What if "Star Wars: Episode I" was good?

[Dee-Jay]

I think Episode I is good the way it is.

 

You must be 14 then.

 

To be fair, I can understand why people who didn't grow up before the prequels might feel less opinionated about the matter.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[Zombiecrackers]

I think Episode I is good the way it is.

 

Yea it was allright i didnt see any probs with it ^_^

[ArchFirehaven]

Episode 1 was better than Episode 2...for what that is worth.

 

First off we should get rid of two characters from the storyline as a whole, Qui-Gon and General Grevious. Simply put Qui-Gon does nothing that wouldn't be better served by having Obi-Wan do it.

 

Obi-Wan could have found Anakin, and they could have developed their relationship from Day One with Obi-Wan a fresh and inexperienced Jedi Knight (possibly Yoda's last Padawan and Naboo maybe his first diplomatic assignment). Obi-Wan is accompanied by his astromech droid R2-D2 (a standard issue to all Jedi Knights). Obi-Wan would be the model knight but with a very slight streak of having his own mind in things (he sees things at times from a certain perspective!). You need to make Anakin older, maybe 13 (this makes the Padme thing less creepy). Anakin should be an introvert but can be a technology whiz (he can make 3PO if that is what GL wants). Setup the podrace in a much more simple way, you can still have it for the "flash" but stay from the ridiculous betting and reasoning. (as an example)

 

To gather whatever is needed to leave the planet Obi Wan needs to see a specific person, and since Jedi are not respected in the Outer Rim the best chance to force an impromptu meeting is a the Boonta Eve Podrace. By this point Obi Wan has sense Anakin's potential but is focused at the task at hand. Anakin on the other hand (unknown to Obi Wan) has snuck down to the racetrack and somehow gotten into the race all in an attempt to impress Padme (Anakin may be an introverted slave but he has a reckless streak!). Anakin wins the race, impresses the girl, and is admonished by Obi Wan. However the winnings are enough to free him but not his mother. This is ok however because his mother is going to marry a man who has promised to free her and as a possible Jedi (Obi Wan has agreed to present him to the council despite his antics because he is SOOOO powerful in the force) he could not have her with him anyhow.

 

You can still introduce Maul on Tatooine.

 

The sequence on the capital remains essentially the same with the council is unwilling to allow Anakin to be trained, and Obi Wan is told to take him back to Tatooine. This is despite the fact he still may be the Chosen One and Obi Wan can tell us the audience the basic prophecy. Obi Wan approaches Amidala about her returning to Naboo and states that he will go back with her (this will not be ordered by the Jedi Council) and do what he can for her noble cause and because of a nudging from the Force. Obi Wan has been tasked with taking Anakin home, so he has no choice but to take him first to Naboo. Obi Wan is essentially following the guidance of the force (which has been guiding him much more strongly since finding Anakin).

 

Once on Naboo you eliminate the space battle at the end, you still have the Gungan - Droid battle but with Padme there directing the royal forces while Obi Wan infiltrates the palace. Unbeknownst to Obi Wan, Anakin sneaks off and steals a speeder bike and follows. Obi Wan takes out oodles of droids and enters the throne room. Nute Gunray is not nearly the idiot that he is in my version of the film and he sits in the room somewhat calmly on Amidala's throne as Maul and Obi Wan fight it out (we can totally change how the throne room looks to make this more dramatic).

 

At the end of the fight Anakin runs in (FORESHADOWING!) and this distracts Obi Wan who gets stabbed in the belly. Anakin gets VERY angry and this leads to Anakin releases a tremendous force wave that knocks Maul through a wall and presumably to his death in the falls of Theed. Obi Wan survives obviously. During this time however Nute Gunray escapes, making it back to his droid command ship,

 

At the battle on the plains between the droids and the Gungan/Royal forces, the battle is a stalemate until Amidala discovers some glaring weakness and exploits it (cementing here as an intelligent politician and leader, not to mention holding her own in a fight...Leia anyone?)

 

With his landforces in shambles and no longer in control of the capital the Trade Federation forces retreat from the planet with the blockade broken.

