WereMops Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 "We're sorry, you've already voted in this poll!". No I haven't. What the hell? OP made a boo-boo when he created the link, he links to the results/already answered part, either use the back button below the results, strip everything from the first underscore in the link or simply use this link which is the correct one http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo_Han Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 EXACTLY. A toggle option is a great idea. Let it be up to the group. Let a guild operate the way they choose. If it's a PUG, set up the rules in the beginning, if anyone disagrees, they can leave. As I've said throughout this thread. I understand the arguments for and against, I just don't understand why there has to be a split. When everyone can get what they want. The original threat meters and damage meters in WoW only worked if other people had them too, and then only if you wanted to share your data with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgtide Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) No I just want to enjoy playing the game without having some jerk give my toon a colonoscopy every time they start feeling self righteous (Which is most of the time). Been there. Done that. Got the T-Shirt, and ran like hell away to a *new* MMO that did not encourage such behavior. Leave well enough alone. KTHXBAI Exactly, could you imagine some guy in his mom's basement telling your girlfriend or boyfriend that he or she is not performing. That is how this sounds. I raided hardcore and we never turned away people for this reason. Others make up for any one person that is not perfect instead of kicking them to the curb. Edited March 7, 2012 by Dawgtide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 it'll be their problem when they stop receiving my money. And i dont think they fully understand the issue. Given that you are already unhappy with their choices and you don't even believe that they are capable of understanding an issue that you are clearly passionate about you aren't doing yourself a service by continuing to pay them. Move on and speak with your cash if that is your intent but don't try to force the rest of us (or BW) to conform to your world view so they can keep your $15/mo. The poll pretty clearly shows which side of the issue you fall on and it is the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Exactly. It's such a small (yet absolutely pivotal and essential) tool, it comes with the basic package of EVERY MMO ever released since Everquest. Even the worst, most bug ridden, half-ready and broken launched games had a fully functional combat log included. That's not the worst part though. The really bad part is Bioware saying "combat logs are coming" and then what is coming is not a combat log at all, not even remotely. Hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 it'll be their problem when they stop receiving my money. And i dont think they fully understand the issue. Not if 50 other people stay because they are not be ragged on about their build/DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Curious the page tells me I already voted and I've never been to it before. Add another vote to the "No - the way they're going about it is fine" numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Curious the page tells me I already voted and I've never been to it before. Add another vote to the "No - the way they're going about it is fine" numbers. Use this link: http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b OP link the wrong page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WereMops Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Curious the page tells me I already voted and I've never been to it before. Add another vote to the "No - the way they're going about it is fine" numbers. http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b correct link, the OP made a mistake when he posted the poll and posted the results/already answered link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Given that you are already unhappy with their choices and you don't even believe that they are capable of understanding an issue that you are clearly passionate about you aren't doing yourself a service by continuing to pay them. Move on and speak with your cash if that is your intent but don't try to force the rest of us (or BW) to conform to your world view so they can keep your $15/mo. The poll pretty clearly shows which side of the issue you fall on and it is the minority. The poll pretty clearly isn't working. Many people in this thread are saying that the poll says they already voted. Happened to me to. Go figure, general discussion poll is unreliable. There are enough positive things in this game to keep me playing atm. What i'd like to see is the time ive invested lvling my char to 50 be worth something through continued end-game play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropicus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Says I've already voted, which I haven't. Id like a log in game even if it's close to wow and non spam able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caladax Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Not if 50 other people stay because they are not be ragged on about their build/DPS. When those people eventually try to do ops, and hit enrage timers, and have no way of knowing who's the low dps, and wipe until they quit doing ops, but don't have much else to do in game, they may not stick around. Meters aren't just for elite hardcore raiders. Everyone hits enrages, and everyone's play can be improved by having information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 No thanks No need for combat logs If the MMO impaired need that to be successful, make a nerf server for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The poll pretty clearly isn't working. Many people in this thread are saying that the poll says they already voted. Happened to me to. Go figure, general discussion poll is unreliable. There are enough positive things in this game to keep me playing atm. What i'd like to see is the time ive invested lvling my char to 50 be worth something through continued end-game play. I do see the people complaining that is says they already voted and a lot of those (I would say the majority if you go back and check) are also in the No column - so it would only skew it more that direction. Also - there is a link that does work if you look up this page a bit and you can vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollodorus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Due to the biased nature of the OP this is really a "Petition", not a "Poll"...which is fine. No problems with that. However, I don't see the need for Epeen-meters "in-game". If you want to improve your game (and I approve of doing so) then having them "out-of-game" will serve your purpose just fine. If you want to brag, or worse, put down those lower on the meter, then I think there are other games out there for you. By all measures, SWTOR is NOT hardcore raiding. So FWIW my vote is NO. Just my 2 cents. Troll away. (Edit: Threat meters could be useful. Not critical, but useful. I have no objection to them.) Edited March 7, 2012 by Apollodorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Hyperbole. It's only hyperbole for people who are not really into MMO's. Believe it or not, there is a reason no MMO ever launched without a combat log, ever since 1999. Yes that's the decade before the last one. And I think that might be the problem with this game: Too few mmo