Commando, accept it.

[dejavy]

So, here we are... We got our BM titles, we got geared with full BM sets, made rakata adrenals and medpacks, asked our cybertech friends to make some grenades for us and now we are ready for serious events. Time to rock!

 

Wait a minute, what's going on....? Coming on wz we find out that any same geared marauder, ssin, operative and jugger tears us in pieces as if we're paper dolls no matter what build we have and what tricks and abilities we apply

 

What's the problem?

 

It's not another ordinary whine, not at all. I really want to find out what's up with my favourite range class. My gear and my experience allow me to say i'm not a newbie in PVP and i know what a range class means and i know what penalties it has for possibility to destroy enemies at distance. Also i know that skillful rangers MUST have a single chance against any other class. But why don't i have it being a commando? I fought with my sentinel friend (BM as well) for 20 times i guess. There's no...not even win, but a slight hint on it after all the fights. (was in gunnery build, full BM set except relics)

 

If MOST of you (commandos) confirm the statement "Commando is a stationary thing created for exclusively range combat matters which has NO chance against melees because BW made this class so and you have to accept it as it is and keep playing or leaving the class." I'll accept this. But i still hope there are people who have the other point of view and can disprove the statement and suggest an opposite one.

 

Yes, i have a vanguard (59 valor) as well and he's ok against all classes except marauders and snipers perhaps, i can play it but why must i leave my commando and play vanguard which is half-melee style i don't really like? Well, if it's my commando destiny to lose at melee as it planned so for balance matters, why have they made classes which feel fine at any distance and just can't be kited on practice because they have charges, harpoons, sprints and leaps? Why only playing a commando do i feel a dummy or a paper doll (AS build)?

 

I wish i receive an answer from another BM(!) Commando who's satisfied with the class and can explain a silly me how to love it after another melee **** at WZ.

 

Thanks

Edited March 5, 2012 by dejavy

[homfridus]

Not a strong 1v1 class. You are correct. But with support, we tear **** up. Kinda the idea/play style I was hoping for too when I started my toon. Now I'm at about 1700 aim and %55-65 chance to crit with Grav round and completely destroy

[Zekeiele]

Your kinda doing it wrong..don't take offense but your not meant to take out melee just stop..pick out the "soft" targets and burn them down light and medium armor DPS/Heals are your fodder.

 

Loop around the outside in voidstar target a lighting spammer FA grav grav maybe a lucky CoF proc demo HiB and watch the panic set in as their life bar gets paper thin...pick another softy or someone harrasing your healer or tab for low life bar rinse and repeat.

 

Personally I ignore melee pop shield or CC and keep blasting the softies if I can kill my target before the melee kill me it's a draw and if I've burned a few down before that it's a win.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Zekeiele

[VincentWolf]

I absolutely hate the whole situation that I can't kill an even champ geared marauder/assassin and even some operatives on my almost full BM gunnery commando (also with rakata biochem items), but this is how it is. I tried assault, it's even worse. Yes, granted I get more mobility, but my damage goes so much lower, whole mobility stops making any sense. So I just stick to gunnery, avoid any 1vs1 as much as possible and try to just nuke from afar. That kinda works unless I have some special melee idiot spotting me and targeting me top prio.

Solution? Obvious: make grav round uninterruptible. Will they do it without nerfing our damage? Doubt it.

 

I've started leveling a sentinel on the most populated eu pvp server right now just because I'm frustrated with commando. Guess what, bet they hate us for nuking them from behind the corner, it's somewhat of a relief to know. But yeah, those interrupts are an "iwin" button. This should be stopped.

Edited March 5, 2012 by VincentWolf

[Kmana]

Commandos are completely useless unless heal spec, so learn to beat the **** out of people. Fight with your brain, and don't go off alone. It's a rather simple thing to do, and if you're grav rounding, you have absolutely no right to complain about not winning a 1v1. Assault spec is where it's at. Learn to play it.

 

This is from a BM commando. The class sucks, so be really good at it.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Kmana

[germil]

Well I find the game very balanced in this regard. Anyway, If you like to 1vs1 or walk alone in BGs, full healing or hybrid heal/gunnery are probably a better option. They are among the strongest duel specs in the game (along with other healing specced classes) if you play it safe enough. Basically one dps alone can't kill me, and I still have enough DPS ressource to kill them.

