What happened to MMO Communities?

[MattBat]

I am extremely disappointed in the communities of MMO's as well. Let me start off by saying that I loved this game with every fiber of my being. I quit this game because the community has became like WoW's (by far the worst gaming experience of my life). I strive to be a good person in every way possible but no one seems to want to return the favor. I was in a guild of people I thought were my friends, the first chance they got they turned on me. I have severe Social Anxiety Disorder and the only way I can really talk to anyone is through MMO's and social network sites (which I have also given up on), that being said I had an extremely awful day and I came online to talk to my guild about it and get some support from what I thought were my friends... I got kicked from the guild because I was supposedly spamming guild chat even though I explained all of this. I got kicked after dealing with a guy who said women are 'pieces of ***' (they didn't get kicked), I got kicked even after dealing with a person who attacked me for standing up for my friend, for standing up for my belief in God, and for standing against drugs (they didn't get kicked either). This situation genuinely brought me close to committing suicide (compiled with everything else that was going on in my life). It's surprising that people you think are your friends will turn on you when you need them the most, then they won't even hear you out when you try to explain things. In today's world you can't be against sex before marriage, drugs, or alcohol without being treated like garbage. It should be the opposite way around, but this world is messed up to say the least. I sincerely hope that the community improves here (Rift's community was by far the best I've ever seen, I miss the community there a lot). There were a lot of good people I knew in this game... unfortunately I can't deal with the others. As stupid as it may sound, show respect and decency to the people you're playing the game with. I'll be back when they allow server transfers and I pray that I simply chose a 'bad' server.

 

 

Hang in there my friend. Just like I said in my reply post to the post creator. The kids of today are getting worst because of their parents were to young or immature to have them. Morals have gone out of the window and whats really sad is now they are the ones who are creating these environments we call MMO's and movies.

 

As one Christian to another. We are not in the world of the living, but in the world of the dying. Only a true Christian will now what I mean. God bless you.

[PinkiePiePower]

I don't understand these topics. This MMO is a huge breath of fresh air. Perhaps you all should have chosen your realm more carefully ..

 

My realm has its share of bad apples, but the questing areas are far from empty. People are constantly talking in general chat, even in starting areas. If I ask a question I get a quick, friendly reply. I've had quite a few people help me level up - had one guy who stuck with me while we ran through the same class area 4 times because one of us kept forgetting to do something!

 

People have saved me when they see I'm about to die, and we've had some very civil chats in general about quite a few topics .. so on and so forth. Really, this community is fantastic. Perhaps it's just that I expect so little after coming from WoW's cesspool of a community, but I'm loving the people in this game so far.

 

The comments being posted about the youth of today are ridiculous and completely false. We are becoming more tolerant of differences than any other generation in history, and the next generation is probably going to be even better. The problem is the anonymity of the internet - anyone can say what they want with no real repercussions. That's how it should be, of course, but it does cause problems. People forget they're talking to a real human being with feelings, if they have a bad day they take it out on people online. It's easy to be cruel to someone when you can't see their face. This will never go away, no matter how any generation is raised.

 

People seriously need to take off the rose-colored glasses and actually remember what kids were doing when they were kids. Because they sure weren't sitting around being perfect angels like everyone seems to think.

Edited February 25, 2012 by PinkiePiePower

[Slamz]

I know that I'm probably going to get a lot of "you old fogie" hate for this, but it's a question I can not stop asking myself lately. I've played MMO's for just about 11 years now. Started off with Everquest and have adventured my way through multiple others. The one thing that really drew me in to the genre was it's sense of community and companionship. I thought it was awesome that your character lived in a world with thousands of others.

 

Not only were the vast majority of those people helpful; they were friendly to boot! People actually went out of their way to help another player that they didn't know from a hole in the wall. It was astounding.

 

Now, however, I feel like every game that comes out gets worse and worse in regards to it's community. People live to grief, harass, and flame the **** out of each other. The worst part is that it's become accepted as the norm. No one says anything because they've given up trying to fix it.

 

So, is it just me? Is anyone else as disappointed as I am?

 

Several factors:

 

1) Cultural change in society. Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect aka "John Gabriel's Greater Internet F__wad Theory"

 

Anonymity seems to turn people into jerks. 11 years ago the internet was fairly new to people and not a major influence on most people's lives. Now it's some people's entire lives and it has had a detrimental effect on their ability to act like rational human beings.

