As long as ranged is blatantly favored, PVP in this game will never be balanced.

[Darth_Paddy]

There was a thread i suscribed to before on this topic. This was the OP's suggestions: (full credit to OP NephilimNexus , not mine)

 

 

Instead of arbitrarily setting flat ranges for every weapon, I think it would be more realistic to simply give weapons values for accuracy over range.

 

Meaning that every blaster wouldn't be the same flat 30m. Rather, range would be (in theory) as far as you can target but effective range would be around 30m for normal blaster rifles. Firing within effective range would give you your normal full chance to hit. Firing beyond that would result in geometric drop in accuracy as the range-to-target increases.

 

For extra realism, tweak the weapons themselves to reflect this. Scatterguns would be the lowest, say 10 to 15m of effective range. Pistols would be next, 20 to 25m. Blaser rifles and assault guns would fall into the 30 to 40m range and sniper rifles would naturally be the longers, at least 40 to 50m (or more) for their effective range.

 

So if your chance to hit drops by, say, 5% per meter past your effective range, then yes you could try to hit a target standing at 50m with your blaster pistol, but you'd be 60% less likely to hit. A sniper rifle, on the other hand, would have normal chances.

 

Final note (to keep snipers from becoming game-killers): Give weapons a minimum range as well, with penalties for firing too close. Same formula but in reverse, with pistols & scatterguns having no minimum range penatlies at all. Rifles & assault guns having a small minimum range, say 5 to 10 meters and snipers the largest bracket of around 10 to 20 meters.

 

This would create more interesting tactics, I believe.

[GuardianDW]

SWTOR massively favors ranged. It's stupid; it's Star Wars. Lightsabers are useless in SWTOR, not how it should be.

 

Reroll ranged. Devs wont' listen until rated WZs show solid SI/JC classes.

[Tenryou]

Yes! Ranged classes should never have a stupid advantage (like range) over melee classes. It's stupid how a ranged class can shoot me from 30m away while I have to be within 4m to be able to hit them back! When I finally get in range to attack them, they do everything they can to keep me at a range where I can't attack them! It's so unfair that they will not let me get an advantage against them because they know that without the range advantage I can demolish them. It's not like I have abilities like Force leap/snares/stealth/movement speed buffs or something to close that gap. I should be able to swing my lightsaber and use the Force to magically hit them from 30m away too. And a Force user should be immune to CC because they're one with the Force. Mind tricks like stuns should never work on them.

 

This is Star Wars, gdi. Anyone with a blaster weapon should not be able to hit anyone at all (unless you're the good guy. Sorry Imps) and Jedis should be able to deflect all attacks unless they're facing another Jedi/Sith.

 

That's TRUE balance.

[sonofchiefy]

the play mechanism is all wrong, you should be able to kite range attacks and the game would be balanced for that

[Redmarx]

SWTOR massively favors ranged. It's stupid; it's Star Wars. Lightsabers are useless in SWTOR, not how it should be.

 

Reroll ranged. Devs wont' listen until rated WZs show solid SI/JC classes.

 

Wow. You're bad. Rated warzones will show you that it's not the game balance, it's you being bad. SI/JC as healers, melee will be the dps.

[hozke]

the game does NOT favor ranged dps, everything has its counter in this game, as a marauder i have no problems what so ever... interrupt is your friend: ) grav round /tracer spammers are just funny, interrupt them and they panic lolz

[Zekeiele]

You notice a huge decline in Grav/tracer users in the 50s it take a lot more skill and situational awareness to play that class well against skilled opponents.

[Zyillo]

my Shadow wins 2v1s on Ilum.

 

Merc & Sage vs. Shadow

 

I win.

 

I beat the Sage easily because I have a Sage and I know what to look for.

 

Beating the Bounty Hunter came down to 2 separate moments. 1. Interupting Tracer Missile 2. Baiting out Jet Boost (knockback). He was ready to use it, I was ready to avoid it. If he had knocked me back he probably would have won. Instead, it whiffed, and I was right back in there.

