Hero Engine: why?

[Ithacapellin]

(and yes, if you have fps issues with the game outside of the PvP specific situations then you have a problem with your gaming computer, in that something else is bottlenecking the game from running smoothly. The game should be able to run with decent fps (outside of PvP that is) on a P45 motherboard, Core 2 duo E8500 processor and HD6850, which is hardly very high end. You will need plenty of memory both on the computer and on the graphics card though).

 

In other words, patience is a virtue and it won't take a shorter time fixing it just because you keep whining about it.

 

I am sorry , but in all the years of development they never had developers testing warzone with 16 players and said , gee the performance is really crap , maybe we should do something about it. Considering it was one of the heavy selling points of the game I find that somewhat offensive.

 

Also their processor detection is pathetic. If you have a multi core system think quad i7 or 6-8 core xeon machines, in a lot of cases you will actually get worse frame rates then a dual core i5 (this is in tests with same amount of memory and a decent nvidia graphics card. On my work machine (8 core Xeon with 32Gigs of ram) the SWTOR process never goes above 18% and only uses 2 cores.

 

As much as I love the game , the engine is a long way from beng ready for release.

 

Oh if this was a f2p Game then I can understand you saying stop whining and the like. We pay a subscription (as well as the Box price) and we deserved an engine withour major issues at launch.

[Jerrjerod]

My two cents:

 

1. I'm plying game since 1985, and last few day I'm trying to get some datacons.

 

2. I hate this Engine, I'm JEDI that can't JUMP ?

 

Just check jumping, blaster reflect in Star Wars: Jedi Knight , 1997

 

[Dimeatri]

I see wat you did there Edited March 18, 2012 by Dimeatri

[Nemmar]

Given that nowadays the combat works without delay, i guess this whole talk about the engine was revealing of who knows what...

[EssBen]

Why not? Other engines have other issues, in house engine would have had different issues but still issues. Welcome to PC gaming, you'll get used to it eventually.

[brentonj]

Seems any who's not delusional is aware the engine is terrible.

[aqheron]

My two cents:

 

1. I'm plying game since 1985, and last few day I'm trying to get some datacons.

 

2. I hate this Engine, I'm JEDI that can't JUMP ?

 

Just check jumping, blaster reflect in Star Wars: Jedi Knight , 1997

 

 

Yup, I would take this combat mechanics anyday, than their crap optimized engine that goes fubar everytime a particle effect appears.

Edited April 22, 2012 by aqheron

[Fredcat]

This engine IS really bad by 2012 standards. I can't even believe any company would use a single thread engine in this age where everyone has at least a dual core and most people have 4-8 cores.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

this engine is really bad by 2012 standards. I can't even believe any company would use a single thread engine in this age where everyone has at least a dual core and most people have 4-8 cores.

 

^ this.

[belizar]

erm its very clear why they picked hero engine this was going to be Kotor 3 before ea said hey lets make an mmo engine would be fine for the solo player kotor3 just sucs when u add ppl go to a planet any planet 100+fps get some ppl and watch it drop.

[Stalkobot]

As the mods consolated threads into this one I thought I would post this link from Zocat in here, not sure if its already in here.

 

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

 

“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

 

He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”

[Drudenfusz]

I hope that the Elder Scroll MMO will show that the problem is not the engine, but just BioWare's fault.

[poulpatine]

The funny thing is i can't even think of ONE advantage this game's engine could have. Bad and uninspired cartoonish graphics, loadings screens in loading screens, bad framerate, crashes, horrible textures.

 

You know something is wrong when you can run bf3 + wow with maxed graphics at the same time and you can't even run correctly swtoron low. I can run swtor with stable framerate, except minimizing the game slow the pc soo much it's unacceptable for a mmo and i'm not even talking how it overheats your gpus.

[pogmahone]

Honestly the engine wasn't ready when they starting building the game on it and it still isn't ready.

[Valperion]

Ever since I was a beta tester for "swtor", I kept asking my-self the question.

* Was the the problem with the games engine.

 

Thanks to "zocat" for posting this info.

* http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=454059&page=5

 

I personally thought the Hero engine, was the source of the problem.