[Zekeiele]

Grav is our best tool...but if you feel like getting interrupted on it makes the class unplayable you need to look deeper into the tool box..My kill count is always top 3-4 and usually 1-2 on MY team..that's our job as gunnery right? Edited March 5, 2012 by Zekeiele

[LordZym]

Sorry but AS is amazing you just don't know how to use it. Your one of those people who is so unskilled you just press 1 button!! Man up get some skill and start some dp s beasting. Support is out primary objective team up with a guardian and bang you munch everyone!

[KaneBlueriver]

Yeah I guess, know your character is the key. I just hold my line and unleash blaster fire. One on one I can hold my own against any class in PVP doesnt matter if they out lvl me. We have our tricks too you know.

 

Just manage your ammo keep them at bay. Use damage reduction and keep blasting away.

remember armor means nothing to AP rounds.

 

And if you crit need to say more?

 

My only problem is if they have assistance.

 

I soo love open world PVP, They cant use Warzone rules there lol

 

/salute

[whataboutbob]

To the OP. I wish I could disagree with you but you're absolutley right. We cant handle 1vs1 combat against melee fighters. They just haven't built us that way.

 

To the others who say l2p or never go out alone. That's just BS. You don't get to lvl 50 and BM gear without knowing how to play. And we shouldn't need someone to hold our hand just to go out into the world.

 

Every good damage ability a commando has a acitvation time. So going againts any of the other classes your going to have your casts interupted and ammo drained becasue of it. Some of them have multpile interupts, my Vanguard has 5.

 

For a heavy armor wearing trooper Commandos are way too squishy. Guess it comes with being an after thought to the game.

Edited March 5, 2012 by whataboutbob

[Ralphieokole]

To the others who say l2p or never go out alone. That's just BS. You don't get to lvl 50 and BM gear without knowing how to play. And we shouldn't need someone to hold our hand just to go out into the world.

 

While I can appreciate what you are trying to say Bob, anyone in this game can get 50 and BM with time, skill has nothing to do with it. And they are making it easier! Hooray for more bads thinking they are good due to reaching the BM mark!

 

Just my two cents on the main topic. I personally don't 1v1 anything, I am CM spec Valor Rank 74 on The Harbinger. However, I have only run with two other commandos that were good (think about how many WZ that is and how many commandos have been in there). They both have played Gunn and AS. Neither one of them have ever complained about their roles or abilities.

 

IMO, where we get lost in this game is that people want to be the derp 1v1 people saying look at me, "I am billy ******!" Fact is, we all have our bane classes. If you are getting 1v1 by anyone, chances are you are doing it wrong.

[Redcorn]

Artillery is not mobile and never wins a knife fight. I see my gunny as artillery in PVP, and not Rambo. If you want to be Rambo I think you simply chose the wrong AC and maybe class.

[dejavy]

Got 60 valor for my AS Vanguard yesterday. Won't back to commando until they change spam mechanism anyway. But artillery is a good comparison and some may calm themselves down with the statement, not me. It's not world of tanks but TOR and the distances here are incredibly short. Telling the truth you made me smile calling gunnery an artillery unit. Really I used to play one in WoT and had the exact same feeling when a medium tank (marauder) approaches you, the only thing u can do is to die trying to shoot once hoping for the best. The end is usually predictable just like in gunnery case lol

[Bbizzle]

L2PositionYourself.

 

In group based pvp people on sorcs or sages or mercs or commandos need to understand your classes weaknesses and strengths.

 

if these classes **** on you in close combat or 1v1, Put yourself in places where its hard for them to do so.

 

Example: Door 2 voidstar You are the attackers. They keep funneling out of the spawn, your teams trying to plant, its a fight. You stand to the immediate right of the pillar right after the bridge to the left. Now you are out of LOS of them looking around at the situation coming out of the spawn, Most of them are coming out like, "whats going on here? what should I do? who to attack?" If your out in the open spamming grav, your higher up on the list. If your not in LOS, they dont know you exist. If you eventually get rushed after owning enough people they will send a melee or two after you. Now you LOS behind the pillar, force them to follow, then position yourself correctly and put them straight in the pit with you super punt. Back to business.

 

If you know you **** **** up while free-casting. Try to find ways to put yourself in that position of free-casting as much as possible. You also have to think. If I get ganked, Do I have LOS here? Can I still help my team here? etc.

 

I've had voidstars where on door 2, my commando friend and I put 17 people in the pit, while on defense. Over the course of say 2-4 minutes.