 

Back at the Jedi Temple two things occur. First Obi Wan uses some old Jedi tradition/law to force the Jedi council to allow his training of Anakin, reinforced by the fact that going untrained would have dire consequences considering what Anakin did to Maul in a fit of rage. More importantly now knowing that the Sith have returned it would be unwise to give them such a powerful recruit (FORESHADOWING!). They also let slip that Maul's body was never found though with those powerful waters who knows....they have no way to know if he is dead. I would not reveal the rule of two here, I would allow Maul to do it somehow in the second film.

 

Happy times at Naboo and we get our celebration.

 

The reason to get rid of Qui-Gon is that he provides NOTHING that Obi Wan could not do and takes away from Obi Wan and from Anakin (and their relationship). All you would have to do is figure out how to allow Obi Wan to learn the Force Ghost talent another way and you have completely eliminated the need for Qui Gon. Considering in this version of the movie you establish that Obi Wan is very much interested in the ancient texts of the Jedi it would make sense he was scholarly enough to find something.

 

Also you do not need General Grevious. Obi Wan is going to fight Maul for the entire set of films. You are going to use Dooku as the Grand Moff Tarkin type to lead the Seperatists, and Dooku will not be an ex-Jedi but the senator who lost to Palpatine for Chancellor (which he thought was rigged and is now in his mind fighting for the Republic's ideals while making a deal with Sideous...you get the irony!). Anakin will still eventually kill a helpless Dooku, and Obi Wan will kill Maul in episode 3.

 

Lastly what about Jar Jar? I keep him in the movie but instead of a very poor analog of C3-PO I instead make him an analog for Chewbacca. The honorable, strong, and loyal sidekick to Padme. When Padme becomes Naboo's senator he is her bodyguard. He is not present on Mustafar and he considers his assignment (we can say Gungans who are told to do something by the Big Boss do it until they die or told otherwise) passed to Leia when she is born (and avoids every returning to Naboo so he cannot be given another assignment). He is on Alderran when it explodes (again mimicking Chewie).

 

Oh and no midichlorians FFS.

Edited February 27, 2012 by ArchFirehaven

[Kurfer]

How were they more childish exactly?

 

Was it the graphic killings, the politics and senate hearings, or the all out war, not to mention killing children...

 

Never mind it was because the originals were so much more mature with their teddy bears destroying and elite sabotage force to win the war, the seemingly impossible chance of any main character actually dieing to blaster fire ever and lets not forget the oh so loveable jawas.

 

It was the cheesy dialog that rivaled nickelodeon programming. As you mentioned, these very serious topics didn't come off as very serious due to the inept story telling and screenplay writing/directing.

 

The original movies were lightyears ahead of these "new" movies; they almost found a way to break a legendary movie franchise.

[Nindoriel]

IIRC that is exactly what George hated, during his experiences of filming the first 3 movies, hence why he went completely solo on the prequels. Not bossy guys telling him how to film his movie!

 

Then I guess the problem is that George doesn't know how to tell a good story.

 

And lets face it, I'm sure most people can sit and go "hey, here's what I would have done" But we didn't , did we?

 

Yeah, we didn't because we weren't the ones who filmed this movie. But we can still think about how else the movie could have been.

[Yodabounce]

I am also one of those rare few that enjoyed SW 1. It wasnt the greatest and like all movies it had it's flaws but it was entertaining. The biggest thing to me is that I thought Darth Maul should have had a little more to do with it. I am not a Maul fanatic but I think they could have just done more.

[Scoobings]

If this is what the average prequel-haters version of what would have made Episode 1 "good" in their eyes, I'm glad that Lucas stayed true to his own vision, and left the haters where they belong...in the basement, lamenting about how Lucas "***** their childhood".

 

Quite simply, the version this guy presented sucked.

 

Firstly, Obi-wan can't be the replacement for Luke in the prequels. That is and always has to be Anakin, because the whole idea of parallels in story telling is to show how two people get presented with the same choice, and one chooses the right way (Luke) while the other chooses the wrong way (Anakin). If Obi-wan took over the protagonist role, Lucas would have had to introduce a convoluted plot device (Obi-wan being attracted to Padme) in order to give conflict to the story...a conflict that had to resolve itself in the space of three movies...bearing in mind that Anakin also has to have his story told as well. You could say that this would parallel the whole Luke/Leia/Han thing that only solved itself once Luke found out Leia was his sister...but that only proves the point that such love triangles are best left for soap operas where they have unlimited time to come to a resolution instead of six hours. The best solution was what Lucas came up with in Episode 3 - Anakin believing that Obi-wan and Padme had something happening and experiencing the jealousy that came with it...without it actually being the case.