* But it turns out it was Biowares fault.

 

* Source from HeroEngine : http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/he...eets-starwars/

 

 

"“I NEED THIS.”

 

We showed the game to our friend Gordon Walton. We had known Gordon for many years, back in the days when he worked for Kesmai, our late great competitor. Gordon had since been with Sony for its Star Wars Galaxies game among other places. He knows games, especially online games.

 

Not only did we show him the game, but because Gordon knew us so well we showed him the development tools we had built around our special process – building the game online, in realtime, with tools for the entire team all in one package.

 

“I need this,” said Gordon. “I am about to start a special project and these tools will let us build and prototype fast and get something running in a hurry.” Gordon is not an excitable guy by nature but this had his adrenaline flowing. “This is just what I need! I want to license your engine.”

 

We had thought about offering our engine and tools to developers but we had expected that we would have to actually ship a game first, like Epic did with Unreal Tournament before they licensed the original Unreal Engine.

 

“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

 

He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”

 

BIOWARE LICENSES HEROENGINE FOR…

 

A few months after the show we heard from Gordon again. He was now the co-head of a new online game studio in Austin as part of BioWare. This was very impressive. Not only was Gordon a solid guy but BioWare was (and still is!) at the very top tier of game developers, the kind of company that made games that were always great. Soon the deal was done – soon meaning after months of painful negotiations and many weeks of meetings with teams of engineers who examined every line of our source code and interrogated our engineers. We were concerned over their making major changes to our engine, but we loved the size of the check that came with the deal.

 

A year or so later, it became clear to us that BioWare was building a Star Wars MMO. We had to keep the secret for another couple of years but it was incredibly exciting. If you watch some of the videos of BioWare developing SW:TOR, you can see HeroEngine and its unique tools and process being used by the massive team on this incredible project.

 

Our role began and ended long ago, in a company far far away, but we’re still excited over the part we have played in helping BioWare (now part of EA, of course) bring its vision to life."

 

 

So how are those engineers doing so far Bioware!

[Knightless]

The class skills and equipment design limits define the role players take, in there time working with the system. I enjoy the system ghosts, personally. Its a priceless chance to see what went on before our phase of testing.

 

Besides the basic IT work, it is interesting to help find answers about how the system structure its own design around previous ones. I hope that I have provided you a suitable distraction, to cover your true intentions...

May the force be with you...

Edited May 13, 2012 by Knightless

[xorcist]

The truth comes out, and now we understand more of why the game is in the state its in. I don't blame the developers of the Hero engine. It should not have been used as the foundation of this game though. EA was too hell bent on taking subs from WoW. They focused on World of Warcraft. They should've ignored WoW subscribers, and used the latest Unreal engine instead. The concept of using the same controls and familiar mechanics are fine. But you are in competition with mmo's that look and feel much more modern than TOR. The environment feels more believable. Where as I can't say the same for this game in its current state. The lighting, the amount of foliage, the sounds, the weather conditions or the absence of, the textures, all look and feel like a game of 5 years ago. For example: The water doesn't look dynamic. It looks frozen in time. When walking through swamps do you hear all sorts of insects? In Dromund Kass as well, the absence of reflections from wet surfaces due to rain. I don't feel like I'm in a believable environment, and it doesn't need to have next gen visuals. But it does need to make me feel immersed in my environment. I don't think the Hero engine is capable of creating a believable setting for today's standards in TOR.

But I know the Unreal engine can.

Reminds me of what Tython should've felt like. Edited May 13, 2012 by xorcist

[Blackstang]

Everything in this game looks like it was made out of clay. Edited May 13, 2012 by Blackstang

[Temeluchus]

Everything in this game feels like it was made out of clay.

 

Every person on Earth feels like they were made out of carbon. Amidoinitright?

[Blackstang]

Every person on Earth feels like they were made out of carbon. Amidoinitright?

 

I went ahead and edited my post for you.

[terminova]

The funny thing is i can't even think of ONE advantage this game's engine could have. Bad and uninspired cartoonish graphics, loadings screens in loading screens, bad framerate, crashes, horrible textures.