[dejavy]

L2PositionYourself.

 

I'd say, L2Sukagainstpremades.

This is all bull**** mate. The door attacking is the only wz gunnery can feel more or less fine. Huttball isn't counted coz speed and pass win there not dps or something else. The rest situations are damn aspain if you play against smart players not idiotic pug sorcs standing near a node casting their lightnings.

 

Well, i'm sorry...maybe i've just hurt one's feelings but gunnery has no place in premades against premades. If i meet one on the battlefield, he's my target №1 while my mates shuting down the healer. Most melees think the same, be sure. If he's guarded, stands really far (no guard then) and can't be harpooned because of the walls or smth, yes he has a little chance against me but not a single one against scoundrels/shadows who search such like targets most of the time.

 

Telling the truth i always play range dps and gunnery is just what i'd choose first but the spam and channeling design killed gunnery in me. AS build is just ok but senseless if you have AS vanguard with much more utility and great chance in one-on-one fights.

Edited March 7, 2012 by dejavy

[Kalliadies]

To the OP. I wish I could disagree with you but you're absolutley right. We cant handle 1vs1 combat against melee fighters. They just haven't built us that way.

 

To the others who say l2p or never go out alone. That's just BS. You don't get to lvl 50 and BM gear without knowing how to play. And we shouldn't need someone to hold our hand just to go out into the world.

 

Every good damage ability a commando has a acitvation time. So going againts any of the other classes your going to have your casts interupted and ammo drained becasue of it. Some of them have multpile interupts, my Vanguard has 5.

 

For a heavy armor wearing trooper Commandos are way too squishy. Guess it comes with being an after thought to the game.

 

2 things.

 

You are right that the commando is'nt built too well for 1 on 1. I think of them as the artillery that obliterates enemies from afar. If the enemy get in close, bye bye artillery. (not to say that you always lose)

 

You couldnt be more wrong about people knowing how to play just because they got to battlemaster and lvl 50. Infact, the majority of the players I run into in PuGs havent grasped basic pvp elements.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Keinhoran]

Well your title says everything. Commandos have to accept it. Its a grp dependent class. We can not go out alone without any support. Even then a dps sage/sorc will out dps us due to their mechanic survaivability tools they have. Unfortunately what I see is that any proper team for rated WZ's will not accept any commandos in their ranks. The team propably will consist of sage/sentinel/guardian/random since they can have a lot of cc's. Just as you said accept it.

[Vishos]

L2PositionYourself.

 

In group based pvp people on sorcs or sages or mercs or commandos need to understand your classes weaknesses and strengths.

 

if these classes **** on you in close combat or 1v1, Put yourself in places where its hard for them to do so.

 

Example: Door 2 voidstar You are the attackers. They keep funneling out of the spawn, your teams trying to plant, its a fight. You stand to the immediate right of the pillar right after the bridge to the left. Now you are out of LOS of them looking around at the situation coming out of the spawn, Most of them are coming out like, "whats going on here? what should I do? who to attack?" If your out in the open spamming grav, your higher up on the list. If your not in LOS, they dont know you exist. If you eventually get rushed after owning enough people they will send a melee or two after you. Now you LOS behind the pillar, force them to follow, then position yourself correctly and put them straight in the pit with you super punt. Back to business.

 

If you know you **** **** up while free-casting. Try to find ways to put yourself in that position of free-casting as much as possible. You also have to think. If I get ganked, Do I have LOS here? Can I still help my team here? etc.

 

I've had voidstars where on door 2, my commando friend and I put 17 people in the pit, while on defense. Over the course of say 2-4 minutes.

 

To put it in terms u can understand. Since ur signature says your a vanguard. interrupts alot better defense measures than commando. also for the most part a melee class with some range and gap closers. this is ur class.

 

Commando Gunnery stands still.

ZERO ability to kyte

NO slows

No interupts but every 60 sec at range or a 45 sec cd with a 2 sec cast

No Force speed like sorc/sage

No shields/bubble besides the R shield every 2 mins

a decent Knockback( No snare unlike Sorc)

 

I hope i havent lost you yet. Ill give u a sec to take a sip of ur troll juice.... waits 20 secs

 

Ok lets continue

 

Forced to build vortex for instant casts to hit hard

So spamming grav round 1.5 sec cast cant move vortex debuff on timer.