 

So. I won 2v1 as a melee class. And I disagree with you. Melee scales incredibly well with the right gear given the individual behind the keyboard understands the fundamentals of this game.

[Phinion]

Lol, exactly... Sniper/Gunslinger is ranged, but is 100% the least favored class in the game.

 

HEHE... love my sniper, not many of us and is very fun to play.

[Foenixz]

Roll a Marauder then and see how much ranged is favored lol

[Guardianofnature]

There was a thread i suscribed to before on this topic. This was the OP's suggestions: (full credit to OP NephilimNexus , not mine)

 

 

Instead of arbitrarily setting flat ranges for every weapon, I think it would be more realistic to simply give weapons values for accuracy over range.

 

Meaning that every blaster wouldn't be the same flat 30m. Rather, range would be (in theory) as far as you can target but effective range would be around 30m for normal blaster rifles. Firing within effective range would give you your normal full chance to hit. Firing beyond that would result in geometric drop in accuracy as the range-to-target increases.

 

For extra realism, tweak the weapons themselves to reflect this. Scatterguns would be the lowest, say 10 to 15m of effective range. Pistols would be next, 20 to 25m. Blaser rifles and assault guns would fall into the 30 to 40m range and sniper rifles would naturally be the longers, at least 40 to 50m (or more) for their effective range.

 

So if your chance to hit drops by, say, 5% per meter past your effective range, then yes you could try to hit a target standing at 50m with your blaster pistol, but you'd be 60% less likely to hit. A sniper rifle, on the other hand, would have normal chances.

 

Final note (to keep snipers from becoming game-killers): Give weapons a minimum range as well, with penalties for firing too close. Same formula but in reverse, with pistols & scatterguns having no minimum range penatlies at all. Rifles & assault guns having a small minimum range, say 5 to 10 meters and snipers the largest bracket of around 10 to 20 meters.

 

This would create more interesting tactics, I believe.

 

but then the game would be waaay mroe about RNG and having luck be a big factor in evne hitting a person with an attack. I wouldn;t like that, would you?

[Sookster]

I play a share of melee and ranged classes, I'll say ranged is waaaaaaaaaaaaay easier to pvp with than melee. There are times I had no problems as melee, and other times it being impossible to even stay close to some targets, and commandos or mercs can be that particular target- they can be good at keeping melee away from them. Edited March 4, 2012 by Sookster

[ProfessorWalsh]

learn to play

 

have you see the devistation sith warriros and jedi knigts do to players when they get in melee range ?

 

if you cant get that melee out your face you are as good as dead.

 

If you can't get that melee out of your face then you are also a mediocre player. It is *very* easy to kite melee.

[Sookster]

You notice a huge decline in Grav/tracer users in the 50s it take a lot more skill and situational awareness to play that class well against skilled opponents.

 

A decline? I've been seeing a huge INCREASE on my server, and the reason is getting ready for rated matches. Commando/merc will be able to heal, damage, burn roles so you'll see more than one in premades. My merc will be them if we do rated.

 

It's the sages and sorcs that has been declining lately, I used to face a bunch of rock spammers a few weeks ago in a 50 wz, but now only seeing 1 or 2 of them and then seeing a bunch of heavy cannon wielders... the FOTM has shifted.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Sookster

[Orangerascal]

Please op reroll ranged. Then come and make the same thread

[HellFlame]

If you can't get that melee out of your face then you are also a mediocre player. It is *very* easy to kite melee.

 

you obviously never played against good melee's.

[Zekeiele]

A decline? I've been seeing a huge INCREASE on my server, and the reason is getting ready for rated matches. Commando/merc will be able to heal, damage, burn roles so you'll see more than one in premades. My merc will be them if we do rated.

