Hero Engine: why?

[Niil]

Why shut the game down? Just hire more people to build the game around the Unreal Engine.

 

Hell, the Koreans can spit out a new mmo every six months.

 

The odds of that happening are akin to the odds of me winning the lottery. Actually probably not even that high. Bioware has already invested probably thousands of man hours into this engine. I'd say there's probably no chance that they'll even bother considering the option.

[ihyln]

But yet you are still here.... leave already

 

hahaha yes telling people to leave. that will fix the issue!

[Barracudastr]

The odds of that happening are akin to the odds of me winning the lottery. Actually probably not even that high. Bioware has already invested probably thousands of man hours into this engine. I'd say there's probably no chance that they'll even bother considering the option.

 

Not only that they already made back what they spent on it.

 

So really if it fails they already made a profit in EA's eyes.

 

In my opinion I think they could care less about the engine and how much people hate it and the issues we are having.

 

Their graphics "strike team" seems to be focused on eliminating bad performance by making the graphics worse and just removing ilum pvp all together.

 

that tells me they are probably unsure how to fix it.

[Volksworgen]

What makes Eclipse better than Hero?

 

What makes Unreal better than Hero?

 

What makes any engine better?

 

I want details. Technical details.

 

What makes Unreal better?

 

Really? There are enough games out there to give you this answer, but I am guessing you really don't know about anything except hero engine and swtor.

 

What makes any engine better?

 

How it performs. That simple enough?

 

You don't need technical details for what you just asked. The answers are out there if you have actually played games that use different engines, but again I am guessing you just know about swtor and hero engine, else you wouldn't be asking the questions you are asking right now. Technical details...... yea right.

 

You are simply trying too hard........ to act smart.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Volksworgen

[DarthKhaos]

Regarding the "If you don't like it, why are you playing it?!" comments, I can only explain my personal reasons.

 

1- Bought the 6 Month Subscription plan, before playing the game, as I had ultimate fate in Bioware/Lucas, plus really enjoyed the lore possibilities, and gosh darn, I loved the cinematic videos. Also a huge fan of Knights of the Old Republic (Number 1, not much of a fan of Number 2)

 

2- By the time I got around to making the decision that the game as-is, didn't meet my standards for a P2P MMORPG, I had already got billed. All total, it came to around $180 to play this game (ABout 80 for the Box, 92 for the sub)

 

3- I'm cheap. If I pay for something, I wish to get at least my moneys worth (The exception is CoD:MW3 which sits unopened in front of me). My sub has about 140 Days left (haven't checked for awhile now) and in that time I plan on finishing up at least four class stories on Republic side.

 

4- Hope. See, I'm the gamer Bioware was hoping to hook on this game. MMORPG fan who wasn't currently playing an MMORPG, or wasn't invested in one. So, no WoW, Rift etc. to hold me back. I'm an avid story-lover. I won't play games without a good story, bottom-line. I was a huge Bioware fan, and most importantly, a huge Sci-Fi fan. (not a real Star Wars fan or anything, I like the EU better than the movies)

 

5- Sci-Fi MMORPG. Soooo tired of the same ol' fantasy MMORPGs. I like Space. I like the idea of exploring different planets, observing the different wild-life and different atmospheres, and weather.

 

 

But, do I think they can fix this game to the point where I would feel comfortable not only re-subbing, but buying an expansion pack? No. The issues I have with this game are largely design flaws, that are simply not fixable. To me, this game became a Tide-Me-Over until something better comes along that hooks my interest. Is that something Tera? I doubt it. I'm not a fan of Korean MMORPGs. Is it GW2? Probably.

 

But it isn't SWTOR, and if they missed the mark so bad that they couldn't retain a player like myself, then what makes them think they can retain anyone?

Point 2 & 3 don't match. I'm curious how can you say you're cheep yet buy a 6month sub?

Also how can you say you think they can fix the game and in the next breadth say the issues you have is stuff they can't fix.

And finally what does the issues you mentioned have to do with the engine?

 

I'm confused.

 

 

What makes Unreal better?

 

Really? There are enough games out there to give you this answer, but I am guessing you really don't know about anything except hero engine and swtor.

 

What makes any engine better?

 

How it performs. That simple enough?

 

You don't need technical details for what you just asked. The answers are out there if you have actually played games that use different engines, but again I am guessing you just know about swtor and hero engine, else you wouldn't be asking the questions you are asking right now. Technical details...... yea right.

 

You are simply trying too hard........ to act smart.

So you avoid giving the technical reasons by saying other games use it.

The question was what are the technical reasons. You know part of the things that companies use to make a decision.

Edited March 2, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[ShadsAU]

Point 2 & 3 don't match. I'm curious how can you say you're cheep yet buy a 6month sub?

Also how can you say you think they can fix the game and in the next breadth say the issues you have is stuff they can't fix.

And finally what does the issues you mentioned have to do with the engine?

 

I'm confused.

