windzro Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 27 raids67 dungeons8 battlegrounds yeah...i think WOW has more endgame content... i wonder how long it took them to get that much? oh nevermind no one cares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 LOL omg i forgot about those! awsome you never had the "why my abilties wont work? " hunter in your guild? EQUIP YOUR ARROWS FOOL ! lol , those were goodtimes i admit, BWL and neffy will always hold a special spot in my heart yeah man...i can actually remember we had a hunter who forgot every single fight to switch i can remember also the mages running LOS so they don't polymorph healers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 i was just saying that i never had to do any nr crunching to achieve what i wanted....if you got a prob with that dude...its yours not mine and it wasnt ironic at all...if you know what irony is wich servers what purpose? other than comparing your epeen against mine that is.... if you read between the lines, what i was hinting at , was the fact that you had to min/max too friggin much, and with the introductions of haste and other stats , it sometimes was more number crunching than i wanted to play a game i was supposed to be relaxing with (maybe it relaxes people that like number crunching, it just was not my case) the irony was/is that the comment served no purpose other than to show me that you didnt actually get what i meant see ? we did learn something after all! and no i dont have a problem with "that" other than i feel it was unnecessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) 27 raids 67 dungeons 8 battlegrounds yeah...i think WOW has more endgame content... i wonder how long it took them to get that much? oh nevermind no one cares... its not endgame content if it doesnt give me tier gear or requires me to have top end gear to complete... so out of those 67 dungeons, take 8 or 9 on heroic, discard the rest same for raids, take 1-3 current ones, discard the rest battlegrounds are in reality 5 since ab and WSG only got reskinned versions of the same kind of battleground , so its those 2 , plus alterac , and tol barad since no one goes to northrend anymore.... so its just "content" , not "Endgame content" wich wow has a lot of ( if you consider soloing old instances for lulz and achievemnts content, then more power to you, i dont ) PS: i have a friend that actually likes 2 manning ICC and old stuff he never saw with a friend, to him, that is actually a lot of content left "to see" , to me i have no reason to go back since i saw that stuff back when it was current, i guess i can sort of understand his point of view, but to me , tor has about the same amount of "current" endgame as Cata/current wow Edited March 2, 2012 by LaVolpex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 27 raids 67 dungeons 8 battlegrounds yeah...i think WOW has more endgame content... i wonder how long it took them to get that much? oh nevermind no one cares... Op should have named the thread relevent end game content is about equal in WoW and tor. Which is true The op is correct in his statement. Wow has never had more than a couple raids at a time that were of any importantace to end game and a hand full of instances to gear for the raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voorshwa Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I think a lot of the people are complaining there isnt enough to do NOW. Though I will say expecting a 2 month old game to have remotely as much content as an 8 year old game is silly. A new MMO should NEVER have all of their end game raiding content completed by a large population of their players in less than 2 months. THere shouldn't be a large population of max level players in ONE WEEK after release. This is extremely poor design and complete lack of foresight. Oh and to debunk the OP here is what I can do in WoW every day. 1. Dailies 2. Raid all content (if I choose to) 3. Enjoy my professions to get the best items/pets/mounts 4. Play the AH game and make lots of money. No you can't do this in SWTOR, quit lying to people. 5. Level a much larger amount of unique alts. Not the same 4 classes regardless of faction I choose. 6. Run diverse Battle Grounds where I actually get to choose the BG I want to play, not have it chosen for me even when I would rather gut myself than play Hutt Ball again. 7. A lot of times there are some kind of Seasonal Event going on that I can participate in. 8. I can get a group together and go kill all of the Iconic 'Heroes' on the other factions side. 9. Play with my guildmates to attain new abilities for my guild via leveling up our guild. A fun activity to do together. 10. I can force World PvP by picking on a Questing Hub and forcing the high levels on the other side 'Come to the Rescue'. These are just 10 things I came up with off the top of my head. I'm sure people that play more actively could come up with much more. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 For me, its not about the amount... its that they created this unique leveling experience only to abandon it completely and throw together a rehashed, sad, boring typical mmo grind for end game. Disconnected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 A new MMO should NEVER have all of their end game raiding content completed by a large population of their players in less than 2 months. THere shouldn't be a large population of max level players in ONE WEEK after release. This is extremely poor design and complete lack of foresight. Oh and to debunk the OP here is what I can do in WoW every day. 1. Dailies - there are dailies here argument is moot 2. Raid all content (if I choose to) - you can do that, but we both know you aint 3. Enjoy my professions to get the best items/pets/mounts - you can do that here too! 4. Play the AH game and make lots of money. No you can't do this in SWTOR, quit lying to people. - and? money to spend on what exactly? lots of stuff ot spend it on in wow lol 5. Level a much larger amount of unique alts. Not the same 4 classes regardless of faction I choose. - you mean level 8 classes (the same amount of AC here) on the SAME zones with the SAME storylines? at least here i get dif storylines 4 times 6. Run diverse Battle Grounds where I actually get to choose the BG I want to play, not have it chosen for me even when I would rather gut myself than play Hutt Ball again. - fair point, they already said they are letting us single Q to whatever we want with 1.2, moot argument 7. A lot of times there are some kind of Seasonal Event going on that I can participate in. - i very much agree with this one actually, i do miss the seasonal stuff...but then again, we have only gone thru valentines yet and id rather them fix the other stuff first 8. I can get a group together and go kill all of the Iconic 'Heroes' on the other factions side. - wich in reality how many times you did? im guessing one for the bear achieve...thats it stop lying 9. Play with my guildmates to attain new abilities for my guild via leveling up our guild. A fun activity to do together. - sorry but repeating dailys and grinding the same old dungeons for a few guild points is not my idea of encouragin fun guildie quality time, but maybe we could use a similar system here, even it its just mounts and fluff much like wow 10. I can force World PvP by picking on a Questing Hub and forcing the high levels on the other side 'Come to the Rescue'. - wich in reality is VERY discouraged in wow given the powerful guard that now occupy 90% of quest hubs out there These are just 10 things I came up with off the top of my head. I'm sure people that play more actively could come up with much more. V fixed it for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Oh and to debunk the OP here is what I can do in WoW every day. 1. Dailies - None at launch 2. Raid all content (if I choose to) - Molten Core and Onyxia at launch 3. Enjoy my professions to get the best items/pets/mounts - at launch best items were T0 (dungeons) and T1 (raids) and "Warlord" (PvP) at launch, not craftable 4. Play the AH game and make lots of money. No you can't do this in SWTOR, quit lying to people. - You can do this in TOR, game is played a bit differently and not quite to the extreme that WoW is now. Then again, WoW didn't even have linked AHs until after 1yr post launch 5. Level a much larger amount of unique alts. Not the same 4 classes regardless of faction I choose. - My heal spec Sorc feels nothing like my DPS Assassin nor does my tank spec Jug feel like my dps spec marauder. One could argue that druid cats and rogues are the same (melee dps relying on stealth, attacks from behind, etc.) or that Shadow priests, warlocks and mages are all dps casters. 6. Run diverse Battle Grounds where I actually get to choose the BG I want to play, not have it chosen for me even when I would rather gut myself than play Hutt Ball again. - None at launch. Just a stupid ladder system that promoted account sharing if you wanted to get Warlord/Marshall gear 7. A lot of times there are some kind of Seasonal Event going on that I can participate in. - Possible point. I can't recall when Blizz introduced the first holidays. They launched at end of Nov, they maybe had in their first Christmas themed one the following month but, I honestly don't recall. Then again, plenty of people during and since beta have argued keep RL holidays out and the devs (iirc) have expressed some interest in adding SW themed holiday stuff 8. I can get a group together and go kill all of the Iconic 'Heroes' on the other factions side. - Don't recall if you could at launch or not. I remember attacking undercity a couple of times on Alleria (PvE server) but, that was at least after launch of BC. 9. Play with my guildmates to attain new abilities for my guild via leveling up our guild. A fun activity to do together. - No guild leveling at launch. Didn't come about until several years later. 10. I can force World PvP by picking on a Questing Hub and forcing the high levels on the other side 'Come to the Rescue'. - I don't play on a PvP server here so can't speak to that but, on PvE servers on WoW, the level of guards and their spawn rates made that difficult. Can't recall if they made PvE quest npc unattackable at some point. These are just 10 things I came up with off the top of my head. I'm sure people that play more actively could come up with much more. V My comments in red show how much of all those awesome things you can do now that you could not do at launch. WoW evolved over time as will this game. I remember people griping that came from games like SWG, AC2 and EQ that griped about all the things that WoW lacked. WoW when it launched, after four years of development, offered very similar amounts of