 

2) Changes in game design

 

In EQ, when we went somewhere, we just all went. Plane of Fear? 47 people online? I guess we bring 47 people! Sebilis and we have 13 people online? I guess we go with 13 people and work it out when we get there! (You 6 over here, you 6 over there, odd man can sit and help and roll on loot til a spot opens.)

 

These days everything is fixed group sizes. You got 6 people? Well tough. Group size is 4. The instance will only let 4 people in. The encounter is tailored for 4 people so the 2 leftovers can't do it at all. Big raid? 20 slots! Not 19. Not 21. 20.

 

I think this creates a big sense of "now I need you / now I don't". Or worse -- "now I can use your help / now I literally can't use your help because the game prevents it".

 

 

So I think what we see in MMORPG communities is a combination of the degradation of society and the influence of poorly thought out game design. SWTOR is really not a good game for just logging in and making friends and hanging out and having fun together. It's far too restrictive for that. Group size is 4! You're the fifth? Sod off, you!

[Cynomen]

I don't understand these topics. This MMO is a huge breath of fresh air. Perhaps you all should have chosen your realm more carefully ..

 

My realm has its share of bad apples, but the questing areas are far from empty. People are constantly talking in general chat, even in starting areas. If I ask a question I get a quick, friendly reply. I've had quite a few people help me level up - had one guy who stuck with me while we ran through the same class area 4 times because one of us kept forgetting to do something!

 

People have saved me when they see I'm about to die, and we've had some very civil chats in general about quite a few topics .. so on and so forth. Really, this community is fantastic. Perhaps it's just that I expect so little after coming from WoW's cesspool of a community, but I'm loving the people in this game so far.

 

The comments being posted about the youth of today are ridiculous and completely false. We are becoming more tolerant of differences than any other generation in history, and the next generation is probably going to be even better. The problem is the anonymity of the internet - anyone can say what they want with no real repercussions. That's how it should be, of course, but it does cause problems. People forget they're talking to a real human being with feelings, if they have a bad day they take it out on people online. It's easy to be cruel to someone when you can't see their face. This will never go away, no matter how any generation is raised.

 

People seriously need to take off the rose-colored glasses and actually remember what kids were doing when they were kids. Because they sure weren't sitting around being perfect angels like everyone seems to think.

 

Well said and very good points.

[Zannarra]

I have to disagree, having played Wow, and Guild wars before that, I have found SWTOR very friendly. Wow has been the worst trollling I have ever experienced. Swtor has so far been rather friendly. It is not a generational thing, I am an older gamer, and really don't think it is an age factor by any means.

4 people teams do work,although there is few enough to do FP at the levels they are supposed to be played at, but now that I can do them in HM, I will catch up on the ones I missed. Be open minded, and it is more fun!

[Ainrehtea]

I know that I'm probably going to get a lot of "you old fogie" hate for this, but it's a question I can not stop asking myself lately. I've played MMO's for just about 11 years now. Started off with Everquest and have adventured my way through multiple others. The one thing that really drew me in to the genre was it's sense of community and companionship. I thought it was awesome that your character lived in a world with thousands of others.

 

Not only were the vast majority of those people helpful; they were friendly to boot! People actually went out of their way to help another player that they didn't know from a hole in the wall. It was astounding.

 

Now, however, I feel like every game that comes out gets worse and worse in regards to it's community. People live to grief, harass, and flame the **** out of each other. The worst part is that it's become accepted as the norm. No one says anything because they've given up trying to fix it.

 

So, is it just me? Is anyone else as disappointed as I am?

 

I'm only on my 6th year of MMO gaming and since I started I've noticed it as well.

I am someone who still goes out of my way to helping the community(Hosting Social runs on my server, giving away items I can't use, ect.).As the games go on I see them getting worse, out of all the bad things to be the one to bring happiness to others by helping out always makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Ainrehtea

[Andge]

I agree. Most MMO's have tons of people with nothing but rude attitude. Not that there aren't still nice people out there. There's just too many obnoxious, rude people.

 

But I think it's a development that's affecting all anonymous, online communication; youtube is filled with people insulting and griefing each other over trivial things.

