Hate grav/tracer spam? You are the 99%

[Tatermitts]

And...you missed the whole point of the thread. It's about interrupting TM/Grav Round spammers. Nothing else.

 

Hey wait! That's not the point of the thread either!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=343038

[monimoni]

OP: So you got pwned by a commando/bounty hunter, and it left such a deep emotional scar that you had to roll one in order to feel entitled to rage about it?

Interesting.

[Tatermitts]

GM: You flawlessly interrupt the tracer missile cast, the mercenary stands in front of you, utterly shocked. As you move to end his life you hear the crackle of force lightning an instant before the attack hits, searing pain surges through you as your nervous system is instantly overloaded, flooding your brain with discordant signals.

 

Your move speed is now 50% of standard while the merc regains his wits and knocks you away, you are now focused by two players that can keep you snared until you die. GG

 

I like the RP aspect of your post. Really gets me in the action.

[Tatermitts]

OP: So you got pwned by a commando/bounty hunter, and it left such a deep emotional scar that you had to roll one in order to feel entitled to rage about it?

Interesting.

 

No, not quite. If you had a reading comprehension above a 3rd grade level you would have read in the OP that I wanted to see what all the fuss was about on the forum. This post was made to create discussion; it's not my fault that people want to whine about the same stuff that's in 100 other threads. Don't put that on me.

 

As a gunslinger I tend to get "pwned" most by sages and vanguards, or whatever they are called for imperials.

[KorinHyvek]

I think the big problem is in the pre-50 bracket, lower level mercs really do have nothing better to do than spam tracer missiles. Rail shot doesn't actually become cost effective for non-speed kills until you have tracer lock (which is about the time the base damage is also starting to pull ahead). Then you get Riddle and Heatseaker. But for until a merc hits ~level 35, it's tracer spam with the occasional rail shot.

 

 

I don't see the big deal, though. So they're becoming somewhat effective in warzones somewhat faster than other classes. Big Whoop. TRacer Spam is still easy to fight if you know what you're doing.

[Paerin]

Are they? *shrug* I just hear it a lot from sorcs...the whole light armor thing usually makes them QQ about ranged physical damage

 

On my Sorceror if a Mercenary can free cast on me I am just going to die, especially if they start casting on me and I don't immediately see it to try and stop it. With my light armor and their physical damage it is just too much to overcome. However, if I see them casting then it's ridiculously easy to counter and escape.

 

On my Mercenary if I am allowed to free cast on anyone they essentially explode, some quicker than others. Sorcerors by far get hit the hardest because of their armor. Marauders and Operatives take almost as much damage, and tank classes take the least. I can count on 1 hand the number of Sorcerors that actually interrupt me or stun me to break my cast. I get interrupted a lot by the melee classes.

 

I am of a mind to agree with you. The majority of complaints are more than likely from squishy classes who cast lightning bolt with a cast bar. They can't figure out that they have 3 abilities that can interrupt and then cry about it.

[Soulcheg]

Commando is the most defenceless class vs any melee. No interrupts, no force speed, single cryo grenade - and THAT is this topic about? That's just plain stupid. Commando have nothing beside GR, interrupt it and look at helpless class. Edited March 6, 2012 by Soulcheg

[Mannic]

Uthinkso?

Lol

 

Tell me what keys need to be bound on a commando.

Grav

Full auto

auto attack

sticky nade

KB

Trinket

HiB

....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

There isnt realy anything else that NEEDS to be bound, remember that you are attacking from range. You could be a clicker and finish top 3 every match in Hutball and voidstar, there is no need to have them bound.

 

Now Ops and sentinels on the other hand have builders and situational skills that need to be hit in the correct order during the heat of frenzied melee. They NEED to have EVERY skill bound or they will die and die and die.

