The Forgotten Playerbase: Where are my macros?

[Icebaron]

What baffles me, it seems to be the same people saying they need some automation of their abilities, but also complain end game raids are to easy...

 

I don't see how you made that connection. I assume you just assumed it. So we are both assuming stuff now.

[Phaedrynn]

As someone who played WoW for years with a ton of macros and third party ui mods, I can honestly say I am rather happy that neither exists in SWTOR. This game doesn't need either of those things and plays just fine without them.

[Sparklehorse]

As someone who played WoW for years with a ton of macros and third party ui mods, I can honestly say I am rather happy that neither exists in SWTOR. This game doesn't need either of those things and plays just fine without them.

 

Color me in this boat as well. I actually like not having to fool with all of that nonsense.

[Pekish]

I dont feel the word "NEED" is the one we should use....

 

the game may or maynot use them it's a CHOICE of whoever make teh rule. End of story

 

Macro are not evil or saint they are not needed or ruin everything they are one of the things that "Can be" in game if the rule allow them

 

What's wrong with people and RULE nowday?

[Andryah]

TL;DR - Very disappointed at BW's decision not to include macros in the game to avoid adding "an extra layer of complexity onto the gameplay."

 

You were not forgotten, your demand was evaluated and rejected because they don't want combat to become spastic hyper button mashing by gerbils on speed.

 

I agree with their decision to not have combat marcos.

 

Besides the gerbils can get a g13 keypad from Amazon and go about their gerbilization of the game experience and nobody can stop them. Though they cannot make conditional combat selections or loops based on what is happening in game, which is a good thing.

 

Bioware refusing to add combat macros in game means they do not condone it and therefore do not have to support it, or anybodies hardware macro over-rides.

 

They did the right thing. You have technology workarounds available to you. You can use them 'as is" with no support from Bioware.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Andryah

[Frostvein]

There is just so much misunderstanding of macros in this thread alone its making me sad.

 

Do people not read anymore?

 

 

Good post OP, I'll continue to use my Keyboard/Mouse macros and I feel bad for those who legitimately can't afford or justify spending the money on them (which was me until recently)

 

Cause really, hitting [hotkey:target companion] and then hitting [hotkey:Force Armor] is much more skilled and takes way more ability then hitting a macro that does the exact same thing.

[Obi-Shinobi]

Macros are for lazy people

[Sparklehorse]

Oh and one other thing.

 

How is this the "forgotten playerbase?"

 

We've been hearing this noise since before release. It is impossible to ignore, literally.

 

Bioware has addressed the issue several times since launch (although never as definitively as in the summit) and don't seem very interested in implementing macros anytime soon.

 

This isn't ignoring or forgetting so much as it is denying.

 

People said "give us macros," Bioware said "Nope, not now, don't hold your breath."

[Apocalypsezero]

We as humans are supposedly the pinnacle of evolution, this came about from being able to adapt. What happened to adapting?

[Smitar]

So your theory is they wont give us macro's so that we go buy the Razer/TOR products so that we can macro.

 

You have a very cynical view, most of the good keyboards these days are macroable, not just the TOR related ones, and they are also far less expensive options out there.

 

That's not cynical, that's realistic. Refusing to include macros in the game while simultaneously marketing an expensive hardware solution is just mealy-mouthed hypocrisy.

[Sparklehorse]

Cause really, hitting [hotkey:target companion] and then hitting [hotkey:Force Armor] is much more skilled and takes way more ability then hitting a macro that does the exact same thing.

 

 

Well technically...

 

 

That's not cynical, that's realistic. Refusing to include macros in the game while simultaneously marketing an expensive hardware solution is just mealy-mouthed hypocrisy.

 

Except it isn't being marketed as a replacement solution for macros. People are choosing to use it as such.

 

There are a myriad of optional choices one can make and the kb/mouse being marketed with the SWTOR paint job aren't even the best on the market. There are also many other choices that are much cheaper.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Sparklehorse

[lollermittens]

I have a Razr keyboard and Logitech GS500. My hardware is fine as it is. That's not the issue nor is the problem. That's not the point I'm making either, so let me re-iterate: macros, not scripting, are necessary in any MMO. Even BW will be including macros to make life easier for healers (for some reason, as their job wasn't easy enough already) but no macros for the rest of the classes?

