Discussion about this so-called "huge loss of subs"

[Wolfninjajedi]

1. I shouldn't have to searc hthe galaxy to find a fight during a "War" but I have many times. I play on a high pop server at that

 

I'm sorry but this I just need to laugh at....in RL, armies don't give eachother's positions away so they can just go fight them that would be stupid.

[Denerio]

just cancelled my sub....just cant fool myself that this is a good game anymore. 2 months in and i'm bored already.

 

qft!!!

[Gamstun]

Sorry your unhappy with the game. Unsub, go back to playing WoW/console games, and enjoy your time instead of trolling/flaming forums.

 

This thread was not meant for bashing the game, it was meant simply for gathering evidence.

 

You represent the people who are quitting quite well, seeing as how you all say the same thing.

 

"This game sucks, bye"

"PvP is getting care-beared, I'm done"

"There is no content"

 

While I see plenty of people willing to patiently wait for all of this to be patched, while it is currently being hotfixed.

 

Even with 500k subs, this game will be fine.

 

and it's people like you, who continually make excuses for poor game design that allow game developers (speciafically MMOS) to release flopping piles of podo.

 

you represent the people who are willing to spend money to beta test a game that will eventually fizzle out because of lack of content, which is due to the low sub base (500k in your example) which could have been avoided had the game been tested and released with less bugs, which would have freed up customer service (the HORRID CS is another reason people are leaving) which would have lead to MORE subs, referring even MORE subs, leading to MILLIONS of players, leading to more content and a happy customer base.

 

why would anyone pay for a game, pay a monthly fee and "patiently wait for ALL this to be patched"

 

YOU ARE FRIGGING PAYING FOR THIS

 

apply your logic to just about ANY other business model and that business model will fail utterly.

 

example:

 

you pay for a car AND a monthly fee to drive it, only problem is it can't go over 20MPH, the breaks and gas don't always work and sometimes your electric windows don't work either.

 

your solution would be to keep paying and wait for it to get fixed.

 

mine would be to flip the car maker the bird, cancel my monthly car subscription and learn to never to business with them again.

 

of course i was one of the stupid ones who actually had faith in BW/EA and did a six month sub.....

[Icebaron]

Anyone to the game new? I see people leaving, but where are all the new guys looking for help on something?

 

nm, found them. They are in the newbie forums...duh!

Edited February 29, 2012 by Icebaron

[zrinking]

i was one of the stupid ones.

 

Edited February 29, 2012 by zrinking

[Spell_Bound]

and it's people like you, who continually make excuses for poor game design that allow game developers (speciafically MMOS) to release flopping piles of podo.

 

you represent the people who are willing to spend money to beta test a game that will eventually fizzle out because of lack of content, which is due to the low sub base (500k in your example) which could have been avoided had the game been tested and released with less bugs, which would have freed up customer service (the HORRID CS is another reason people are leaving) which would have lead to MORE subs, referring even MORE subs, leading to MILLIONS of players, leading to more content and a happy customer base.

 

why would anyone pay for a game, pay a monthly fee and "patiently wait for ALL this to be patched"

 

YOU ARE FRIGGING PAYING FOR THIS

 

apply your logic to just about ANY other business model and that business model will fail utterly.

 

example:

 

you pay for a car AND a monthly fee to drive it, only problem is it can't go over 20MPH, the breaks and gas don't always work and sometimes your electric windows don't work either.

 

your solution would be to keep paying and wait for it to get fixed.

 

mine would be to flip the car maker the bird, cancel my monthly car subscription and learn to never to business with them again.

 

of course i was one of the stupid ones who actually had faith in BW/EA and did a six month sub.....

 

15 bucks a month is not breaking my bank, unlike a car like that would.

MMO's, from the very first, have been some of the buggiest messes at launch. There is a reason they are not on consoles. These things take time.

 

I'm not saying I might not unsub for a while and wait for more content, but I am not bored yet.

 

To put it simply, BW has done a better launch job than any other MMO I've played, and is handling some of the situations better than what I have seen a new game do in a while.

 

Give this game time to stay steady out, instead of wanting perfection right off the bat. Using your car reference, a first model car is never quite right. It takes until the third or fourth generation of that car for it to really make a name for itself.

[SangraelWoW]

15 bucks a month is not breaking my bank, unlike a car like that would.

MMO's, from the very first, have been some of the buggiest messes at launch. There is a reason they are not on consoles. These things take time.

 

I'm not saying I might not unsub for a while and wait for more content, but I am not bored yet.

