they're the real sods. Without them most games don't get off the ground - want a game? You need representation - and that costs hard cash. Hard cash must be returned, within strict time limits - EA doesn't force companies to rush crappy bug-ridden produce for the betterment of our lives. Developers have to meet deadlines or they don't get the cash in next time - it's that simple. Where ever cash is the bottom line, quality will suffer unless the consumer hold the supplier accountable. You had fun in arenas - you kicked ***. Great. Now, what sucked about the process? What could, upon reflection, change? What was essential to the challenge -- -- and what was put in place simply to force an extended investiture of time - netting money? Elements like gear-for-time-played are classic examples of cost-effective time sinks. They're introduced to get folk to play for longer, to keep them paying money. ..and it works. ..because people let them. Some might find it fun - while this *cheaper* technique works, *more expensive* techniques that ultimately produce a higher quality of product - and better entertainment for all, are not used, because hey, if we're willing to pay for cheap X, why waste cash on quality-but-more-expensive-Y? Since we're getting historical, our first game console was an Atari 2600, fresh of the line. Those joysticks were pro. Yo. Edited March 7, 2012 by Scudmungus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDeas Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It sounds quite plainly like you burned the game out. You dedicated yourself to it so much (I assume 2 50's as you refer to an alt BM gear) that you are bored with it now because it has become the norm. IMO, this is nothing to do with the game as every game has the occassional person that burns themselves out and runs out of things to do. My advise is leave it for a month or 2, come back then and it'll be like discovering a whole new game as you gain a completely different perspective and regain that sense of anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 It sounds quite plainly like you burned the game out. You dedicated yourself to it so much (I assume 2 50's as you refer to an alt BM gear) that you are bored with it now because it has become the norm. IMO, this is nothing to do with the game as every game has the occassional person that burns themselves out and runs out of things to do. My advise is leave it for a month or 2, come back then and it'll be like discovering a whole new game as you gain a completely different perspective and regain that sense of anticipation. Perhaps. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Explain to me why everyone will not be queuing up for the rated warzones. Explain what the purpose of the none rated WZ especially if you don't get anything for it and still have the chance to see a pile of War Hero gear in unrated wz's. Honestly, BW has not put any thought into this at all. They are just throwing out stuff that they think people will want to hear because their pvp team is completely lost. Hehe...dude, you are so right. +Rep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulltramagns Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Um wait what? Why does better gear need to be a motivation for playing rated warzones? Imo its the opposite, get the best gear to do your best in rated warzone, not do good in it to get better gear then other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztee Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We do not know the requirements for War Hero, outside of that it won't require Valor. It could be tied to Rank, it could be tied to Commendations that are only handed out to players that win and achieve a certain amount of objective medals. All we can do is speculate. As mentioned, I'd just start to prepare for 1.2 by getting two other characters to Chapter 2 to always have the best possible buff on. Can you explain this? Why would i need 2 alts progressed to chap 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taruwa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think you summed it up when you said "there is nothing I can do that would matter" that's the problem. Nothing matters in this game. There's nothing to fight for. They forgot to add in something that could be won or lost that anyone cared about in PVP. They even made PVP a grind. You grind for valor points to buy gear....yipeee who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigSebes Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Can you explain this? Why would i need 2 alts progressed to chap 2? With the legacy system you will be able to have the class buff of other classes you leveled, any and all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztee Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 With the legacy system you will be able to have the class buff of other classes you leveled, any and all of them. Thats cool i guess .... Where is the legacy info you guys have obtained? i cant seem to find any confirmed info?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 With the legacy system you will be able to have the class buff of other classes you leveled, any and all of them. If you're in a WZ, you're going to be buffed with all the other classes buffs anyway, so I don't see why I should get a 50 of each. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Would be interesting if they have a Valor requirement to queue for Ranked. [say, Valor 50?] If they did that, the entitlement crowd would cry that it's "unfair". This game is being dragged down by the casual players, but if that's is where bioware think the money is, then they will continue to bow to their every wish. They are trivialising the valor rank system and in the process trivialising PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) You don't read much huh? Clearly says he has several alts and doesn't see the point. Alts in this game are no different from in WoW. Just another long grind session. what else does this person, or you, want from the forums with a post like this? a cookie? a pat on the back? someone to agree with you? us begging you to stay? there's a form you can fill out when you unsub that lets you put in all this information. and i bet it gets read by the correct people more often than these threads on the forum do. if the OP is truly competitive, then they'll go out and find competition. whether it's bringing it from outside sources, pulling people from other servers, or even rolling on a better server. Edited March 7, 2012 by FourTwent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If they did that, the entitlement crowd would cry that it's "unfair". This game is being dragged down by the casual players, but if that's is where bioware think the money is, then they will continue to bow to their every wish. They are trivialising the valor rank system and in the process trivialising PvP. The "entitlement crowd" is the non-casual players in my book. And you are right, they would cry that it's unfair. I support this, there should be a valor requirement on ranked matches. I would even want to go so far as to propose a valor requirement to even play in the level 50 pvp bracket. I mean they already have shown that actual player and gear level is no big deal, they could just as simple have level 50 characters under, say, 30 valor play with the 10-49 crowd. This would solve a lot of issues in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 When I logged in this morning I was elected "President of PVP" by an assortment of game designers in different genres that unanimously agreed I was not only the best player ever but the best in life as well. I even got a cool hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 When I logged in this morning I was elected "President of PVP" by an assortment of game designers in different genres that unanimously agreed I was not only the best player ever but the best in life as well. I even got a cool hat. When I was elected, I only got a mouse pad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbyt Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 play for the fun of it? I'll never understand you carrot and stick people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moomtazz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You sound like you have a whole bunch of free time on your hands. Maybe you could get a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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