content that TOR has. You were expecting something with three years of development time to have similar amounts of content quantity and polish that something enjoying near 11 years of development has ... understandably if you set your expectations that high you would be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 My comments in red show how much of all those awesome things you can do now that you could not do at launch. WoW evolved over time as will this game. But WoW evolved by bringing new things to the table for the genre. TOR is going to have to evolve to bring things we already had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 But WoW evolved by bringing new things to the table for the genre. TOR is going to have to evolve to bring things we already had. TLDR-- Re-invent the wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercenx Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Basically what you are saying is that WOW has little to do endgame and SWTOR just copied that model...ya that was brilliant on their part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clucker Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 ToR OPS are incredibly bland, the mechanics are beyond boring. Granted BW is new at this so I can only assume they will add some exciting mechanics, but all of the OPS have insanely bland mechanics. The only difficult boss that my guild has encountered is Bonethrasher. And that is because that fight is buggy as all get out. Random spinning, but swiping original location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 But WoW evolved by bringing new things to the table for the genre. TOR is going to have to evolve to bring things we already had. Here is what a major Blizzard employee, Bashiok, thinks of what they brought to the table: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3595372038#11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Just because U don't like watching stuff like that don't think others don't aswell...i'm very sure that the majority of players watches video's even if its just to find out shard locations etc. So in this case u dont really represent a majority. Thats a guess but i'm sure its a good one... Ok so watching boss vid takes the challenge? thats what u think? hhmm knowing how something works doesnt make u actually able to do it. I know how Engine works...could i Build one? i doubt it...would it be no challenge? i doubt it... I find it ironic that you want more challenge in the end-game, yet you can't run fast enough to watch a boss fight video on youtube that exists solely to explain how to remove as much of the challenge from the fight as possible. Boss fight videos are "how we did it" videos. They usually also are chock full of "don't do this" or "don't stand here" pointers. Their chief purpose to exist is to remove as much challenge as possible from the content. You say you want challenge but you do everything possible to remove the challenge. Just what do you want the developers to do to add challenge that cannot be explained away on a youtube video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebaron Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Here is what a major Blizzard employee, Bashiok, thinks of what they brought to the table: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3595372038#11 I've always believed WoW stole ideas from other games, made them their own and improved on them. I just wish Bioware stole some of the great ideas from other games like WoW did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I've always believed WoW stole ideas from other games, made them their own and improved on them. I just wish Bioware stole some of the great ideas from other games like WoW did. THey did. They just spent most of their time on voice over for quests and forgot to steal the rest before EA pushed out the game. Game should have been in development still and not been released until the annoying game breaking cooldowns and lag is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wow if you had to do this to be successful you must have done something awfully wrong It's common knowledge that back when Vanilla content was relevant, you had to have the appropriate resist gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 27 raids 67 dungeons 8 battlegrounds yeah...i think WOW has more endgame content... i wonder how long it took them to get that much? oh nevermind no one cares... How many of those award relevant gear or even useful points to be spent on relevant gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It's common knowledge that back when Vanilla content was relevant, you had to have the appropriate resist gear. Yes, and they have already admitted that it was a flawed model. They moved away from the resistance model and are in fact removing the concept of Spell Resistance (and spell penetration) in MoP completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Here is what a major Blizzard employee, Bashiok, thinks of what they brought to the table: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3595372038#11 Innovation is a strange word - it means different things to different people. And if you notice I didn't use that word. I used "evolve" which is exactly what WoW did (and what Bashiok said.) They evolved the genre, and yes, they contributed to new standards in it. To some people, that's