 

I think the best way to combat it is to; 1) don't give in to the temptation to stoop to the same level as those people. 2) assert yourself in a respectful but explicit way whenever you come across rude, obnoxious behavior. 3) add them to your friend's list when you meet nice people, add them to your ignore list when you meet rude, obnoxious people; as your lists grow longer, the rude, obnoxious people become more and more peripheral.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Andge

[JusticeLord]

Hang in there my friend. Just like I said in my reply post to the post creator. The kids of today are getting worst because of their parents were to young or immature to have them. Morals have gone out of the window and whats really sad is now they are the ones who are creating these environments we call MMO's and movies.

 

As one Christian to another. We are not in the world of the living, but in the world of the dying. Only a true Christian will now what I mean. God bless you.

 

Thank you, God bless you as well

[Rushka]

I've been playing MMO's for a few years now and have played a lot of them. EQ2, WoW, AoC, CoH, DCUO, Eve and more. I've come to the conclusion that the community in this game is the worst I've seen.

 

It seems to be common practice on my server for players to come into a group of mobs I'm fighting and try to pick off the untagged ones. I don't mean when my health is low and they might think of helping me, but just to take some of my mobs.

 

Often I'm about to send my companion, or am about to go in myself and I find another char pulling the mobs from further away. Or I'll clear the mobs around a quest object, only to have another player pick it up while I'm fighting.

 

I wondered at first if it was just that a lot people playing this game seem to never have played an MMO before and were just unaware of the etiquette, but after a month or so of playing, I've come to the conclusion that they're just rude.

 

Never would I have thought that I'd greet the sight of a green solo zone with such relief as I do now.

 

I'd like to think that as the game matures those people will fall by the wayside, lured by shiner newer things, but right now, its really hard to convince myself I want to keep playing long term.

[diamondking]

 

Often I'm about to send my companion, or am about to go in myself and I find another char pulling the mobs from further away. Or I'll clear the mobs around a quest object, only to have another player pick it up while I'm fighting.

 

 

I hate when that happens. People that do that to me, quickly gets on my ignore list, since I know there's no chance in hell I ever want something to do with a person that does that, if I don't get a quick whisper with the word "sorry" in it.

 

I think alot of people arn't that bad actually, but everyone has a massive wall build around themselves in these games, thinking that everyone is a bastard, and better to do unto them before they do unto me.

 

When you get inside their little fortress, you can actually find some normal, decent people, who just have been burned a few times.

[Cerilynn]

I used to be one who helped and grouped often and willingly, but over the last couple of years of playing, (EQ, EQ2, LotRO, SWG), I found myself burned far too often.

 

- from people luring me (or trying to) into PVP situations to kill me, to group mates who don't even acknowledge that requests have been made, to unhelpful and hurtful comments in chat, to unhelpful and hurtful actions in the game -

 

As a result, unless I force myself to, I find I tend to hide from people in the game. I won't even compete for kills, I'll wander away and come back later. I refuse to do blind group invites. If someone comes up to me and stands near me without talking to me or any other sort of communication, as soon as I'm able, I'll leave and come back later. This includes those "drive by buffers." If you talk to me, I'll chat back, but otherwise, I get nervous and uncomfortable.

 

This is behavior that I didn't realize I was doing until it was pointed out to me.

 

Now for the massively ironic thing? ... I came here because my last game was getting boring due to my guild fading and my no longer having lots of people to interact with, although I'll admit I need to quantify that as "people I'm comfortable interacting with."

 

Oh, and for some reason I don't understand, I'm a lot more willing to be chatty here on the forums than in the game.

 

~ Cerilynn

[rkopczak]

Problem is people nowdays treat mmo like every other single player game, they want to "finish" it and move to next one.

[Strangiato]

When I logged in on the first day of early access on my Jedi Knight, I asked in general chat if anyone knew if they were gonna add chat bubbles. I thought it was a harmless question. The first response I got was "Chat bubbles aren't needed in this game, Go back and play runescape noob." That was about 20 minutes after the game launched on Dec. 13th. My bad social experience didn't take long.

[RabidPopcorn]

When I logged in on the first day of early access on my Jedi Knight, I asked in general chat if anyone knew if they were gonna add chat bubbles. I thought it was a harmless question. The first response I got was "Chat bubbles aren't needed in this game, Go back and play runescape noob." That was about 20 minutes after the game launched on Dec. 13th. My bad social experience didn't take long.

 

iknorite. people are constantly saying things like:

 

"we don't need this"

 

"this game is fine without this"

 

"go back to <insert popular MMO here>"

 

"learn to live with it"

 

Which is unfortunate, because I cannot understand why people would be against more choices.

