Seriously, please try playing an Op before whining about them being OP.

[hulkweazel]

Please keep in mind that I DON'T have a level 50 Op, at least not yet. I do have a level 50 Powertech tank though, leveling an Op as an alt. As a PT I never had any problem with them as their damage barely dented me. I love playing my Op because it's such a fun class, but it's very clear that the class has issues. There is a HUGE difference in power level and flexibility when I switch from PvPing with my PT and then switching over to my Op (Yes, I recognize there's a level difference, but even comparing when I PvPed at the same level with my PT). I wouldn't say "underpowered", a better word would be "limited". Let me explain a few things:

 

- One entire tree is completely avoided by Ops (Lethality). It wasn't designed for Ops and people that try using it say it's just so intuitive. It tries to fit ranged abilities into a class better suited and designed for melee, for starters.

 

- Ops have no mobility at all. While in Voidstar and Civil War Ops can get away with this disadvantage since there isn't a lot of movement there, it is a clear disadvantage in the most common BG, Huttball.

 

- Heal-spec Ops have very little survivability. Our main escape ability is on a three minute cooldown, completely prevents healing unless you spec deep in a non-healing tree, and is easily negated by anyone who knows what they're doing by placing DoTs on the Op. Evasion is pretty much worthless since it doesn't negate all attacks, meaning the only two abilities with any real mileage for survivability are Shield Probe and Flash Bang. Compare this to Sorcs who have a bubble, AoE knockback-root, and sprint all on extremely short cooldowns.

 

Again, I'm saying this as someone who has a 50 PT. The problems Ops bring up ARE real. Why do you think a class this fun to play, and in MMO history has been one of the most popular somehow ended up being one of the LEAST popular in this game?

[exphryl]

Why do you think a class this fun to play, and in MMO history has been one of the most popular somehow ended up being one of the LEAST popular in this game?

 

Lightsabers.

[hulkweazel]

Lightsabers.

Funny, I didn't know Mercs/Commandos used lightsabers.

[Krunkstar]

I agree, and I only have a mid level imp alt. Scoundrel and Operative are the same. The reason why so many people whine about operatives is because they rarely have a scoundrel on their team. This is coming from a gunslinger who normally is the only one in my servers largest guild at 50.

 

Same goes for inquisitors, not a whole lot of consulars, therefor they SEEM to be OP.

[ThisguyYay]

I truly HATE to say this one, and let it be known, but i guess word will get out eventually ... Any healing class can remove our DoT's off them, corrosive nade and dart ... Idk if you have to have your debuff removing ability specc'd or not, but I have many times had DoT's removed off my targets. This can totally **** up the Agent general tree.

[OdamanPrime]

Our heal spec op outheals everyone. Respec and l2p

[hulkweazel]

Our heal spec op outheals everyone. Respec and l2p

Please learn how to read before posting.

[Mongrul]

im a healer operative and i cant be killed unless 4 people are on me. its fun and i talk trash in general cause i can. they deliberately target me instead of doing objectives so 4 of them are chasing me and that frees up my team to score. mind manipulation works good on tor players

[cosmov]

Our heal spec op outheals everyone. Respec and l2p

 

Mercenary healer says hello.

[Slurmez]

Please keep in mind that I DON'T have a level 50 Op, at least not yet. I do have a level 50 Powertech tank though, leveling an Op as an alt. As a PT I never had any problem with them as their damage barely dented me. I love playing my Op because it's such a fun class, but it's very clear that the class has issues. There is a HUGE difference in power level and flexibility when I switch from PvPing with my PT and then switching over to my Op (Yes, I recognize there's a level difference, but even comparing when I PvPed at the same level with my PT). I wouldn't say "underpowered", a better word would be "limited". Let me explain a few things:

 

- One entire tree is completely avoided by Ops (Lethality). It wasn't designed for Ops and people that try using it say it's just so intuitive. It tries to fit ranged abilities into a class better suited and designed for melee, for starters.

 

- Ops have no mobility at all. While in Voidstar and Civil War Ops can get away with this disadvantage since there isn't a lot of movement there, it is a clear disadvantage in the most common BG, Huttball.