 

I could easily top a Hutball WZ damage chart as a lvl20 Grav spammer without a single key bound... just by clicking. Binding 8 means i can eat and watch TV as i only need one hand

 

First, the fact that you think "most damage" equates to effectiveness in Huttball is merely more proof of how terrible you are. The classes that get the most damage are almost always AoE classes meaning a sizeable portion of their damage is relatively ineffectiual compared to, say, an Operative applying damage to a specific target. Secondly, it's often the stupidest players off ignoring objectives and trying to fight duels who finish with the highest damage numbers, but it doesn't mean their damage did a damned thing to help the team win. And finally, it is frequently the players near the bottom of the list at the end of a Huttball match who did the bulk of the ball-carrying, CC, pulling, and path-clearing in order to help the team win. So, please... learn to play and stop measuring your e-peen by a stat that can easily be attained by anyone who only wants to concentrate on putting up the biggest number possible. The players who are truly good may glance at their damage numbers at the end of a match, but the only stat that really matters is the Win column.

 

If you are mouse-clicking even a single ability that would best be accessed with a memorized hotkey in the heat of battle, you're bad. It's in the same category as keyboard turning and backpedalling. The people who do it always think they are uber despite this fundamental flaw in their play, yet actual good players know differently.

 

I play a Merc--mostly Pyro, but when I have played Arsenal, my skill list consisted of:

 

Rapid Shots - You need auto-attack when overheated

 

Incendiary Missile - Use on targets heading towards a pack of teammates. Also places a nice high-damage DOT on your focus target.

 

Explosive Dart - Same as above, also; use on stealthers for a surprise if they like to vanish.

 

Tracer Missile

 

Death from Above

 

Railshot

 

Vent Heat

 

Electro Dart - Your only stun that doesn't break on damage.

 

Energy Shield

 

Determination

 

Unload - The slowing effect is just too good not to use it when it's up, plus it hits pretty damned hard when spec'd into Arsenal.

 

Cure: Yes, you can cleanse **** off yourself!

 

Kiolto Overload - Self heals are good! It's instant cast! Use it!

 

 

 

Heatseeker Missiles: instant-cast finisher. Instant cast. Combine it with Railshot for real burst.

 

Concussion Missile- Use it on a character heading towards battle, or that annoying healer. A long duration stun that's useable on players who are in combat. Yeah, it's that good.

 

Sweeping Blasters - It's often the only AoE you have left to use to interrupt when enemies try to cap objectives. It's just as good as Death from Above as a pure "cap interrupt."

 

Stealth Scan- One of the most underused abilities in the game. If you are quick with it, you can keep stealthers from escaping combat with vanish, and it's always helpful for defending objectives from ninjas.

 

Jet blast- You need to for self-defense and to be useful in Huttball.

 

Two self-heals - Because sometimes you die waiting to get out of combat so you can Recharge & Reload, but if you self-heal, you don't die!

 

Rocket Punch- Good, hard-hitting instant ability for when you find yourself in melee range that also knocks people back.

 

Then you have an ability that makes your next ability instant (handy for getting off a quick concussion missile, incendiary, or heal, and another that makes your next ability cost no heat, also handy in tight spots.

 

This of course, doesn't include your two relics, adrenals, medpacks, etc.

 

That's what? 26 (more if you include adrenals and medpacks) hotkeys just off the top of my head, without actually looking at my character's UI. If you're not using them all, your character is not being used to it's fullest. If you're not using more than 8 hotkeys, you're terrible.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Mannic

[germil]

Yeah I have maybe 30 hotkeys on my merc, an I use all of them in WZ. And one need to use them to optimize its gameplay and its efficiency with the class.

 

However I can see the problem with grav. It is true the "floor" skill cap is too high with the class/spec. There is not enough DPS difference with someone using only grav and someone using a more complex rotation. I often play hybrid (heal/gunnery) and If I focus on DPS (using only grav round), I can reach close to the full gunnery dps.

 

There is a need of a more complex rotation, using secondary ressource managment, which is less reliant on grav. Make the gameplay more interesting. If I play full DPS, I go assault and even if it is maybe a little less efficient (not by much), it is far more fun. Or I play hybrid or full heal which are very fun and interesting because of supercharge cell. There is a probably a need for more usefull PVP tools for full DPS spec aswell.

[ulukinatme]

Unfortunatelly Gunnery Commandoes and Arsenal Mercenaries aren't op at all on level 50 brackets. All classes have interrupts, knockbacks and stuns and they know how to use LoS.