veterans playing this game to call the dev team out on all the ******** they make the players put up with. I guess in the end the game will end up with the community it deserves and vice versa (can it really get worse than it already is? just watch) Edited March 7, 2012 by mufutiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) When those people eventually try to do ops, and hit enrage timers, and have no way of knowing who's the low dps, and wipe until they quit doing ops, but don't have much else to do in game, they may not stick around. Meters aren't just for elite hardcore raiders. Everyone hits enrages, and everyone's play can be improved by having information. And when the raid is over and as a raid leader I parse all the players combat logs and see who is low, I'll have our resident class leader help them figure out what there doing wrong. Problem solved. I don't need to do that on the fly during a raid when I'm already expecting all my people to be doing there best and as far as someone not doing enough DPS. In SWTOR if we're hitting enrage times it's cause someone died early, not cause they didn't have there rotation together. Edited March 7, 2012 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I do see the people complaining that is says they already voted and a lot of those (I would say the majority if you go back and check) are also in the No column - so it would only skew it more that direction. Also - there is a link that does work if you look up this page a bit and you can vote. It's funny how you are trying to argue with clearly unreliable data (the poll) which is endorsing the position of people who are against using in-game data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 When those people eventually try to do ops, and hit enrage timers, and have no way of knowing who's the low dps, and wipe until they quit doing ops, but don't have much else to do in game, they may not stick around. Meters aren't just for elite hardcore raiders. Everyone hits enrages, and everyone's play can be improved by having information. So how are people finishing OPs now if this is needed? Again, I am not against it but at this stage it is not required to complete any content. I was merely pointing out, Bioware has to balance what everyone wants. So in my example if 50 people were going to leave if real time logs were introduced but only one would leave if they weren't, it is pretty clear which way they should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colow_Leper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 As I put in another thread.... I've seen it in guild - and I've seen it in pugs. In guild (mostly because I was in a guild of older players) the conversation between fights would along the lines of "try casting X just before casting Y - then you can cast Z as an instant to really help the damage" - useful stuff. In pugs it tended to be more along the lines of "OMG U SUCK - L2P N00B!" (my favourite time for that was when the idiot screaming abuse was promtly kicked from the group - and we happily continued - the poor mage with us - who had only just got to 70th - was in a right state for a while afterwards - although we were all subjected to obnoxious rants through whisper for a while afterwards - ah the joys of "ignore"). So - assuming that there will *always* be some people like that around, I would suggest that the personal only numbers are the way to go. Edit. I've just thought of a (small) counter argument - running UBRS as a paladin, one of the other characters started screaming that the paladins should be helping out with healing.... until it was pointed out that not only had my character been keeping up with damage (gotta love consecrate when inflicting damage in iddy biddy spiders) but had healed more that the off healer had done. On that one occasion it actually helped - in that it could prove how much healing/damage was being done - but that was once in 6+ years. So - no, I don't want them - it'll just encourage the epeen l33t idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's only hyperbole for people who are not really into MMO's. Believe it or not, there is a reason no MMO ever launched without a combat log, ever since 1999. Yes that's the decade before the last one. And I think that might be the problem with this game: Too few mmo veterans playing this game to call the dev team on all the ******** they make the players put up with. I guess in the end the game will end up with the community it deserves and vice versa (can it really get worse than it already is? just watch) Meh, you can complete content and have fun without it - it is not essential by any stretch of the imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's funny how you are trying to argue with clearly unreliable data (the poll) which is endorsing the position of people who are against using in-game data. Not funny - I didn't make the poll but I did vote on it. The bias of the poll creator is the funny part because he is getting the polar opposite of the response he wanted. If you don't want to follow the proper link and vote on the poll to make it reliable I can't make you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yes Implement real combat logs, quit trying to make bad players feel better about themselves while totaly gimping their ability to improve their gameplay. You arent being revolutionary bioware, youre being naive and short sighted. People who cant play their class well will still be singled out except now they will have a much much harder time trying to improve themselves with complicated difficult to use out of game combat logs and parsers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollodorus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Starglide....I think the overall attitude that comes through in your posts is the perfect example of why many people DONT want the logs as you want them. You may claim to use them in a helpful manner, but your tone comes across as though you would be that ops leader reaming players or kicking players that aren't up to "your standards". QFT. If you look throughout this thread, it is mostly people saying NO, a handful saying YES and the OP bashing everyone who says NO. Pretty sad really. A "Poll" this most certainly is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caladax Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 And when the raid is over and as a raid leader I parse all the players combat logs and see who is low, I'll have our resident class leader help them figure out what there doing wrong. Problem solved. I don't need to do that on the fly during a raid when I'm already expecting all my people to be doing there best and as far as someone not doing enough DPS. In SWTOR if we're hitting enrage times it's cause someone died early, not cause they didn't have there rotation together. Maybe all of you are good. I'll say that we've been hitting enrages. Quite a bit actually. We changed our strategy even because of it. Anyways, here's an example where a real time meter would help: you're trying a new guy, he's a bit undergeared, and you have a regular player sitting outside the raid in case the guy can't pull his weight. You hit the enrage, check the meter, and see either that he's doing his part, or he isn't. Maybe he's doing more than one of your regulars in better gear. Without real time meters, you might boot the new guy and bring in your standby player, only to realize your mistake at the end of the night. Information should not be something that people are opposed to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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