 

- Heal-spec Ops have very little survivability. Our main escape ability is on a three minute cooldown, completely prevents healing unless you spec deep in a non-healing tree, and is easily negated by anyone who knows what they're doing by placing DoTs on the Op. Evasion is pretty much worthless since it doesn't negate all attacks, meaning the only two abilities with any real mileage for survivability are Shield Probe and Flash Bang. Compare this to Sorcs who have a bubble, AoE knockback-root, and sprint all on extremely short cooldowns.

 

Again, I'm saying this as someone who has a 50 PT. The problems Ops bring up ARE real. Why do you think a class this fun to play, and in MMO history has been one of the most popular somehow ended up being one of the LEAST popular in this game?

 

You cant avoid lethality tree and then complain about mobility as thats the "movement" tree with impairement and dots.

 

You "state" that the class is better suited for melee, all of your issues are down to you and your locked in mentality

[ThisguyYay]

You cant avoid lethality tree and then complain about mobility as thats the "movement" tree with impairement and dots.

 

You "state" that the class is better suited for melee, all of your issues are down to you and your locked in mentality

 

Again, lethality is almost garbage though, as you all the DoT's you put on someone can be removed ... So specc'ing up lethality tree to the options you suggest may not be worth it. Then what do you sacrifice in any tree to get that high up in lethality tree over healing tree ? You can't be any kind of a decent healer without surgical probe/precision.

Edited February 26, 2012 by ThisguyYay

[Dissentus]

You cant avoid lethality tree and then complain about mobility as thats the "movement" tree with impairement and dots.

 

You "state" that the class is better suited for melee, all of your issues are down to you and your locked in mentality

 

As someone who plays multiple classes, both stealth classes at that, he is completely correct on the issues.

[veyl]

I'd rather play my Ops healer over my Sorc healer any day of the week.

 

No mobility at all? Couldn't even believe that you typed that. It's the most mobile healer in the game. When you hit 50 and are geared, you'll understand why that statement you made is pretty laughable.

[hulkweazel]

I'd rather play my Ops healer over my Sorc healer any day of the week.

 

No mobility at all? Couldn't even believe that you typed that. It's the most mobile healer in the game. When you hit 50 and are geared, you'll understand why that statement you made is pretty laughable.

Care to explain? If you're going to make statements like this you'd better back them up.

[Sookster]

Our heal spec op outheals everyone. Respec and l2p

 

HAHA no, granted I can survive against half a team at times when shield probe and evasion are playing nice along with enough TA procs for surgical probe, but actually healing teammates- a sorc does a much better job of it, even mercs with their buffable heals. Operative/scounderal heals are good for healing up spike damage but not sustained damage (we can run out of energy super fast).

[savionen]

I'd rather play my Ops healer over my Sorc healer any day of the week.

 

No mobility at all? Couldn't even believe that you typed that. It's the most mobile healer in the game. When you hit 50 and are geared, you'll understand why that statement you made is pretty laughable.

 

Sorc has Force Run, and more CC.

 

All an Operative has is stealth, and it's not the improved stealth if you're a healer.

[Ganrex]

im a healer operative and i cant be killed unless 4 people are on me. its fun and i talk trash in general cause i can. they deliberately target me instead of doing objectives so 4 of them are chasing me and that frees up my team to score. mind manipulation works good on tor players

 

you are a liar!! the only way i or anybody who actually plays the game would believe you is if you made a youtube video of it. im a SW tank and the most amount of people i can hold off is 3, now i wear heavy armour and you wear medium, i have abilities made for soaking up damage, you have healing abilities. just saying..

[stevesetoe]

Game is designed around team play!

 

Operative/Scoundrel got nerfed cause they could kill people really quick 1v1.

 

Wait what?

 

Discuss.

 

Anyway yeah. I wouldn't say they're OP but they're not joke either.

[Aidank]

Sorc has Force Run, and more CC.

 

All an Operative has is stealth, and it's not the improved stealth if you're a healer.

 

Not to mention a knockback, and a ranged interrupt, and pretty respectably damage at range (for a healer, that is). My sorcerer has far more tools to deal with people as a healer than my operative has.

 

putting a healing spec on a melee class, with almost exclusively melee range tool kit seems like a not very great idea.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Aidank

[CEAF]

For the record, people posting that Op healers are strong are either ignorant or trolling.

 

It's been widely acknowledged for at least a month that the Op healer is by far the weakest in the game in both PvE and PvP. I encourage readers to visit the healing section of the class forum to educate themselves further.