 

To put it simply, BW has done a better launch job than any other MMO I've played, and is handling some of the situations better than what I have seen a new game do in a while.

 

Give this game time to stay steady out, instead of wanting perfection right off the bat. Using your car reference, a first model car is never quite right. It takes until the third or fourth generation of that car for it to really make a name for itself.

 

I'd like to point you to Rift. An incredibly launch (minus the problems with server queue's), very few bugs, very feature rich at launch.

[Zolexus]

15 bucks a month is not breaking my bank, unlike a car like that would.

MMO's, from the very first, have been some of the buggiest messes at launch. There is a reason they are not on consoles. These things take time.

 

I'm not saying I might not unsub for a while and wait for more content, but I am not bored yet.

 

To put it simply, BW has done a better launch job than any other MMO I've played, and is handling some of the situations better than what I have seen a new game do in a while.

 

Give this game time to stay steady out, instead of wanting perfection right off the bat. Using your car reference, a first model car is never quite right. It takes until the third or fourth generation of that car for it to really make a name for itself.

 

So a new car manufacturer brings out a brand new car model but without a radio, without a GPS, with auto gearing but missing a gear every so many times, without anti-slip, without servo wheel.

 

They ask you exactly the same amount of money for all the other models that has exactly those things anyway.

 

You'll pay for that new model cuz their 4th generation will eventually have everything all the rest has?

 

Bullcrap. There are some things missing in Swtor that should've been there. Guild banks, a bit of customization for the space ship, bigger variety of endgame gear (and preferably better looking), a LFG tool (if you're running a themepark MMO in any case), a better PvP, dual spec, their very own legacy system for crying out loud, etc.

 

If you still wish to deny that, then you're ignorant, sorry.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Zolexus

[Spell_Bound]

So a new car manufacturer brings out a brand new car model but without a radio, without a GPS, with auto gearing but missing a gear every so many times, without anti-slip, without servo wheel.

 

They ask you exactly the same amount of money for all the other models that has exactly those things anyway.

 

You'll pay for that new model cuz their 4th generation will eventually have everything all the rest has?

 

Bullcrap. There are some things missing in Swtor that should've been there. Guild banks, a bit of customization for the space ship, bigger variety of endgame gear (and preferably better looking), a LFG tool (if you're running a themepark MMO in any case), a better PvP etc.

 

If you still wish to deny that, then you're ignorant, sorry.

 

I'm not saying the game is perfect, by any means.

 

Yes, it is missing a few (to some, a lot) of things, but to me, the game is still enjoyable.

 

All of the things you have listed are not -essential- to gameplay, but I would be willing to bet they will come.

 

Again, this is a $60 game with a $15 a month fee, not a car. So no, the money being spent here does not bother me.

[lethal_ghost]

I have un subbed just getting bored at 50 PvP has been a let down. Will check back for new content in the future I recon

 

And my server has deffinatly got less people active on it. Un subbed or just logging in less but less people

[Jederix]

It won't.

 

 

And yes, I have been consistent with my complaints. I'm sorry if you feel like that means I have an axe to grind.

 

Voicing your opinion is one thing. Seeking out every thread on the forums and posting the same crap week after week is another.

[Zolexus]

I'm not saying the game is perfect, by any means.

 

Yes, it is missing a few (to some, a lot) of things, but to me, the game is still enjoyable.

 

All of the things you have listed are not -essential- to gameplay, but I would be willing to bet they will come.

 

Again, this is a $60 game with a $15 a month fee, not a car. So no, the money being spent here does not bother me.

 

Exactly my point, you're not the only one still enjoying this game, but because of all these mistakes BW made, how long will it last when the new MMOs get here? Which will all have those items I mentioned, which will all perfect their game before launching it and not making people pay for practically a beta? How will you remember Swtor when you start to play that game?

 

Will you be so stubborn to stick to swtor? Maybe you will, but others won't. Those enjoying this game now are probably not enjoying it enough to pass on the next best thing.

 

Which is very unfortunate as I too was very hyped about this game.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Zolexus

[Blackardin]

There is no "big drop in subs". That is mostly conjecture made up by people dissatisfied with the game. The servers expanded their population quota. There is no indication, from any available source that there has been a large exodus from this game.

 

The vast majority of people leaving, taken from a sampling on this very board, seems to indicate that it is hard core players that seek to race to fifty and engulf end game raiding seeking heavy challenge and complex mechanics.