 

Secondly, the last battle idea (having everyone attack the same target) SOUNDS good in theory. But if you think about if from a film perspective, framing a scene where two distinct fights happen in the same room (or even location) is literally impossible - otherwise it gets too cluttered and you wonder which fight you are meant to focus on. Take a look at ANH...the only time the two fights meet up (Luke, Leia and Han vs Obi-wan/Vader) is when Luke and the rest have finished their fight and the action is quite obviously not with them.

 

I'll agree though that Maul was a waste of a character. He could have quite easily taken the role of antagonist in the second movie as well instead of Dooku (who could have been relegated to a Grand Moff Tarkin role). But really, what character development does Darth Maul give the story? He's already done his job in Episode 1, which was to make Anakin Obi-wan's apprentice. Obi-wan is meant to be the embodiment of a true Jedi - he wouldn't want revenge, and it wasn't like he was still 'in training' as a Padawan (Obi-wan is only waiting for Qui-Gon's recommendation to the Council to take the trials), so any attempt to parallel fights between him and Darth Maul with Luke/Vader would fall flat.

 

tl:dr - Episode 1 is good for what it is - an introduction to the main characters (Anakin, Obi-wan, Padme, Palpatine), with the people who aren't included in the rest of the story (Qui-Gon, Maul) getting bumped off for expediency in story-telling. Could have it been better? Yes. Is it good enough? Yes as well.

 

If you held phantom menace to your own standards you would say it was just as crappy. Talk about not knowing what battle to focus on and being emotionally invested in? OK, lets have 5 characters, none of home we care about because there isn't a strong protagonist, engage in 4 different battles at 4 different locations with all the emotional investment of people waiting in line at the DMV.

 

Phantom menace had no protagonist (if you say Anakin, he wasn't introduced until minute ~45 of the movie). By their own words, they try to get as much stuff on the screen as they possibly can. Their reasoning is it makes for an intense experience but in reality all it does is serve to dilute the plot and make us just not care.

 

That leaves 2 choices:

 

Make the first 3 about Obi-Wan, the last 3 about luke, with Anakin being the over-arching odyssey or you make the first 3 about Anakin and the last 3 about Luke (like you suggested).

 

The problem with the latter is that Anakin is a child who is never in control of his surroundings and is too young to care or be emotionally invested in what's happening around him. IF Anakin was wayyyyyy older your way might have worked but we would still have the same problem of not meeting our "protagonist" until 45 minutes in and as a result of that we wouldn't be invested in him (or any other character).

 

The script needed a complete re-write any way you slice it, utilizing any basic knowledge of literature or dramatic structure. It's just an objectively bad, bad script.

[Valkanna]

The only thing I really disagreed with this was the Obi Wan - Anakin - Padme love triangle idea.

 

It's not too bad.

Obi wan is a good jedi so would not sucumb to his emotions, he would not even admit them so nothing at all would ever happen with padme,

Padme knowing obi wan would never be with her looks for comfort elsewhere, finding it with Anakin. Padme's relationship with anakin is a complicated mix of 'rebound', wanting to be close to Obi Wan and falling for Anakin. This actually gives her a reason for staying with Anakin even after some of the attrocious things he does. (the way the current love story is it makes no sense. no reason why she would fall for him, no reason to stay with a mass murderer, nothing except the plot needs her to so Luke and Leia can be born)

Anakin would be raging with jealousy knowing that even though he's mad for Padme he's just second choice for her. Not only is that a good thing for his eventual fall but a relationship with Obi Wan like that means that he will never truely be friends and have respect for him. Actually giving him reasons for Anakin to hold resentments, feel like he's deliberately being held back and rebel against him (especially "you turned her against me")

 

You still have the parallels with Anakin Vs Luke having a similar situation and making different choices.