 

The DPS specs are equally bad. There is a very good reason why Operative numbers at 50 are rapidly trending towards 0.

Edited February 27, 2012 by CEAF

[stevesetoe]

For the record, people posting that Op healers are strong are either ignorant or trolling.

 

It's been widely acknowledged for at least a month that the Op healer is by far the weakest in the game in both PvE and PvP. I encourage readers to visit the healing section of the class forum to educate themselves further.

 

There is a very good reason why Operative numbers at 50 are rapidly trending towards 0.

 

Using these forums to educate yourself on the game is like writing MONG on a postit and sticking it on your forehead.

[Demarcc]

you are a liar!! the only way i or anybody who actually plays the game would believe you is if you made a youtube video of it. im a SW tank and the most amount of people i can hold off is 3, now i wear heavy armour and you wear medium, i have abilities made for soaking up damage, you have healing abilities. just saying..

 

I play a Sawbones, Valor 67, battlemaster / rakata geared.

 

What he says *is* true .. kinda. You can indeed run around and kite 3 or 4 BADDIES quite easy as a Smug / IA healer. Most of your heals are instant cast and stacking 2 probes, Cloud on yourself, Using Dodge / DS and EMP spam when needed .. and using terrain (A biggy there) and PvP medpack, Pretty much baddies are easy to kite around.

 

Hell I've had 4 or 5 people beating on me and been allowed to free cast heals on myself (Not a single interrupt)

 

However a *Good* DPS with interrupts and stuns who knows how to use them can lock you down. They wont kill you fast (if at all) but they can force you into a self healing pattern that does your team no good at all. I know sith on my server that will spend the whole game just harassing me .. they will get huge DPS numbers and in turn I'll get huge healing numbers but seldom do we kill each other. They joke about it with me in Ilum that I am great for padding thier stats since I just dont die.

 

Being totally blunt .. unless I'm caught totally unaware or I've decided to die (that happens all the time in huttball .. sometimes healing the ball carrier is just more valuable than healing myself) I'm very hard to kill. It'll take a concerted effort from 2-3 foes to take me out in any reasonable amount of time .. and if I have a guard? You'd better remove me or the guard from the area or your in for a hellish time.

 

This is not a boast .. healers are very hard to kill. Its rare I kill anyone of course unless its a 1 v 1 and I have all the time in the world to slowly chip them down, but thats not my role is it?

 

More than once Myself and a tank have held off 5 or 6+ sith at a point. Guard is (IMO) way too damm good in PvP.

 

Healers are not OP. Guard is. 4 scrubs do not prove a healer is OP. 2 Decent players will destroy a healer. 1 Good player will lock a healer down and either eventually kill them or cripple thier input to the game. Give that healer a tank who knows how to guard and taunt though and the picture is VERY different.

 

Healers = Fine.

 

Guard = Dumb and OP.

[Ich_Bin]

Game is designed around team play!

 

Operative/Scoundrel got nerfed cause they could kill people really quick 1v1.

 

Wait what?

 

Discuss.

 

Anyway yeah. I wouldn't say they're OP but they're not joke either.

 

Yes, the game is designed around teamplay. BUT: The Operative/Scoundrel class (as a DD) is designed so that it can take out single targets quickly and efficiently. That is the one and only strength of the class.

So I think when Bioware decides that their initial design for the Op/Sco was flawed and removes their 1v1 damage, then I would normally expect them to give this class more tools that can help in teamplay situations in return. But they didn't.

 

I agree with the OP.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[stevesetoe]

Yes, the game is designed around teamplay. BUT: The Operative/Scoundrel class (as a DD) is designed so that it can take out single targets quickly and efficiently. That is the one and only strength of the class.

So I think when Bioware decides that their initial design for the Op/Sco was flawed and removes their 1v1 damage, then I would normally expect them to give this class more tools that can help in teamplay situations in return. But they didn't.

 

You clearly missed me making a mockery out of their decision in my post.

It was meant to outline how dumb BW is handling Operative/Scoundrel atm.

 

And I don't even play one.

[Ryotknife]

i dont think ops are overpowered at the moment. i still hate them more than any other class as a pt in pvp, but that is about it. i dont think they need nerfs.

 

however, ops are nowhere even remotely close to UP either except for their healing tree, course everything looks like crap compared to sorcs.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Ryotknife