Humanbeam Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) While I agree that my information doesn't account for higher level gameplay, people have stuns, interrupts and knockbacks at all levels of pvp. I have been interuppted and stunned as has everyone. When I target someone and they interrupt I just use the other abilities I have for 4 seconds and then go right back to grav spam. I'm not sure what the second skill is, but demo charge is only going to make the class better, not worse. I have seen level 50 brackets where this class is on top, and if not is following a Sage or Sorcerer which is what made me do this non-sense to start with. Unload/Full Auto is the second skill. There's a talent on top of the tree that gives grav round a 30% chance to increase full auto's damage by 25%. So the rotation goes as following: 3xGrav Round 1x Demolition Round 1xFull auto( it normally procs on the first grav round) 1x Railshot( Commando version) Not op at all at the 50 bracket. Very easy to kill matter of fact. Edited March 5, 2012 by Humanbeam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izini Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 People are still crying about grav/tracer... if you can't stop a grav/tracer spammer then you need to look at what you're doing becuase they are cake. I have a commando and the dps does not come from grav round, it comes from Demo Round, HIB, and Full Auto. A few Gravs just make those moves stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The change in red was my old suggestion before I hit BM and got well geared. On similarly geared targets my HiB is critting for 3.2-3.5k and the demo can get anywhere up to 4k crit on 500+ expertise opponents. While decreasing the grav/tracer would make some people happy it wouldn't be global. I use grav/tracer as a set-up spell and not a kill spell (as it's not meant to spam). Having my instants hit for more would make me god mode even if you cut traver/grav in half. There isn't anything truly wrong with the class. It's meant to be a glass cannon and if they aren't interrupted let them burn. Glass Cannons do not run around in heavy armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooto Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I play about 3 months as Commando, so i encourage all qq`ers to join an easy mode club. I use just 1 skill, no matter its ranged or melee situation. I kill everyone very easy, 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 is a joke. Most easy dieing targets for me are maradeur & operatives, most hard is merc . Stop qq`ing and join an easy mode! Edited March 5, 2012 by Kooto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSwab Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm not sure what their role would be if they weren't planted on a corner in huttball spamming tracer missile. Has anyone seen one doing anything else? Did you screen shot it from multiple angles? I think such photographic evidence of them doing anything else is probably more rare than the routine pictures of the Loch Ness Monster that tip up every few years. I'll usually interrupt, grab the ball, and pass it, then maybe restealth and knife them just to give them the opportunity to mash a different button. Hate for them to get bored and log. Tip: if you throw an enemy tracermissile turret the ball, you can sometimes get your team to focus fire them down. Try it sometime, and give that turret something exciting to do! (caveat: this is really, really terrible strategy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnemicBoy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Changes won't happen. Want to know why? 1) We don't have any interrupts. 2) We don't have any speed increasing abilities. 3) We don't have any leaping abilities. 4) We don't have a push/pull ability. 4) We don't have a shield of high damage decreasing ability. We have a shield that reduces 25% of incoming damage for 12 seconds but trust me, it doesn't do much & has a very long cooldown. So if you take away our MAIN damage setup ability, we will be even worse in PvP than we already are. Trust me, being a near BM gunnery commando, we are laughably easy to take down. Our high armor is just a stat of a few hundred extra points as it does near nothing to reduce much of the damage we received compared to lower armor tiers. Unlike a tanking class where the difference is noticeable. Sith Sorcerers & Jedi Sages are in much more need of nerfing across the board before even thinking about making changes to Grav Round or Tracer Missile. If they do makes changes, I & many other Gunnery Commandos & Mercnary Arsenals will expect, if not, demand boost in all of our other abilities to make up for the lose. -LatinLegacy Don't be so sure. Most the reasons you listed off are applicable to Operatives as well, but look at where they are now. As a healer, there isn't much I can do against Grav/Tracer spam. I don't have the DPS to take down the target, so it's really just a matter of heal through or run away. Grav/Tracer is one of the few spammable things that I can't just heal through. They hit about as hard as my best heal and cast faster. My best bet is to cleanse/vanish or try to use terrain to break LoS. There are several times where breaking LoS doesn't work well though. Either I'm dead before I can run to that point (I don't get a speed ability after all), or the person is smart enough to follow me and continue spamming. It's pretty much instant win against a new PvPer, but even for those that know what they are doing it can still be a huge issue if you aren't the right class/spec. Edited March 5, 2012 by AnemicBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatermitts Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 TLDR