 

It's the sages and sorcs that has been declining lately, I used to face a bunch of rock spammers a few weeks ago in a 50 wz, but now only seeing 1 or 2 of them and then seeing a bunch of heavy cannon wielders... the FOTM has shifted.

 

Probably should have prefaced it with "on my server"...my server is pretty even numbers with skill/gear level slighlty Pub tilted and I don't see near as many Gunnery/arsenal players as I did Pre 50.

[Wassawp]

If you can't deal with ranged classes as a melee, blame yourself, not them...

[Danscall]

Title says it all. There is a really good reason you see so many teams with nothing but BH/Trooper Sorc/Sages. Yes, this is probably the umpteenth thread on it, but after seeing warzone after warzone of nothing but TM and lightning spam, I am fed up. Ranged classes in general aren't punished nearly enough for staying in melee range. Yet, if I am melee within 30 meters of any ranged class, it's spam damage and CC from several different sources.

 

Personally, I think melee classes, or at least the Guardian, are pretty much fine. Our lack or ranged skills (and its not a total lack, I can certainly finish people off in the ten metre range) seems to me to be made up by our other abilities, especially mobility. There are no less than three 'leap' skills in the guardian catalogue, and one has another ability to finish if the cooldown instantly of one of those 3. I can easily get into melee range with those; its literally never been a problem. Id even say that the tradeoff gives a significant advantage in huttball; If a guardian gets the ball in prime conditions there are 4 leaps we can pull off to score.

[Noctournys]

If you can't get that melee out of your face then you are also a mediocre player. It is *very* easy to kite melee.

 

Really depends on your class, i guess.

 

As a sniper, its not that easy to kite unless you're a lethality/eng hybrid, and even then - one 2 sec root and a 30% snare isn't the bees knees or anything.

 

You cant o pen up enough distance in the root duration to not just get immediately charged to, and if all you do is open up 10 yards and then take cover again, hell just walk back to you in 2 seconds. Cover pulse doesn't work about half the time (even if they arent full on Resolve) and even if it does, it doesnt knockback nearly far enough - again, it's about 4 steps/3 seconds.

 

Kiting just isn't reliable, particularly with resolve making Debilitate/Cover Pulse/Ambush Knockback unreliable and the only real root we have being such a short duration that you cant actually open any distance.

 

Maybe its different for a sorc or mercenary (the only other ranged classes in the whole game, w/their mirrors) - but i dont really see any kiting tools in the merc toolkit and the sorc ones are kinda irrelevant - charges and pulls are on such short cooldowns that even if you get rooted, youll be back on him in seconds and his ways to get you off are on longer cooldowns than your charge or pull.

 

Melee does just fine in this game, and if you think otherwise you're deluded.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Noctournys

[savionen]

If you can't deal with ranged classes as a melee, blame yourself, not them...

 

If you can't deal with melee class as a ranged, blame yourself, not them...

[ProfessorWalsh]

Really depends on your class, i guess.

 

As a sniper, its not that easy to kite unless you're a lethality/eng hybrid, and even then - one 2 sec root and a 30% snare isn't the bees knees or anything.

 

Against a Sentinel this is all that is needed.

 

Here is what you do:

 

Go into cover, this nullifies Force Leap, stopping them from using the main gap closer. Pop them with the snare from range. While they come in on you, unload with whatever they can. Your snare should refresh very soon, don't worry though, and don't try to instantly run.

 

Finish your rotation, they won't kill you that fast.

 

Pop the root and move, they may have you snared, but that is fine.

 

Grab distance, go back into cover, this (once again) nullifies Force Leap.

Snare them again and continue to unload. Once they close use Cover Pulse. I have never seen Cover Pulse not work.

 

The only time Cover Pulse doesn't work is against Guardians who gain CC immunity for a few seconds after a leap or if they have resolve up. Continue to unload on them after they land.

 

You will either:

A) Kill them.

B) Buy your team enough time to start healing you.

C) Draw the fight out, thus effectively removing the Sentinel from the equation for a length of time.