Since you only got to 20ish, your data is pretty useless. YOu are missing 2 more skills on your rotation.

 

This. I destroy Arsenal Mercs and Gunnery Commandos in the 50 bracket with Pyrotech Merc. Pyrotech is superior to Aresenal, at least in the 50s. It gives you more mobility and allows you to kite melee. Lets see a Tracer solo a decent Marauder that knows how to interrupt.

[Sagituro]

who cannot win against it is just stupit as hell u can easyly wipe them if u know how, but tv makes people dumb. maybe you one of those?

[BobaFurz]

Commando is the most defenceless class vs any melee. No interrupts, no force speed, single cryo grenade - and THAT is this topic about? That's just plain stupid. Commando have nothing beside GR, interrupt it and look at helpless class.

 

What about dispelling annihilation dots which are physical dmg with your cure ability, what about the talent which makes you immune to interruption for 12 seconds...?

 

What are you doing when you get interrupted ? What about using your 2nd 1.5 spam ability (i.e. power shot) during the time your TracerMissile/GR is interrupted ?

Edited March 7, 2012 by BobaFurz

[ekwalizer]

There isn't anything truly wrong with the class. It's meant to be a glass cannon and if they aren't interrupted let them burn.

 

Tracer/Grav spamming isnt the way to be most effective, just sayin. It does serve a valuable lesson though to teach noobs how to use interrupts.

 

This and this.

[DarthWalt]

Tracer/Grav spamming isnt the way to be most effective, just sayin. It does serve a valuable lesson though to teach noobs how to use interrupts.

 

Sooooooooooo now we can interupt something with a 1.5sec cast time no cool down from 30m away Ok whos the noob?

 

 

 

Guy rly. get over yourself.

[ekwalizer]

What about dispelling annihilation dots which are physical dmg with your cure ability, what about the talent which makes you immune to interruption for 12 seconds...?

 

What are you doing when you get interrupted ? What about using power shot during the time your GR is interrupted ?

 

OK, what about other classes with say, a jump-to-enemy and a jump-to-friendly? Or an extraction/grapple? Or classes like Knight/Warrior, Agent/Smuggler that have 4 snare/stun/root/mezzes (some being area CC) - many of which are classified as snares and therefore not subject to Resolve?

[BobaFurz]

OK, what about other classes with say, a jump-to-enemy and a jump-to-friendly? Or an extraction/grapple? Or classes like Knight/Warrior, Agent/Smuggler that have 4 snare/stun/root/mezzes (some being area CC) - many of which are classified as snares and therefore not subject to Resolve?

 

Thats a problem, true. But what about the points I was talking about before ?

Edited March 7, 2012 by BobaFurz

[MatchpointServe]

Yet another 18% claiming to represent the 99%.

[Luckorforever]

what about the talent which makes you immune to interruption for 12 seconds...?

 

Its the Healer that has this ability not the Damagedealers..

[BobaFurz]

Its the Healer that has this ability not the Damagedealers..

 

Give up Heatseeker Missile and you have the ability , I understand what you mean.

[Migrayn]

Merc/comm are fine. Tracer/grav is fine.

 

Scoundrels were fine yet they got nerfed to the ground due to perception. Tracer/grave kills faster then intended and many classes cant interupt at 30m so they have defence against it. Having heavy armor and the highest dps is a bad scenario.

 

You have to loose 1 or the other. Or make everyones interupt 30m.

[LatinLegacy]

Scoundrels were fine yet they got nerfed to the ground due to perception. Tracer/grave kills faster then intended and many classes cant interupt at 30m so they have defence against it. Having heavy armor and the highest dps is a bad scenario.

 

You have to loose 1 or the other. Or make everyones interupt 30m.

 

As a gunnery commando, it is not difficult to take us down. In fact, it's a little too easy for every class with the exception of pure healers. 80% of our abilities require us to stand still while half of those abilities require charging to activate. We are easy to spot & take out. Smart players interrupt & use the environment against us as it makes us lose targeting. While we do have range, it is not as far as you think. Quite a few classes have further ranged attacks than we do which is hilarious when you think about it.

 

The Gunnery Commando & Merc Arsenal are heavy dealing specs so we SHOULD be hitting as hard as we do. That's the whole pupose of the tree. What we have in damage, we lack in nearly every other department.