Anakin - Obi Wan - Padme

Luke - Han - Leia (yes, luke and leia are siblings but they don't know that to start with so there is a love triangle)

[kirorx]

I think not mentioned here and i remember expecting was more Owen Lars.

 

The look the old owen gives his wife in IV made me think that that guy had more to his past than just some farmer. I expected him to show up as a pilot or soldier during the clone wars when the prequels first came out. I remember quietly rooting for him to make an appearance and being rather dissapointed with the way he was introduced in episode 2.

Edited February 28, 2012 by kirorx

[Esoteric_Monk]

I quite enjoyed that. In regards to the whole Obi-Padme thing, the way he tells it it's barely budding by the end of the movie.

 

With her move to the Senate and him taking over Anakin's training, ain't no time for lovin'. Instead, they become fast friends and Anakin gets his window.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Esoteric_Monk

[Darth_Malevolent]

This guy does an AWESOME edit/recreation of how Episode 1 SHOULD have been.

 

Thoughts??

 

 

Look for "The Phantom Edit" guy edits Phantom Menace to be good, like how the editors saved Episode 4.... but Ep 1 was still no where near as good

[Bielduwyn]

He still forgets to correct the mistake Episode I makes about Obi-Wan not wanting to train Anakin. According to his confession in Return of the Jedi he was very eager to train Anakin, confident he could do it as well as Yoda trained him (thus, negating the need for Qui-Gon to exist at all). He didn't say he begrudgingly trained Anakin because it was some Jedi he never mentioned before's dying wish.

[Valkanna]

Look for "The Phantom Edit" guy edits Phantom Menace to be good, like how the editors saved Episode 4.... but Ep 1 was still no where near as good

 

just checked the wiki for The Phantom Edit and smiled when I saw a list of chenges including several I'd already thought it needed

 

Changes made from the original film in The Phantom Edit

 

Opening crawl replaced with a new one explaining why the edit was made

Re-editing of nearly all scenes featuring Jar Jar Binks and removing some of what Nichols dubs 'Jar Jar Antics'

Removal or re-editing of most of the Battle Droid dialogue

Limiting of exposition throughout the film

Trimming scenes involving politics

Re-arrangement of shots and scenes to match the original Star Wars trilogy's presentation style

Removal of "Yippee" and "Oops" from Anakin's dialogue

Removal of dialogue that specifies the nature of midichlorians as a biological basis for Force sensitivity

[SliggXx]

I can't believe people actually liked the prequals beyond just the Star Wars aspect. In terms of story (plot, pace, dialogue, character development) they were about as bad as can be imagined. Nothing anyone does in Episode 1 makes the slightest bit of sense. Nothing they say makes the slightest bit of sense.

 

Monumental disappointments, the lot of them. I especially love bit of dialogue like this:

 

----

ANAKIN: Don't lecture me, Obi-Wan. I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, justice, freedom, and security to my new Empire.

 

OBI-WAN: Your new Empire?

 

ANAKIN: Don't make me kill you.

 

OBI-WAN: Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic ... to democracy.

 

ANAKIN: If you're not with me, you're my enemy.

----

 

Non-sequitor much?

[Antipathize]

The movies are what they are, and honestly the only reason I have a problem with the prequels is this:

 

They **** all over the EU. Lucas had tons of resources from people who know how to write spanning 16 years, and he just dropped a big one on it all for the sake of selling some more toys.

 

He doesn't actually care about the franchise unless it makes him money. He said he planned these out originally, but the story that's there points to the opposite. I know it's his property, but it is just so obvious that it's a cash cow for him. I played the star wars ccg for years, until they lost the contract to the people that made the Pokemon card game, so maybe I'm biased.

[Invictos]

Firstly, Obi-wan can't be the replacement for Luke in the prequels. That is and always has to be Anakin, because the whole idea of parallels in story telling is to show how two people get presented with the same choice, and one chooses the right way (Luke) while the other chooses the wrong way (Anakin).

 

FWIW, I agree strongly with the above. The two trilogies are clearly designed to be mirrors of one another. Or at least, there are various scenes/set pieces in the prequel trilogy that reveal Lucas' intent to mirror the trilogies.