 

 

 

So you avoid giving the technical reasons by saying other games use it.

The question was what are the technical reasons. You know part of the things that companies use to make a decision.

 

You're blindly defending a game. Name another game that uses Hero Engine, that has the same dev time and money invested like this game.

[Kubernetic]

Not only that they already made back what they spent on it.

 

So really if it fails they already made a profit in EA's eyes.

 

In my opinion I think they could care less about the engine and how much people hate it and the issues we are having.

 

Their graphics "strike team" seems to be focused on eliminating bad performance by making the graphics worse and just removing ilum pvp all together.

 

that tells me they are probably unsure how to fix it.

 

I'm not sure where to go with this post.

 

Trust me... everyone that works with the engine cares about how the engine performs. The developers are dealing with MANY more aspects of the game engine than you are faced with.

 

This includes management, which has to navigate any issues with their teams being variously able to perform different tasks with the engine tools they have available. This also includes those involved in the game's direction, because if they have ideas on what they wish to do with the game, but are aware that the engine won't allow them for some reason, this will be another level of pressure to change/modify/resolve the engine issues.

 

If the need is there to fix the engine, and the funds are there to do so, they'll do it. It's merely a computation of numbers.

 

What they most likely are NOT going to do is start over from scratch and build a new engine from the ground up, as it would be a pointless exercise and far too cost prohibitive.

 

But the fact that they've already gone down the path of modifying the engine means that they are capable enough to fiddle with, modify and reprogram the engine itself, and have the licensing ability to do so. There's no reason why they can't implement most if not all of the changes that the modern Hero Engine version contains... they'll just have to do it over time as it becomes necessary.

 

In the long run, they've still saved a boatload of cash by using a pre-designed engine rather than building their own.

[terminova]

You're blindly defending a game. Name another game that uses Hero Engine, that has the same dev time and money invested like this game.

 

You're blindly attacking a game.

[Jederix]

Spoken like a player whos never touched any of the actual MP components of the game. How doe sit feel to pay $15 a month for a single player game with IRC included for free?

 

Plenty of people have no issue with the game. Stop trying to project what you think onto others. Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you want it to be so.

[BigOso]

Do we really need a thousand more posts of wild speculation from laypeople which accomplishes nothing?

 

Or does anyone have any actual evidence this time around?

 

this...

[Azzras]

You're blindly defending a game. Name another game that uses Hero Engine, that has the same dev time and money invested like this game.

 

Again, sell me on the Unreal Engine.

 

What AAA MMOs use it?

 

What are the differences between it and Hero?

 

What are the technical advantages it has over Hero?

 

Honest questions.

 

Edit:

And they didn't really spend that much on this game: http://www.myfreeps3.net/ps3-news/1514/analyst-swtor-could-cost-ea-as-much-as-80-million-to-develop

Edited March 2, 2012 by Azzras

[Icebaron]

So you avoid giving the technical reasons by saying other games use it.

The question was what are the technical reasons. You know part of the things that companies use to make a decision.

 

Well, a big one is multi threading(there is none). Another reason is the programming language and script (rather then using a well supported free one like LUA or python, they made one up themselves).

 

And aside from that, you don't need to know HOW a car runs to know that Ford makes a good car. But some new car on the market from a maker you never heard of is going to be a chance.

 

So everyone drives a ford around with no problems, you buy this really expensive car that nobody ever heard of and it keeps breaking down. That is the hero engine.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Icebaron

[ShadsAU]

You're blindly attacking a game.

 

mm pretty sure I'm complaining about first hand experience, but you just keep shoving your head deeper in that sand.

[Jederix]

Facts have no place in this thread when the fanbois are around. You'll shatter that fragile little bubble they are living in.

 

Resort to insults, that is a surefire way to get people to agree with you. Enjoy your crusade. You aren't going to convince anyone except for those who already agree with you.

[Saiaku]

Despite the fact that many players have NO ISSUES with this game, doesn't mean that the engine is is NOT poorly coded and uses system/hardware resources very wrongly.

 

It's a fact established by thousands of players. Accept it, you non-believers.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Saiaku

[Niil]

Plenty of people have no issue with the game. Stop trying to project what you think onto others. Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you want it to be so.

 

Prettymuch this. I have 0 problems in anything other than large scale illum battles. And illum sucks anyways so I don't care. It could run perfectly and I still wouldn't go back. Most of my issues were resolved shortly after release with one of the minipatches they did.

[Jederix]

We can dream

 

Or complain. My guess is you will take option 2.

[Azzras]

Well, a big one is multi threading(there is none). Another reason is the programming language and script (rather then using a well supported free one like LUA or python, they made one up themselves).

 

And aside from that, you don't need to know HOW a car runs to know that Ford makes a good car. But some new car on the market from a maker you never heard of is going to be a chance.

 

So everyone drives a ford around with no problems, you buy this really expensive car that nobody ever heard of and it keeps breaking down. That is the hero engine.