 

1) We don't have any interrupts.

2) We don't have any speed increasing abilities.

3) We don't have any leaping abilities.

4) We don't have a push/pull ability.

5) We can't remove most DoT's placed on us & our Tenacity ability is a 2 minute cooldown. So we are snared/stunned fairly often.

 

Grav Round/Tracer missle is fine. Most of our damage comes from the abilities that require our grav round/tracer missile stack. If you guys want it to be toned down so bad, we're just going to end up re-specing to our other DPS tree which does a whole lot more damage since they are PvP spec trees. Gunnery & Arsenal are meant for PvE .

 

-LatinLegacy

Edited March 7, 2012 by LatinLegacy

[Migrayn]

Fuuny you say no knockbacks. I get knocked back all the time az i try to get close enough to use my melee range interupt. So what hapens is i take several rounds in the face trying to get into interupt range. Then i getknocked back. Then i take more rounds in the face to die.

[wtfnonamefree]

After reading all of the posts about tracer spamming and seeing the activity in PvP, I decided to create a Grav-round commando. His name is IRtrooper. The point of creating the character was to see if spamming was really all it was or if there was some dynamic game play aspect I was missing. Also, I wanted to gauge the effectiveness of spamming.

 

I didn't play a game of PvP until 20 (as to not sully my experience). Since, I have played around 25 rounds of pvp. This has lead to some interesting realizations.

 

So - what insights did that approach yield in regards to lv50 gameplay (you know, the relevant one)? None?

 

Brb, testing the viability of Queen spam in 8piece chess.

[Iram]

As a gunnery commando, it is not difficult to take us down. In fact, it's a little too easy for every class with the exception of pure healers. 80% of our abilities require us to stand still while half of those abilities require charging to activate. We are easy to spot & take out. Smart players interrupt & use the environment against us as it makes us lose targeting. While we do have range, it is not as far as you think. Quite a few classes have further ranged attacks than we do which is hilarious when you think about it.

 

The Gunnery Commando & Merc Arsenal are heavy dealing specs so we SHOULD be hitting as hard as we do. That's the whole pupose of the tree. What we have in damage, we lack in nearly every other department.

 

1) We don't have any interrupts.

2) We don't have any speed increasing abilities.

3) We don't have any leaping abilities.

4) We don't have a push/pull ability.

5) We can't remove most DoT's placed on us & our Tenacity ability is a 2 minute cooldown. So we are snared/stunned fairly often.

 

Grav Round/Tracer missle is fine. Most of our damage comes from the abilities that require our grav round/tracer missile stack. If you guys want it to be toned down so bad, we're just going to end up re-specing to our other DPS tree which does a whole lot more damage since they are PvP spec trees. Gunnery & Arsenal are meant for PvE .

 

-LatinLegacy

 

Number 4 and 5 are wrong.

 

We've got an AOE pushback ("Jet blast" on the BH side) and a single target pushback ("Stock strike" on the trooper side). It's not enough to truely keep a melee character out of range due to the cooldown on Jet blast and the short distance on Stock strike. It's nowhere near as good as the Sage or Vanguard pulls, but it's something.

 

We've got a DoT removal that will work for non-force DoT's. It's called "Field Aid" on the trooper side.

[Iram]

The real problem with the gunnery tree is we don't have much else but tracer missile. If that gets interrupted, most of our other abilities are on cooldown.

- HiB takes 8 seconds

- Demolition Round takes 15 seconds.

- Full Auto takes 15 seconds.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that tracer missile has a 1.5 second cast time. That's 50% longer than the global cooldown.

 

I've got full Tier2 PvP gear on my Trooper, and Grav Round does 1524-1574 damage. That's 1016 to 1049 (1032 average) damage per second. Any DPS-specced 50's from other classes willing to post your numbers for comparison?

 

Even though no one complains about it, Charged Bolts actually deals more damage at 1452 to 1836 with a 1.5 second cast (1096 average) for the same energy cost. Charged Bolts just doesn't trigger any of our other abilities like Grav Round does, so the extra damage isn't really worth it.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Iram