 

For my own opinion, their key to success is to stay the course and ignore the few detractors. Bring MMORPGs back from the expectation of "Call of Duty" type shooters to a casual game designed around the concept of fun and entertainment, not extreme time consumption, Min maxing, and "extreme challenge".

[Andryah]

I'd like to point you to Rift. An incredibly launch (minus the problems with server queue's), very few bugs, very feature rich at launch.

 

Dont forget the random crashes to desktop, many people complaining about graphics performance and glitches.......AND the authenticaiton server hole that you could drive a truck through that was getting peoples accounts hacked by the thousands.

[JonnyLoveMachine]

I'm not saying the game is perfect, by any means.

 

Yes, it is missing a few (to some, a lot) of things, but to me, the game is still enjoyable.

 

All of the things you have listed are not -essential- to gameplay, but I would be willing to bet they will come.

 

Again, this is a $60 game with a $15 a month fee, not a car. So no, the money being spent here does not bother me.

 

I just can't get over the fact you are justifying the cost for something you admit is broken. I will give you my paypal and you can just handm e 15 a month. I mean.. it isn't that much.. no big deal. I will do little to almost nothing for it and you can pray one day I might come visit. But just keep paying me blindly till that day happens.

 

Just amazes me you are willing to pay for a broken product. People like you are the reason they think its ok to release games unfinished. They know some idiot somewhere will keep paying to play regardless of the state its in when its released.

[Blackardin]

and it's people like you, who continually make excuses for poor game design that allow game developers (speciafically MMOS) to release flopping piles of podo.

 

Although this was very eloquently put, LOL, it proceeds from a false premise, and a false understanding of how business and MMORPGs function.

 

It is not a shooter like "call of duty" where the game is released complete in all aspects. It is an ongoing MMORPG that launches as a shell then continues to add content over the next 5 to 10 years. To expect a finish product is to expect an entire different genre.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Blackardin

[Spell_Bound]

There is no "big drop in subs". That is mostly conjecture made up by people dissatisfied with the game. The servers expanded their population quota. There is no indication, from any available source that there has been a large exodus from this game.

 

The vast majority of people leaving, taken from a sampling on this very board, seems to indicate that it is hard core players that seek to race to fifty and engulf end game raiding seeking heavy challenge and complex mechanics.

 

For my own opinion, their key to success is to stay the course and ignore the few detractors. Bring MMORPGs back from the expectation of "Call of Duty" type shooters to a casual game designed around the concept of fun and entertainment, not extreme time consumption, Min maxing, and "extreme challenge".

 

Exactly why I still enjoy the game

[ferroz]

for me it is quite simple, i received absolutely HORRID customer service.

 

and i believe many others have as well.

 

i subitted a ticket, waited over THREE weeks only to get a reply that i did not provide enough information.

My tickets usually get responded to the day of now.

 

I'm actually bit curious if they have a filter system that allows them to put priority on folks who enter good information over people who repeatedly enter bad/incomplete info.

 

Most of the responses I get are the standard form "forwarded to the appropriate department" since they aren't things that require any sort of direct GM action. A couple of them mention that the issue has been added to the bug database with an issue number.

Edited February 29, 2012 by ferroz

[JonnyLoveMachine]

Although this was very eloquently put, LOL, it proceeds from a false premise, and a false understanding of how business and MMORPGs function.

 

It is not a shooter like "call of duty" where the game is released complete in all aspects. It is an ongoing MMORPG that launches as a shell then continues to add content over the next 5 to 10 years. To expect a finish product is to expect an entire different genre.

 

How much are they paying you to write this? I know for a fact they have people from BW posting in threads such as these to make it seem a lot less drastic as it is.... So my question remains.. How much do they pay PR people, such as yourself?

 

And if you are not a PR person.. How can you logically explain paying for a broken item. Leave out the fact of what it is, etc... and reasonably explain to me how you can justify spending money on something that does not work as intended.

Edited February 29, 2012 by JonnyLoveMachine

[Spell_Bound]

How much are they paying you to write this? I know for a fact they have people from BW posting in threads such as these to make it seem a lot less drastic as it is.... So my question remains.. How much do they pay PR people, such as yourself?

 

And if you are not a PR person.. How can you logically explain paying for a broken item. Leave out the fact of what it is, etc... and reasonably explain to me how you can justify spending money on something that does not work as intended.

 

You must be new to an MMO birth.

[Derekloffin]

Why do people always use seriously faulty car analogies? Why?! Why?!