 

So whose at fault here? A game developer that went ahead and created a game in which every class's rotation can be inputted into one macro (highly unlikely to be honest, but keep thinking those "I-WIN" buttons are the norm and that everybody will have one if macros are released) or paying customers who are asking for a functionality that would improve their in-game "quality of life" drastically.

 

What BW doesn't want, and it's obvious, is that they release macros and they become so efficient and so good, that it becomes a necessity to play with macros. They're scared to alienate their casual base, or in my opinion, players who are scared of anything remotely technical. That's too big of a risk to take and given that this game is heavily focused towards carebears (44 PvP servers versus almost 80 PvE servers is the only proof necessary), it's just not going to happen.

 

From a business perspective, this makes complete sense: don't shake up any gameplay element which could alienate your biggest customer base. From a gamer's perspective, this decision just shows bad faith and provides little hope for future improvements and innovations to come into the game.

[Sparklehorse]

 

From a business perspective, this makes complete sense: don't shake up any gameplay element which could alienate your biggest customer base. From a gamer's perspective, this decision just shows bad faith and provides little hope for future improvements and innovations to come into the game.

 

Really? So their choice to not include macros is proof that there is little hope for future improvements and innovations? I'd like you to expound upon this.

 

Also you say from a gamers perspective when I think you meant to say "from my perspective" as we can safely assume that everyone posting here considers themselves a gamer and it's pretty obvious many of us don't agree with your premise.

[kjryx]

The lack of macro's is odd. I can understand, on some level, not allowing really detailed macro'ing like some MMO's do...but none at all is odd.

 

For CC'ing, a simple macro that's something like "Taking %t out of the picture" then casting you CC on one button is hardly a game changers, or letting the game play it for you.

 

I won't lie, I wouldn't be opposed to having more conditional macro support. It's handy in games that allow it. But even a macro system that allows flavor text plus casting one ability would be a huge improvement over nothing.

[Mashy]

I am glad that Bioware took a stand on this. The same people that want these macros are the same content locusts that are complaining that there is nothing to do at 50. GG for not listening to the vocal minority who will only end up ruining this fine game for the rest of us. L2P like everyone else does.

[lollermittens]

Really? So their choice to not include macros is proof that there is little hope for future improvements and innovations? I'd like you to expound upon this.

 

Also you say from a gamers perspective when I think you meant to say "from my perspective" as we can safely assume that everyone posting here considers themselves a gamer and it's pretty obvious many of us don't agree with your premise.

 

Well, think about it for a second, if they aren't willing to include a native functionality such as macros, what makes you think they will provide us with third-party add-ons (besides the combat log)? What makes you think they are going to improve or innovate on any existing MMO functionality when they refuse to provide even the most basic one? What does it tell you about a game that does not have the infrastructure to promote an 8 v 8 premade PvP Warzone? What does this tell you about developers who claim that the GTN is very healthy regardless of whatever anecdotal experience players are relating to them directly and on the forums? What does this tell you about developers who claimed for a long time that population imbalance wasn't as bad as it seems when it's skewed 57% Imperials and 42% Republic?

 

This just does not bode confidence for any MMO gamer who is interested in the long-term future of this game. For me, and I know others feel the same, so far, everything BW has done gives me the "I-can't-wait-until-another-game-comes-out" feeling. My expectations have been consistently unmet and there's only so much I can take.

Edited March 6, 2012 by lollermittens

[Mergon]

Buy a Decent KB and Mouse.

 

TL;DR - there are other ways to skin this cat.

 

/Strike 1

- Why don't YOU buy each of us who want macros but can't afford the hardware one of each? Or talk Bioware into buying them for us?

- Also, many external macro software packages, which is what those pieces of hardware actually use to allow the use of macros, allow for the programming of macros way beyond what most peaple are asking for.

 

I'm not overly for or against macro's myself. I find I have enough hot bars at lvl 50 that I don't overly need more, I use a Logitech G15 Keyboard and a Razer Naga Epic as a mouse so I have lots of keys to bind and my keyboard can support macro's if I wanted to make them.

 

I never really understood the need or want for Macro's, and always had a hard time trying to code them myself. I always found I had enough space and buttons for what I wanted. I was able to perform my tasks easily enough without them.

 

I'm pretty indifferent and don't understand the "IWIN" fear but maybe that's because of my lack of understanding macro's.

 

But since I'm not against them I'll give you a shameless bump so you get more forum reading!

 

Here is another example of what I mentioned above.

Bioware: What are have set up is a game where, in PVP or PvE, those with the cash can buy themselves a major advantage over those of us who can't afford to buy Macro-capable hardware.