 

Bad analogy mate.

 

You could be bashed for saying that Ford makes a good car if the Honda or Chevy people read this.

[ShadsAU]

Again, sell me on the Unreal Engine.

 

What AAA MMOs use it?

 

What are the differences between it and Hero?

 

What are the technical advantages it has over Hero?

 

Honest questions.

 

Honestly, im not sure UE3 can hold an mmo up on its own. it would look better though.

 

Rift shows that a mmo on its own custom engine (based on another one i cant remeber) can work though.

[Icebaron]

Again, sell me on the Unreal Engine.

 

What AAA MMOs use it?

 

What are the differences between it and Hero?

 

What are the technical advantages it has over Hero?

 

Honest questions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games

 

I played Tera and it was smooth with 100 people on my screen in cities. Gorgeous too.

 

But to be fair, I heard Mortal Online (also the U3 engine) is worse than SWTOR in large group settings.

 

So no doubt the developer of the games have an effect on the outcome. But being that the Hero Engine is untested on anything other then SWTOR, and the criticisms I have heard on the engine itself, I would like to think a company like Bioware is capable of producing good code unlike an indie developer of the likes that made Mortal Online.

[lineschmidt]

mm pretty sure I'm complaining about first hand experience, but you just keep shoving your head deeper in that sand.

And my first hand experience is the game runs great. Your point?

[Icebaron]

Bad analogy mate.

 

You could be bashed for saying that Ford makes a good car if the Honda or Chevy people read this.

 

Honda maybe, but Chevy fans can kiss my arse.

[Uruare]

I don't know jack, diddly or squat about game engines, and no amount of reading about them in various magazines and e-zines lends me the position of feeling informed enough to make critical assessments about what Bioware has or hasn't, could or couldn't and will or won't do with the Hero engine.

 

I am, upon the topic, entirely uneducated in any significant or meaningful capacity. That said, even from an uneducated position of familiarity based primarily on firsthand gameplay experience with lots of games across many genres, SWTOR doesn't actually feel terrible to play.

 

I'm pretty sick of how its engineered to be played, which is too much like WoW for my liking (played WoW enough, still play WoW for my WoW fix, didn't really want to be playing WoW in space as far as gameplay goes), but outside bugs and glitches and just plain poor execution of design in operations and on hardmode bosses across the boards (some of which are still matters of opinion), it clearly has some issues, but doesn't feel broken to me.

 

 

I don't really know exactly why it can't seem to handle the numbers of people on screen they clearly intended to be on everyone's screen in warzones and on the fleet and especially on Ilum without urinating in lots of peoples' cornflakes, but it seems that it does have issues for many on that end.

 

I have no idea how much of anyone's problems are, in fact, due to their hardware and not the game, or vice versa, but that I, on a rather powerful and semi-professionally tuned machine (a topic on which I -am- quite informed upon), can say those issues are also true for me as they are for some others.

 

Game's not very good at handling more than about 20-30 people in one place at one time when combat's in the mix. They seemed to have fixed something that fixed most of my FPS issues on fleet, but that didn't seem to have any noticeable effect on my experience in Voidstar, Alderaan or Ilum PVP; get about 20+ people fighting in one spot and FPS tanks.

 

I have no idea why opening various UI windows causes so much stuttering and hanging, but it does for me and, apparently, enough others for fangry videos to get posted to youtube including it as a reason to gripe or on lists of reasons given for quitting.

 

But, for what it's worth and as much as I'm aghast and disappointed by how much it feels to me like I'm playing WoW in space with lightsabers, running around and hitting things and so on feels pretty well done. I don't like what it's doing or how it's philosophically designed to do it, but it's doing it pretty well for all that.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Uruare

[Azzras]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games

 

I played Tera and it was smooth with 100 people on my screen in cities. Gorgeous too.

 

But to be fair, I heard Mortal Online (also the U3 engine) is worse than SWTOR in large group settings.

 

So no doubt the developer of the games have an effect on the outcome. But being that the Hero Engine is untested on anything other then SWTOR, and the criticisms I have heard on the engine itself, I would like to think a company like Bioware is capable of producing good code unlike an indie developer of the likes that made Mortal Online.

 

The only criticisms I read about are here. I read somewhere the Hero engine won/nominated for awards by its peers. That doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

[Icebaron]

The only criticisms I read about are here. I read somewhere the Hero engine won/nominated for awards by its peers. That doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

 

It won awards but was untested on a massive scale. I have played with world editors (like the half life world editor) and some 3d software (like Blender and Zbrush). My guess is they simplified world building with their engine and it amazed everyone how fast they can create worlds compared to the competiion.

 

But that doesn't address the actual stability of the code, which can only be tested after games are built and played by many people with different rigs. This is where I think the Hero engine fails us.

 

And again, it's really just an assumption. The only was to be disproven would be another game come out with fantastic framerates in large crowds in combat. Unfortunately, we are the guinea pigs for this experiment.