 

Too many SW fanbois invariably means that these are the people you will encounter in-game; and most SW fanbois can only view the game through their own SW-lenses, trying to persuade them to look at thingsf from a different perspective can really be a hard thing to do.

 

Despite having so many players, WoW never really had fanboi issues... and tbh, I never really expected to encounter such huge fanboi resistance in a game until I played SWTOR.

[Dkfusion]

I of course agree with the OP. And I do believe most people hit the nail on the head on the status of social interaction within the MMO gaming world. I have played with people online for long even before UO/Asheron's Call/EQ. I started with MuDs. Everything from Godwars to DiKu/Smaug code bases etc.etc.

 

People have developed a very high self-entitlement issue. This coupled with the ability to slander freely and having no concern for any recourse. The player bases of many of your first designed multiplayer experiences were tiny compared to today. Giving grief to another player had real consequences as you may actually have to rely on the same community constantly.

 

The current generation is the other factor. People in general across the board have changed. When I was graduating highschool oh so long ago in the last months we all got together and followed a traditional "Senior Skip day". We went and got food, went to the beach and had a blast for the duration of an entire school day. Regardless of social groups/cliques we were all one group that day and it was a blast. A little over a decade later my sister, graduating from the same school I did, also participated in senior skip day. I was blasted away to find that all these kids skipped school and stayed home and just texted each other all day. There was no bonding or adventure, just an excuse to skip school. Generations are changing.

[Frigidman]

I've actually been noticing this with society in general. Outside the virtual world. I blame smart phones for the decline in quality human interactions

 

It used to be grand in mmo's in the olden days. I miss them, fond memories, fun times, great people, communities. I long to see that again, but have yet to see it in any new mmo of today. Sad huh.

[Derfmiolleh]

A decade ago the online gaming community was small and specific. Just the nerds stayed home on the weekend to play games. Now the MMO community is more and more mainstream. Millions of customers and growing. The small village has become LA. Edited February 27, 2012 by Derfmiolleh

[Steelyeye]

Seems like everything now in a MMO is a competition. First to max level, first guild to kill a boss, first to do whatever. Just for the sake of being able to brag about. Players rate other players on their gear alone, and if you have inferior gear you are look down at. You use to help other players get better gear.

 

MMO have become nothing but the acquisition of gear, and in some bizarre way this rates how "good" you are as a person. MMO are not designed to build a community like they used to be, and it becoming harder to find decent players anymore. Most of my old school friends have stopped playing MMO years ago.

 

PvP use to be fun back in the olds days. Now if you get beat by someone they gloat and tell you how much you suck. What ever happen to just PvP'ing because it was fun? Whatever happen to teaming with someone to be social. This game is one of the most anti-teaming MMO I have ever played. Its like trying to pull teeth to get a Heroic done.

 

Seems like most play a MMO like its a single player game, which always makes me scratch my head in confusion....

[Kabjat]

I know that I'm probably going to get a lot of "you old fogie" hate for this, but it's a question I can not stop asking myself lately. I've played MMO's for just about 11 years now. Started off with Everquest and have adventured my way through multiple others. The one thing that really drew me in to the genre was it's sense of community and companionship. I thought it was awesome that your character lived in a world with thousands of others.

 

Not only were the vast majority of those people helpful; they were friendly to boot! People actually went out of their way to help another player that they didn't know from a hole in the wall. It was astounding.

 

Now, however, I feel like every game that comes out gets worse and worse in regards to it's community. People live to grief, harass, and flame the **** out of each other. The worst part is that it's become accepted as the norm. No one says anything because they've given up trying to fix it.

So, is it just me? Is anyone else as disappointed as I am?

 

And if you DO try to speak up against bad, inappropriate behavior you are instantly reviled and ridiculed, called names, and told to grow a thicker skin or leave the internet. Basically, you are bullied into ignoring the behavior because the thinking is, it will never change, so why bother trying to counter it?

 

I am a firm believer in this: If it's not something you would do IRL in public, then what makes you think anyone in an online community wants to see or hear it?

 

So no...you are not alone in your disappointment.

[Frigidman]

I am a firm believer in this: If it's not something you would do IRL in public, then what makes you think anyone in an online community wants to see or hear it?

 

Just had to quote that, because it speaks volumes of pure common sense and needed to be said again.