 

Of the 12 friends who bought SW:ToR when I did only 1 continued to renew after giving BW 2 months to get their act together. That 1 informed me he is not renewing when his account runs out on the 24th of March.

 

I want to give BW the chance to get the 1.2 patch out to see if it draws people back in to the game.

 

This information that BW is NOT going to be introducing macros is a Strike against my renewing my account after the 1.2 patch. Unless 1.2 is going to include a major upgrade to the healer's UI which enables mouse-overs and mouse-click binds for healing abilities, odds are anything else in going to be merely frosting on a rotted cake.

 

Bioware, after reading more postings in this topic, I've grown even more disgusted with the player populations. If these people are truly against macros, I highly recommend that you implement a software lock of some type that disables all externally implemented macros period.

 

I just got the Bioware eMail asking us to send out 7 day trials for SW:ToR. I was happily goign to do so to a couple of frinds who had NOT bought the game and to my niece. Now, I am not. I'm also going to recommend to those friends who have not renewed their accounts that they not do so until we see if 1.2 is actually really worth it.

 

Just finished skimming the rest of this topic, and I am now thoroughly disgusted. From what I've read, pretty well everyone who is against combat macros, either uses or recommends the use of keyboard or mouse macros externally. I have not seen this big a bunch of hypocrites outside of the WoW forums.

 

Bioware, feel free to ban me from the forums if you want, but odds are I'm cancelling my account anyways now.

 

I no longer see any server populations higher than Standard. When I log in to kathol Rift server where I tend to play, I never see more than50 players on Fleet. I never see more than 30-40 players on a given planet any more.

 

I have 1 L50 Jedi Sage (Healer) which without the use of macros I find to be un-enjoyable to play. It's next to impossible to find even 4-man groups anymore, either for heroics or Flashpoints. Endlessly repeating dailies gets boring very, very fast.

 

And now you are catering to a minority, as represents by a few guilds from across all servers, who express a negative reaction to macros. You are going to end up with with servers that are populated only by 1-2 guilds and that's all. It's already headed that way from what I am seeing on Kathol Rift.

 

[Grotpar]

Macros would be nice.

 

I barely used them in WoW, but they were extremely useful for focus targetting and i.w.i.n buttons(popping CDs + trinkets with one button.)

[lollermittens]

Macros would be nice.

 

I barely used them in WoW, but they were extremely useful for focus targetting and i.w.i.n buttons(popping CDs + trinkets with one button.)

 

Yes, thank you. At the very least that's what we're requesting:

- Focus/targetting macros

- I-WIN macro (Popping CDs + Trinket)

 

I'm sure that if BW gave us those functionalities, the game balance would be completely broken and they'd have to go back to the drawing board for all classes.

[lollermittens]

/Strike 1

- Why don't YOU buy each of us who want macros but can't afford the hardware one of each? Or talk Bioware into buying them for us?

- Also, many external macro software packages, which is what those pieces of hardware actually use to allow the use of macros, allow for the programming of macros way beyond what most peaple are asking for.

 

 

 

Here is another example of what I mentioned above.

Bioware: What are have set up is a game where, in PVP or PvE, those with the cash can buy themselves a major advantage over those of us who can't afford to buy Macro-capable hardware.

 

Of the 12 friends who bought SW:ToR when I did only 1 continued to renew after giving BW 2 months to get their act together. That 1 informed me he is not renewing when his account runs out on the 24th of March.

 

I want to give BW the chance to get the 1.2 patch out to see if it draws people back in to the game.

 

This information that BW is NOT going to be introducing macros is a Strike against my renewing my account after the 1.2 patch. Unless 1.2 is going to include a major upgrade to the healer's UI which enables mouse-overs and mouse-click binds for healing abilities, odds are anything else in going to be merely frosting on a rotted cake.

 

Bioware, after reading more postings in this topic, I've grown even more disgusted with the player populations. If these people are truly against macros, I highly recommend that you implement a software lock of some type that disables all externally implemented macros period.

 

I just got the Bioware eMail asking us to send out 7 day trials for SW:ToR. I was happily goign to do so to a couple of frinds who had NOT bought the game and to my niece. Now, I am not. I'm also going to recommend to those friends who have not renewed their accounts that they not do so until we see if 1.2 is actually really worth it.