 

 

Seriously people, you cannot make an analogy that has any kind of validity to anything other than another software product that is in continuous development. Anything in the hardware arena has real world constraints of materials, size, production limits and such that completely destroy any analogy to an MMO.

[Blackardin]

My tickets usually get responded to the day of now.

 

I'm actually bit curious if they have a filter system that allows them to put priority on folks who enter good information over people who repeatedly enter bad/incomplete info.

 

Most of the responses I get are the standard form "forwarded to the appropriate department" since they aren't things that require any sort of direct GM action. A couple of them mention that the issue has been added to the bug database with an issue number.

 

Exactly.

 

Each complaint that I've read (granted, not a scientific sampling, but sampling none the less) eventually boiled down to excessive expectations (demand to restore a level 29 blue immediately), or user error in reporting the issue.

 

I've put in 8 tickets. Every one was escalated within 24 hours. That is company policy. My grand accomplishment in this area was that I deleted my main one morning (oops). I came here, read up on the proper procedure for reporting, included the proper keyword. I received a Whisper in game from a customer service rep that asked, very politely, if it would be ok for me to log off for five minutes so that they could restore my character. It took six hours, on a Saturday, to get me back up and running.

 

I give their customer service high marks.

[OldBenSmokin]

You must be new to an MMO birth.

 

Haha. I thought same thing.

 

 

Believe it! People have different opinions about the game. It's like arguing politics for more and more people.

Edited February 29, 2012 by OldBenSmokin

[AcerLerxt]

 

To put it simply, BW has done a better launch job than any other MMO I've played, and is handling some of the situations better than what I have seen a new game do in a while.

.

 

Then you don't have much experience.

 

The initial launch was decent-- long login queues (2-5+ hours on my server) weren't unexpected by MMO vets, but I wouldn't call them evidence of a first rate launch.

 

However, things quickly went downhill from there.

 

Every patch has either not fixed something that was supposed to be fixed, or broken something that was previously not broken. It's BY FAR been the worst showing of patch QA that I've ever seen.

 

Customer service has been a nightmare-- just the idiocy of saying "oh, that patch note that's been up for 2 weeks on the PTS and also passed the Live Push vetting was actually a mistake" was staggering. Seeing in-game responses of "please check the forums to see if there's a solution to your problem. Ticket closed" just doesn't hack it when someone's character is stuck and unaccessible.

 

Promised game mechanics have been a disaster-- crafting literally serves no purpose, other than the ridiculously overpowered initial biomed schematics which have since been corrected. Now, it's pointless.

 

Ilum was touted as world pvp, but began as an exercise in point flipping that actually disincentivized killing opponents, then devolved into a bugged mess of zerg on zerg, and is now about to be rendered completely moot.

 

Bug/Exploit responses have been horrifically slow, and/or shockingly ineffective. Frozen shockwater, Voidstar door glitching, Ilum turret farming, Huttball instant death pulls, the entire "stuff not counting toward quests" bugs, the Operations bugs (they fixed Soa... nvm, they broke Soa worse.) The list goes on and on.

 

On top of all that, the endgame design is just... poor. Gear progression makes no sense in terms of time spent vs. benefit gained. Endgame crafting is a joke. Endgame PvE is a joke (my guild of pvp-geared pvp'ers cleared all hard mode operations bosses, minus the aforementioned buggy Soa, in less than 20 total raid-hours.) Endgame PvP is a joke-- no rating system, no full group queues, no player investment in bases, battlekeeps, etc, Ilum, etc.

 

Daniel Erickson was quoted as saying "we're betting heavily on the re-roll game" at one point early last year, and that was clearly truthful. Unfortunately, re-rolling for a new story doesn't even work for some of the KoToR fans, since the amount of time you spend in your class story pales in comparison to the time you spend doing the same stupid quests you've already done on Taris, or Balmorra, or Belsavis.

 

Anyway, point is the subscription loss, however slight or severe, is a symptom of the disease-- this game is a poor excuse for an MMO. As someone else pointed out, if it'd been released as KoToR3, With MMO Elements, at least it would've been branded and billed correctly.

 

As it is, all we got was a poorly delivered, uninspired MMO that's a waste of subscription money.

Edited February 29, 2012 by AcerLerxt

[JonnyLoveMachine]

You must be new to an MMO birth.

 

You didn't answer my question. The problem is because you can't. You can not logically explain paying for a broken product that does not work as described.

 

The day you can answer my question logically.. Is the day I will resubscribe to this "mmo".

Edited February 29, 2012 by JonnyLoveMachine