 

That said, I've always felt that the first movie is largely superfluous from a storyarc standpoint. Nevermind the pacing of the movie itself; I see no reason why Anakin has to be introduced as a young child. And if Lucas felt that we had to see him borne away from his enslaved mother at a young age (which would be a reasonable theory), then there's no reason to leave him that young throughout an entire feature-length film.

 

Well, ok, there is one reason. It begins with an "M," and rhymes with "Arketing."

 

So anyway, my problem with the first movie isn't that it destroyed my childhood or that it isn't entertaining. My problem is that large segments of the film feel like transparent filler. The entire podrace sequence, for instance; it takes what? Half an hour to demonstrate that young Anakin is a good pilot and mechanic? Did we really need yet another disposable villain in the form of Sebulba (or whatever the podrace antagonist is called)? For that matter, how many of the characters introduced in the movie are relevant for any length of time, either in the movie itself or with respect to the entire (prequel) trilogy?

 

It isn't just the over-abundance of CGI that makes the experience feel a little plastic. It's the rush on George's part to introduce eleventy bajillion new characters that we aren't given time to meet properly before they fade into either death or obscurity.

 

The pacing of Phantom Menace is just off, and it looks even worse in retrospect, when taken in context with the other two prequels. If it were just a stand-alone movie, I'd probably be a little more enthused about it. As it is, I accept it for what it is -- a mildly misleading introduction to the Star Wars universe, aimed at children. Oh, and an awesome light saber fight at the end.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Invictos

[RauleDuke]

The prequels were crap for all the reasons mentioned in the redletter review, which is actually more entertaining than the films themselves.

 

The biggest disappointments are the characters and the story. The characters have no character, they're like robots on screen. The dialogue is completely mind numbing. The story is senseless in the extreme.

 

It just seems like Lucas thought if I throw enough visual crap out there and have really cool fight scenes no one will notice how much the other aspects are lacking. And, as the redletter guy said in regard to the light sabers, "more is less." They were a lot cooler and more interesting when everyone and their brother didn't have one and have it out all the damn time.

[Midsyde]

I loved the original trilogy a lot more than then the prequels....Here are my pros and cons of the prequels.

 

PROS

- Epic lightsaber fighting. Loved the choreography

- A view into more/different planets

- A decent story line leading up the the classic originals

 

CONS

- HORRIBLE comic relief. (Jar Jar is the most popular example)

- Some piss poor scripting...admit it there was a lot of cheese

- Bad casting. I think Obiwan and Anakin especially could have had better actors for.

- Too much CGI. I know it's hard to NOT have CGI in present day fantasy/scifi movies....but these films had A LOT.

 

 

I think the story line was awesome and I am glad they did the prequels. I guess if I was George I just would have approached them a bit differently.

[Valkanna]

- Bad casting. I think Obiwan and Anakin especially could have had better actors for.

 

I dissagree, you could take the best actor in the world give them a crap script and bad director and they'd look like Peewee Herman trying to be Conan

 

Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, Ian McDiarmid, Terence Stamp, Samuel L Jackson.

These are all good actors but if you put a diamond in a pile of **** all you'll see is the ****

[Geeluc]

PROS

- Epic lightsaber fighting. Loved the choreography

 

See, I hated the prequels for the same reason.

 

Like when Obi sees Qui Gon get killed and he is MAD, he's going to let his anger get the better of him, the LSs light up, the shield comes down and...they break out in a beautifully choreographed fight sequence. :|

 

I loved it more in RTOJ, when Luke was mad at Vader, it wasn't all 'danced out'. Luke just whaled on him! No finesse. No art. He just opened a can of whoop as$.

 

I think the fight between Qui/Obi/Maul is one of the worst in all of the SW films.

[SNEAKYSIX]

is there Stars Wars 1-3? Really for some reason my mind doesnt even believe they exist even though i may have accidenlty watched them. Denile ,,,, there is only New Hope, Empire Striked Back (<<my fav) and Return of The jedi aren't there?

 

EDIT: As much as i hate to admit it,, i did like 2 and 3,,,, its sad that acting is wooden though. defining a great actor is one who can still act surrounded with no atmosphere and only blue screen. I guess this has something to do with why they are not so good. Jarr Jarr wth.... Anyway still enjoyable cuz theyre star wars.

Edited March 1, 2012 by SNEAKYSIX