however your dmg output is wrong, my gunnery commando hits for 1,5-2k and crits for 3-3,8 (48% crit chance there) goes up with relics and adrenals, biggest hit was recently someting sligtly over 6k with demo round 5k is common when it crits thats why ppl crying its op ofc, unless you gear it, your gonna be pathetic dps and be writing posts like this What's your level and gear? Also, even if my numbers are wrong I am still managing to out dps everyone, kill people quickly and still help with objectives. I said at the start of the post that I could be wrong and to give me some slack, and that I am looking for conversation about what I've posted not being told that I am wrong, need to l2p, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warultima Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I play about 3 months as Commando, so i encourage all qq`ers to join an easy mode club. I use just 1 skill, no matter its ranged or melee situation. I kill everyone very easy, 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 is a joke. Most easy dieing targets for me are maradeur & operatives, most hard is merc . Stop qq`ing and join an easy mode! Level 49 Merc here, very fun to play in PvP, dont know how newbs can lose to a sage as Tracer/Heal dual spec Merc in 1v1 tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlah Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Changes won't happen. Want to know why? 1) We don't have any interrupts. 2) We don't have any speed increasing abilities. 3) We don't have any leaping abilities. 4) We don't have a push/pull ability. 5) We have to STAND STILL for 80% of our abilities. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been stunned, knocked down, pulled etc because I can not be mobile & unload heavy damage. 6) We don't have a shield of high damage decreasing ability. We have a shield that reduces 25% of incoming damage for 12 seconds but trust me, it doesn't do much & has a very long cooldown. So if you take away our MAIN damage setup ability, we will be even worse in PvP than we already are. Trust me, being a near BM gunnery commando, we are laughably easy to take down. Our high armor is just a stat of a few hundred extra points as it does near nothing to reduce much of the damage we received compared to lower armor tiers. Unlike a tanking class where the difference is noticeable. Sith Sorcerers & Jedi Sages are in much more need of nerfing across the board before even thinking about making changes to Grav Round or Tracer Missile. If they do makes changes, I & many other Gunnery Commandos & Mercnary Arsenals will expect, if not, demand boost in all of our other abilities to make up for the lose. -LatinLegacy This plus we don't have a dot or a offensive snare to stop people just running away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogzLife Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Theres many ways to fix the most faceroll class in game Merc/Commandos. One I can think of will be lowering tracer's damage and/or raising the casting cost and buff the other skills where when a proper rotation is preformed the overall dps is remain the same with other skills that combos after tracer cost lowered as well. Currently any noob knows garv/tracer is completely faceroll to the max thats unmatched by any other classes. This change will emphasize the "rotation" aspect within Merc so they are more inline to other classes. This suggestion was the only one worth any merit, reducing damage of tracer by a small amount (~10%) while buffing heatseeker (~30%) to try to offset some of the damage. The only problem with this is then you will get people crying about how heatseeker is hitting people for 10k. If you argue to not buff heatseek as much but to also buff the other skills, such as unload and rail shot, you just boosted up other specs by a significant amount, such as Pyros. One change causes multiple effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) How about this, since none of the whiners know how to beat it let's explain how. I'm playing an Iron Fist Powertech so I'll use that example, so called inferior melee and a so called OP class. Ok you see a big blue ribbon or a merc bent over like he were in prison... Jet charge, interrupts the grav/tracer they were spamming and they are rooted, nail them with rocket punch. They hit knockback, I don't care and hit them with railshot and maybe a an unload (situational). Grapple, again interrupts their cast, roots them for another 3 sec, and I do some wailing on them. No more kb, they try to kite or stand and fire. If they stand their ground then interrupt with quell and its down for a bit extra. If they try kiting still have a stun to use. By that point you are going to have complete domination and be just short of a kill. No there is a lot of controlled going on there. But there are plenty of classes with that control and its the gunnery/arsenal builds weakness. Gender not being OPed. Edited March 5, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slackfumasta Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Sounds really mad, umadbro? Not at all, I really enjoy playing my sage. I also enjoy the sages/sorcs on this forum who are insisting over and over that they take so much skill to play and are not OP at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 This is thread started by sages for sages...to detract attention from themselves....not gonna work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatermitts Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Unload/Full Auto is the second skill. There's a talent on top of the tree that gives grav round a 30% chance to increase full auto's damage by 25%. So the rotation goes as following: 3xGrav Round 1x Demolition Round 1xFull