No Dots besides plasma grenade ( cost 4 ammo 2 sec cast dot last 4 sec)

Hope ur following me here. Game designed to really move around alot

 

So hutball unless ur a selfish player you gotta run around which means spamming like a turret inst an option unless your in it for fun and could care less about the win

 

Void star running constantly trying to cap door/ keep ppl off it.

Unable to kite anyone so spam, and Aoe and die are the options there.

 

Now lets refer back to your example about the voidstar pillars its nice but pillar humping alot better for sorc/sage( force speed quick LOS, + shield to help absorb damage while u heal tons of CC so healing up is no biggie) This doesn't work as well for commandos but im sure the OP is using the pillar as best he can like most decent commandos

 

Lets talk civil war same deal lots of running back and forth some spamming here and there no kyting just stand spam and die.

 

melee have +80% uptime on a commando i wont get started on classes with a charge of any sort u might as well strip and let them roll you.

 

I can tell you the only time you can keep a melee off you for more than 2 seconds besides in huttball

 

You ready for this. Grab your troll popcorn for this ZOMGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!

 

when a melee doesn't have a leap off CD or force speed + concussion charge zomg. Hope they aren't immune as well cause that would suck...

 

OP is simply saying as far as utility commando is lacking. all other range have something that gives them a chance vs melee. While i will admit i roll almost every ranged dps that even bothers to attempt my commando 1v1. A half way decent melee outside of huttball will take me down no prob.

 

Doesn't matter how good i am and what i think a decent melee will kill any gunnery commando dps like or not

[Joshrus]

I am cm specced 46 valor with mostly champ gear.

 

1 vs 1 iam hard to kill group the same.

 

I feel like a pally with reactive and kolto super charge

[Gyronamics]

Thread is relvant to Gunnery more than Assault.

 

Assault can kite (default attack has a 50% snare and a DoT), ignite a target (gives 9% dmg boost to gun attacks), use HiB and Plastique on the run.

 

Also using tech override and reserve powercell on plasma grenade gives you another instant burst with DoT usable while moving.

 

However you can't kite and do efficient DPS at the same time. Kiting is fighting defensively or attempting to distract.

 

Just like Gunnery the best way to do DPS is at range and stationary. For best ammo usage and damage you need to use FA and CB and get lucky with the HiB procs. If it procs a lot you're swimming in ammo, if it doesn't you're looking at HS to keep the bar up.

 

 

Still, even with the kiting it's really not great for a ranged class to face melee. Just like it's not great for a melee to get rained on by ranged.

 

Chose your class, this is what it's bad at.

[monimoni]

While I can appreciate what you are trying to say Bob, anyone in this game can get 50 and BM with time, skill has nothing to do with it. And they are making it easier! Hooray for more bads thinking they are good due to reaching the BM mark!

 

Just my two cents on the main topic. I personally don't 1v1 anything, I am CM spec Valor Rank 74 on The Harbinger. However, I have only run with two other commandos that were good (think about how many WZ that is and how many commandos have been in there). They both have played Gunn and AS. Neither one of them have ever complained about their roles or abilities.

 

IMO, where we get lost in this game is that people want to be the derp 1v1 people saying look at me, "I am billy ******!" Fact is, we all have our bane classes. If you are getting 1v1 by anyone, chances are you are doing it wrong.

 

Which brings me to my next point - don't smoke pot!

[badatt]

Your kinda doing it wrong..don't take offense but your not meant to take out melee just stop..pick out the "soft" targets and burn them down light and medium armor DPS/Heals are your fodder.

 

This. If I see a heavily armored target, I usually switch off, or I will throw a DoT on him and then switch.

 

The damage mitigation on the heavily armored classes really discourages me from trying to take them down unless it's 1v1.

[ScarletKnightBL]

We aren't really that strong 1 v.s. 1 but don't worry were getting nerfed in 1.2 so it's all good.

[Ranas]

Is it bad that I find I have more survivability in WZ's on my commando with Columi gear than PvP gear?

 

5/5 columi gear and the rest filled in with pvp gear, I find I can take a beating and dish one out, or I am just going crazy and my mind wants me to think it's better because of all the dieing I did in my full pvp gear lol.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Ranas

[ChemicalRider]

If somone want more survivability go and respec for a hybrid healer/dps build with Grav Round - it rocks, its more fun and its overpower ;p - thats why maybe BW is nerfing Commando/BH. In hybrid build u can win some 1vs2 (when Imperials have similiar gear) and u pwn every class in 1vs1.