innovation. "Innovation" is an entirely subjective term. So can you point out where TOR is evolving from the best-of-breed? They've certainly evolved storytelling (not innovated), there's no denying that. Wether you like it or not is another thread. But what else? What else has been done, or going to be done to truly evolve the genre, not evolve the game itself into something that existed a few years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes, and they have already admitted that it was a flawed model. They moved away from the resistance model and are in fact removing the concept of Spell Resistance (and spell penetration) in MoP completely. Which saddens me... but they describe it as not working in World of Warcraft - but can fully imagine it working when designed into the game differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 A new MMO should NEVER have all of their end game raiding content completed by a large population of their players in less than 2 months. THere shouldn't be a large population of max level players in ONE WEEK after release. This is extremely poor design and complete lack of foresight. False. Only a very small portion of the playerbase was max level at the end of a week. Please do not exaggerate. Oh and to debunk the OP here is what I can do in WoW every day. 1. Dailies TOR has these. 2. Raid all content (if I choose to) You won't choose to because 95% of all of WoW's raid content is irrelevant, meaning it awards nothing that is usable to you now. It's not even worthwhile to sell on the AH since most of it is BoP. 3. Enjoy my professions to get the best items/pets/mounts False. While professions aren't too bad at the beginning of an expansion in WoW - aside from gems/buckles/enchants - crafting in WoW is fairless useless. Hows Alchemy treating you? It's been virtually gutted you know. 4. Play the AH game and make lots of money. No you can't do this in SWTOR, quit lying to people. I haven't had any problem making money from the market. I'll tell you right now that while I don't care for the market UI, I'm absolutely happy that I don't have to sift through 500 pages of enchanting materials listed individually. 5. Level a much larger amount of unique alts. Not the same 4 classes regardless of faction I choose. This is so ignorant that I should just ignore you right now. 6. Run diverse Battle Grounds where I actually get to choose the BG I want to play, not have it chosen for me even when I would rather gut myself than play Hutt Ball again. Pathetic thing to complain about. If not for Huttball, your queue time would be quite comparable to WoW's queue times. I suppose you don't remember how long it took to get in an AV back in the day. On Aggrammar pre-cross server, sometimes it would take more than 24 hours just for an AV to fire up. Huttball being same faction means that you can get more action faster overall. 7. A lot of times there are some kind of Seasonal Event going on that I can participate in. Developers have already stated that seasonals are on their way. 8. I can get a group together and go kill all of the Iconic 'Heroes' on the other factions side. What did that accomplish? It's not like you got to capture the city. 9. Play with my guildmates to attain new abilities for my guild via leveling up our guild. A fun activity to do together. Yeah, because 10% of your coin loot going to the guild bank is so uber. Guild leveling needs more work in WoW. 10. I can force World PvP by picking on a Questing Hub and forcing the high levels on the other side 'Come to the Rescue'. That type of behavior is generally regarded as a jerkish type of behavior and during my 7years of WoW experience, I found that most of the players that "tried to start something at a low level quest hub" generally disappear the moment a high level lands from the flightpath. These are just 10 things I came up with off the top of my head. I'm sure people that play more actively could come up with much more. V Keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Which saddens me... but they describe it as not working in World of Warcraft - but can fully imagine it working when designed into the game differently. The only way spell resistance will work in a gear driven MMO is if it is provided by a mechanic (gem/augmentation/AA point system) that only provides spell resistance at the cost of no other power-related stat. Spell resistance failed in WoW because it displaced other stats on gear. Generally, equipped spell resistance made you do less DPS - so it turned into a balance nightmare until DPS reached a point where you could ignore the spell damage and kill the boss before the healers ran out of mana. If spell resistance came in the form of a unique augment slot that displaced no stats but only provided protection to one element at a time, then spell resistance could be useful. There's a number of "ifs" there and even then, it can have a dreadful impact on the PvP side of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 27 raids 67 dungeons 8 battlegrounds yeah...i think WOW has more endgame content... i wonder how long it took them to get that much? oh nevermind no one cares... If you are going to post about WOW, actually play the game. WOW doesn't have 67 dungeons of endgame content. Not even 1/10 th of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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