auto( it normally procs on the first grav round) 1x Railshot( Commando version) Not op at all at the 50 bracket. Very easy to kill matter of fact. Yeah, good call. I'm not missing Full Auto I just don't have the talents that make it better. I use it now when I get interrupted or I have full stacks of grav-vortex. I also don't have the talent that adds more stacks per shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatermitts Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 This is thread started by sages for sages...to detract attention from themselves....not gonna work My main is a gunslinger. While I don't have much of an issue with spammers personally, I see them all the time in PVP and saw a lot of whining here on the forums. This post is just a reaction to having grav-spammed for a few pvps and seeing how awesomely effective it is with just 4 buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lijahrobinson Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Keep them the way they are. Otherwise it would feel like getting in a fight with a 5 year old girl. They are easy enough to kill as it is. I play a pyrotech Mercenary and i kill arsenals all day long. If you are getting destroyed by arsenals then you have no idea how to play against them. If no one is focusing on them, and they are free to do what they want, then yes they can put out some damage. Be proactive. Knock them off catwalks. Kill them, they are pretty horrid 1 vs 1. Use line of sight. Just, for the love of god, don't stand in the center of huttball while there is one on the catwalks and then complain when you get destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Morholt_ Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 If you die to tracer missile spam, you are BAD. Learn to CC, pop defensive CD, or simply walk out of range. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niconogood Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Mercs/Commandos are pretty much free kills to anyone with half a brain. If you let him stand and spam on you for 10 sec plus without countering it or LoSing, of course you will die. But the same would against any other class in the game. Gunslingers do just as much damage, if not more, yet they are considered one of the weakest in PvP. Gunslingers also have more damagemitigation with 20% cover + 20% scramble field than commandos. Heavy armor only gives 5% more mitigation than medium. They also have more utility with more stuns AND they got interrupt. So a class i OP because its considered "easy" to play? Explain why you think its OP, and we can discuss the specifics in how it is OP in comparison to other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatermitts Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 If you die to tracer missile spam, you are BAD. Learn to CC, pop defensive CD, or simply walk out of range. Problem solved. I can see what you're saying, but I don't think it's completely accurate. One does not simply walk out of range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slackfumasta Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I can see what you're saying, but I don't think it's completely accurate. One does not simply walk out of range. Actually, it happens a lot, especially in huttball. As a commando, if you are not already in the way of the enemy ball carrier, just try to control mid - you aren't going to be worth anything trying to chase him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I can see what you're saying, but I don't think it's completely accurate. One does not simply walk out of range. Since majority of the build require channeling/casting. Yeah it can really be as easy as walking out of range. But it is generally easier to simply LoS them. The build is so insanely easy.to counter I have no idea why people can even think to complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatermitts Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Actually, it happens a lot, especially in huttball. As a commando, if you are not already in the way of the enemy ball carrier, just try to control mid - you aren't going to be worth anything trying to chase him down. When I try to lead Hutt Ball I tell my team to control the middle. I think it is of vital tactical importance to be the controlling presence in mid. Also, that is probably why I'm able to get such high damage with grav spam because I just plant and shoot at who is in range; I never chase unless they are under 500 hp and I can auto shot them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkate Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I play about 3 months as Commando, so i encourage all qq`ers to join an easy mode club. I use just 1 skill, no matter its ranged or melee situation. I kill everyone very easy, 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 is a joke. Most easy dieing targets for me are maradeur & operatives, most hard is merc . Stop qq`ing and join an easy mode! Any person that says they easily beat 3 players is fighting... People that are several levels below them. People that they heavily out-gear. Utter morons. Or they are a liar. ESPECIALLY if they say they do it spamming Tracer Missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Are they too easy to play? Yup. So is sage/sorc. Are they op? Not even close. They are a poor mans sorc/sage. When a sorc/sage specs hybrid? They aren't even that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 They definitely need to do something to the class, but I don't know what they can do now. So many things are tied to Grav/Tracer spam that the class would fall apart if you took it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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