 

 

You cant o pen up enough distance in the root duration to not just get immediately charged to, and if all you do is open up 10 yards and then take cover again, hell just walk back to you in 2 seconds. Cover pulse doesn't work about half the time (even if they arent full on Resolve) and even if it does, it doesnt knockback nearly far enough - again, it's about 4 steps/3 seconds.

 

That 3 seconds is another delay for your side.

 

Kiting just isn't reliable, particularly with resolve making Debilitate/Cover Pulse/Ambush Knockback unreliable and the only real root we have being such a short duration that you cant actually open any distance.

 

Kiting isn't supposed to be reliable. Kiting makes melee completely useless. It is supposed to be used in short bursts to buy extra time and damage.

 

Maybe its different for a sorc or mercenary (the only other ranged classes in the whole game, w/their mirrors) - but i dont really see any kiting tools in the merc toolkit and the sorc ones are kinda irrelevant - charges and pulls are on such short cooldowns that even if you get rooted, youll be back on him in seconds and his ways to get you off are on longer cooldowns than your charge or pull.

 

Melee does just fine in this game, and if you think otherwise you're deluded.

 

Charges are on a 15 second cool down for Sentinels.

Sentinels don't have a pull.

 

Melee suffers worse than you think.

[Rasheth]

BH/Trooper + Sorc/Sage is just a min maxed team designed for pvp. with so many people rolling them the changes you get a combination of that maybe thrown in with a jedi knight then yea it is extremely hard to stop without coordination. I experienced it for the first time last night.

[Dwyer]

If you can't deal with ranged classes as a melee, blame yourself, not them...

 

You can formulate whatever seemingly clever garbage in your head you want, it doesn't make it true. Your smug comebacks, unfounded statements, and any feeling of accomplishment are null. You can run around your house screaming about how amazing you are all day long, but at the end of the day, you've never been spam tossed around by a sorcerer/sage... you haven't gone toe to toe with one, spamming interrupts, LOS'ing, leaping back in, popping cooldowns and realizing you apparently have less mitigation than they do.... So yeah, your statement is about as effective as saying, "I PUT SOAP IN A BLENDER AND DRINK IT AND IT FIXES EVERYHTINGS!!!"

 

go back to your bridge.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Dwyer

[Noctournys]

Against a Sentinel this is all that is needed.

 

Here is what you do:

 

Go into cover, this nullifies Force Leap, stopping them from using the main gap closer. Pop them with the snare from range. While they come in on you, unload with whatever they can. Your snare should refresh very soon, don't worry though, and don't try to instantly run.

 

Finish your rotation, they won't kill you that fast.

 

Pop the root and move, they may have you snared, but that is fine.

 

Grab distance, go back into cover, this (once again) nullifies Force Leap.

Snare them again and continue to unload. Once they close use Cover Pulse. I have never seen Cover Pulse not work.

 

The only time Cover Pulse doesn't work is against Guardians who gain CC immunity for a few seconds after a leap or if they have resolve up. Continue to unload on them after they land.

 

You will either:

A) Kill them.

B) Buy your team enough time to start healing you.

C) Draw the fight out, thus effectively removing the Sentinel from the equation for a length of time.

 

 

 

 

That 3 seconds is another delay for your side.

 

 

 

Kiting isn't supposed to be reliable. Kiting makes melee completely useless. It is supposed to be used in short bursts to buy extra time and damage.

 

 

 

Charges are on a 15 second cool down for Sentinels.

Sentinels don't have a pull.

 

Melee suffers worse than you think.

 

I play a jugg (and im not spec'ed into the root/snare immunity currently) and i have no problems getting on, and staying on, just about anyone.

 

As for Sentinels/Marauders - as my sniper, good ones can kill me in 3-5 globals from 100-0, through ballistic dampers and shield probe. My health disappears so fast i cant even figure out whats happening before i die. Other than geared sins, it is the ONLY class i really fear/will almost always kill me.