[Slamz]

I am a firm believer in this: If it's not something you would do IRL in public, then what makes you think anyone in an online community wants to see or hear it?

 

Similarly, I like to say that how people act online (when they are basically anonymous) says everything you need to know about them as a human being -- that is what they would do in real life if they could get away with it.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Slamz

[SNEAKYSIX]

Agreed with OP,.

 

I find the game becomes a SINGLE PLAYER experience which is not what I paid for. I want to interact with others without fear of harrass, abuse or flame.

In other games like GW for example I would find questing on my own no problem and when I needed help I would ask. Or do a really long quest with another players and the friendship was secured.

 

THIS GAME :

In a game where theres lots of running to next point you might think this is a point to make a bond with a team mate, But its not with respawning enemies theres no time to chat until mission is complete. (I dont want to use my mic as it defeats the purpose).

 

I joined a RP server as I thought that was the way to go and after leveling and grinding with nobody role playing at all I pondered what was the point of me joining this server. Then out the blue a gamer on a quest said "The force is strong with you jedi, we must prevail", (i died and he said) "we must meditate on that and form strategy", "agreed these are formidable enemy"... NOW THATS WHAT I WANT FROM RP servers.

 

Anyway yes MMO has become a silent community in game, There is rarely conversation seen. Having mics on RP servers does not serve to create a RP experience for all to share, SAve your Mics for PVP, raids and so on.

 

MMOs are not like the days of old.. I started on Diablo 2 and a 56k modem, reset every 2 hours. The community then was helpful and fun..... Long for that generation of gaming to come back

[Armourboy]

Some of it is due to a new generation of gamers, but oddly enough in lots of cases us " older" generation have turned out to be just as bad.

 

It was always funny when we were younger and playing an MMO, if you didn't have much time to play you understood you weren't going to get a whole lot accomplished. Now though those same people that understood that are the ones with kids, a job, etc. However, as the got older many decided that idea was bad, they pay just as much now, they should still get the same things done even though they don't have the time.

 

So over the years MMO's have gotten easier to be able to bring in a less brainy crowd, and to be able to keep the 30+ that don't have near the time to play anymore.

 

At the beginning, MMO's were basically the next step for AD&D players, and you had people that where much more cerebral. This same group often times used MMO's as a way to get their social needs, being many were not highly sociable people.

 

MMO's used to be setup to encourage people to play together, because well thats what we all really wanted to do. Today though they have turned into glorified console games, where the goal is to beat it. There was a time you never really could beat an MMO, there was always something for even the most hardcore to try and get. This would never be allowed today though because far too many people believe they should be able to do everything and have everything because they pay the same 15 bucks a month.

 

SWTOR is far better than a lot of other MMO's lately when it comes to community, but I think that is because of the type of player playing it. There are lots of "finishers" out there, but there are just as many of us " I'm not in any hurry" players.

 

Its sad to think but tbh I think the only way to find a community like we all want is to play a much more niche MMO, problem is those don't really exist atm either.

[SNEAKYSIX]

cant disagree with post above, true, us oldie gamers need more time lol.....

Juggling family and work is a pain. My game addiction has left..... This only puts more emphasis on my time I allocate and the fun I require. When this doesnt happen and I pay a sub, I must question the reasons I still play and is it worth it investing time into a community of people with the minority that lack respect. To bypass this, the game needs to have enough to keep me here. So it does.

Edited February 27, 2012 by SNEAKYSIX

[Armourboy]

cant disagree with post above, true, us oldie gamers need more time lol.....

Juggling family and work is a pain. My game addiction has left..... This only puts more emphasis on my time I allocate and the fun I require. When this doesnt happen and I pay a sub, I must question the reasons I still play and is it worth it investing time into a community of people with the minority that lack respect. To bypass this, the game needs to have enough to keep me here. So it does.

 

Oh trust me, I don't have the time I once had either, damn RL getting in the way.

 

The thing is what most of us look fondly upon are the reasons MMO's today get millions of players, they are now something where you can get something done in 30-45 minutes. There was a time that if you didn't have 3-4 hours to play you didn't even bother, unless you just wanted to chat.

 

Maybe thats why the community was so much better in the " old days". We would still log in and chat even if we only had an hour, but you never could really get anything useful done in that time. You take WoW for instance today, with an hour I can get all my dailies done or get a heroic or two run. MMO's today just breed the " go mentality" and when you get that you don't really have time to stop and communicate.