 

Just finished skimming the rest of this topic, and I am now thoroughly disgusted. From what I've read, pretty well everyone who is against combat macros, either uses or recommends the use of keyboard or mouse macros externally. I have not seen this big a bunch of hypocrites outside of the WoW forums.

 

Bioware, feel free to ban me from the forums if you want, but odds are I'm cancelling my account anyways now.

 

I no longer see any server populations higher than Standard. When I log in to kathol Rift server where I tend to play, I never see more than50 players on Fleet. I never see more than 30-40 players on a given planet any more.

 

I have 1 L50 Jedi Sage (Healer) which without the use of macros I find to be un-enjoyable to play. It's next to impossible to find even 4-man groups anymore, either for heroics or Flashpoints. Endlessly repeating dailies gets boring very, very fast.

 

And now you are catering to a minority, as represents by a few guilds from across all servers, who express a negative reaction to macros. You are going to end up with with servers that are populated only by 1-2 guilds and that's all. It's already headed that way from what I am seeing on Kathol Rift.

 

 

BAM.

 

That part in bold is why all those folks who came and said: "Well, simply buy better hardware which enable macro functionality!" have absolutely no say in this topic. You are technically cheating by using third-party software to let you play for you!

 

See what I'm doing there? How easy it is to spin the need-for-macros vs. no-need-for-macros debate?

[Pekish]

it's a rule why can't u just accept the rule for what it is?

 

do you want people to walk around in basket game without bouncing the ball because it's easier? Or just bouncing one every 5step instead

 

it's a rule it makes the game more "difficult" more intresting more skillfull... remove the need for a player to get good in select "manually" the skill and the CD and u are making the game just plain stupid, that a monkey can play. (and honestlya monkey already could play this game sucessfully let's not water it down even more)

 

it's a rule u have serious problem understanding the concpet of "game" it is not i do *** i want

Edited March 6, 2012 by Pekish

[ferroz]

Those "I-Win" macros were present in both Rift and WoW. The minority of players used them. And to be completely honest, not many builds benefit from putting your entire rotation into one macro. For PvE purposes, if you're static and standing in one spot and spamming the same ability (*cough*BH/Troopers/Sorcs*cough*), I can see yourself creating an "I-Win" macro, but you'd still need to have your abilities displayed on your hotbar to see which are on cooldown and which are not.

 

I thought that his answer was just dodging the real question which was: "Why would you guys not include even the most basic form of macro-creation available?" And they never answered that.

They're present in rift*, but certainly not in wow. Wow doesn't allow you to set priorities on abilities; while it's powerful (because a key can do different things based on your target type) it doesn't allow one butt "I-win" macros like the cleric macros in rift did*

 

*I can't say whether they still do or not in rift, as I stopped playing quite a while back.

[Icebaron]

it's a rule why can't u just accept the rule for what it is?

 

do you want people to walk around in basket game without bouncing the ball because it's easier? Or just bouncing one every 5step instead

 

 

it's a rule u have serious problem understanding the concpet of "game" it is not i do *** i want

 

You keep spouting this rules nonsense and fail to realize the ENTIRE point of the complaints is to change the rule. Everyone here knows what the rule is.

[lollermittens]

They're present in rift*, but certainly not in wow. Wow doesn't allow you to set priorities on abilities; while it's powerful (because a key can do different things based on your target type) it doesn't allow one butt "I-win" macros like the cleric macros in rift did*

 

*I can't say whether they still do or not in rift, as I stopped playing quite a while back.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Been almost 3 years since I played WoW so I had forgotten whether or not you could set priorities for your abilities... I believe you could in a "ghetto" way by setting your abilities in a specific order and having /stopcast after every ability call -- I'm still talking about WoW.

 

But in Rift, you were absolutely correct. My Thief which was the build that had to do with explosives was using a 1 to 2 macro rotation -- I mean, the class was based around 4 skills, might as well reduced them into 2 macros. Did it break the game, make it unbalance, and create all sorts of confusion? Absolutely not. Those who didn't like macros didn't use them and those who did enjoyed more creative and specific talent builds. How is that a bad thing?

[Vlaxitov]

TL;DR - Very disappointed at BW's decision not to include macros in the game to avoid adding "an extra layer of complexity onto the gameplay."

 

Rift had one of the best in game macro systems I've ever seen in a mmo and all I ever did in that game was 111211131114111211141112.

 

Its more like adding an extra layer of simplicity onto the gameplay and part of the reason I don't play Rift anymore.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Vlaxitov