 

The part in red text has little to do with the game engine, but how zones are implemented and graphics designed. What I mean is cartoonish graphics are going to look cartoonish regardless of what game engine is being used, even the "fan favorite" UE3 engine, same with "horrible textures": they will still look horrible under even the "fan favorite" UE3 engine. That being said FPS and crashes could be attributed, in part, to the engine or driver issues or hardware issues as could crashing, but those are the only issues you listed that have anything to do with actual issues arising from the game engine itself.

 

In conclusion, if your gripe is what the graphics themselves look like, go complain to the art department; the loading screens, go complain to the people who designed the zones and how they are loaded because they would be the same even if a different game engine had been used.

 

The truth comes out, and now we understand more of why the game is in the state its in. I don't blame the developers of the Hero engine. It should not have been used as the foundation of this game though. EA was too hell bent on taking subs from WoW.

 

They weren't.

Edited May 13, 2012 by terminova

[Kourage]

Because someone was overly optimistic.

[Gerandar]

Blaming the hero engine when they used an unfinished version of it is like blaming the slicer for cutting of your thumb when you were to stupid to use the guard.

[Kubernetic]

The truth comes out, and now we understand more of why the game is in the state its in. I don't blame the developers of the Hero engine. It should not have been used as the foundation of this game though. EA was too hell bent on taking subs from WoW. They focused on World of Warcraft. They should've ignored WoW subscribers, and used the latest Unreal engine instead. The concept of using the same controls and familiar mechanics are fine. But you are in competition with mmo's that look and feel much more modern than TOR. The environment feels more believable. Where as I can't say the same for this game in its current state. The lighting, the amount of foliage, the sounds, the weather conditions or the absence of, the textures, all look and feel like a game of 5 years ago. For example: The water doesn't look dynamic. It looks frozen in time. When walking through swamps do you hear all sorts of insects? In Dromund Kass as well, the absence of reflections from wet surfaces due to rain. I don't feel like I'm in a believable environment, and it doesn't need to have next gen visuals. But it does need to make me feel immersed in my environment. I don't think the Hero engine is capable of creating a believable setting for today's standards in TOR.

But I know the Unreal engine can.

Reminds me of what Tython should've felt like.

 

Yeah, that made absolutely no sense, focusing on the #1 MMO out there that was more successful and profitable than any other.

 

Where'd these guys go to business school, Walgreen's?

 

BTW, I love the part where you lament about not having any weather in the game, then turn around and talk about the stuff on Dromund Kaas... what did you call it? "Rain"?

 

Water can be upgraded. Engines can be upgraded. What they wanted from the engine the most I think was the rapid prototyping tools which is what enables them to create the cutscene animations so quickly and efficiently. So while there are other threads out there claiming that the voice acting and animations will ruin the game, I'll safely say that I think both of these concerns are off base. They got the engine they wanted because it helps them avoid those other pitfalls.

 

Does the renderer need some optimization? Sure. If you look at the articles with Hero Engine devs, they don't even know whether ANY of their original renderer is left. Why? Because the SWTOR engineers came in and completely (or nearly completely) replaced the rendering engine with their own.

 

How did they do this?!

 

Because software engines can be modified... even by people who didn't originally write them.

 

There are other facets that need some work. The dual-process that has been commented on seems like it needs to be cleared up, as well as the blocking calls that stop all of the action while new data is being downloaded to the client, causing that excrutiating pause when someone is initiating PVP with you, etc. But those kinds of issues are also not things where you can just improve the system by removing a few semicolons and such... they are much trickier aspects and will take more time to plan out, work around, address and implement. I'm fine with waiting on that process to occur.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Kubernetic

[xorcist]

BTW, I love the part where you lament about not having any weather in the game, then turn around and talk about the stuff on Dromund Kaas... what did you call it? "Rain"?

 

You've used the words "weather" and "rain" in the wrong context of what I've wrote. There was no turning around on my part. The effects of a wet surface on Dromund Kaas "due" to rain are not present. The environment doesn't feel believable. That was the point I was driving home, and I don't think this engine can make it feel believable enough. They are welcome to prove me wrong though. I certainly hope they can.