Are sentinels/Maruaders the most under rated class?

[Verill]

It's quite the oppossite, if you are a marauder/sentinel watchman/annhi and you are dying a lot, you are doing it wrong.

 

Edit - and yes "in before go away sorc" i play a sentinel as main on pvp.

 

If you don't die a lot, if means either:

 

1. You have a supporting team (healz, guards)

2. Opposing team just don't focus on you that much

 

Outside of your camo you could die in a blink if focused while stunned or even snared.

 

Im myself in a pvp guild, with a team that supports me. And yes I don't die a lot.

 

But when I go solo, I die more. At least 2 times more on some cases.

 

It is all about support.

Can I get a guarded healer to 50% in 3-4 GCD ? No I can't, and I wouldn't even try.

[FluxWing]

Why would you open your burst with rebuke? If you open with defensive CDs, you could just be CCd by things like instant Force Lift/Cryo, or "Vanish", while players just wait until it runs out.

 

Leap->Overloaded Saber(in the air)->ZS->cauterize->Merciless = 4 stacked, Zen-boosted DoTs

 

It is Merciless Strike that hits like a truck, the stacked DoTs with Zen is just follow up preassure.

 

And Zen is up almost all the time. 3 centering is built per Focus Spender, 2 centering when attacked every 3 sec. Which is like a 15-20 sec CD in Watchman spec.

 

Now you can start thinking about defensive CDs, unless your target is already running for his life.

[Verill]

The problem with sents & maras is that none of you have bothered to look at the class's extremely easily exploitable weaknesses.

 

For instance, If you mezz them when they pop rebuke, then they're going to take 20% more damage for the rest of the fight. Don't keep refreshing it. It lasts 30 seconds if you're mindlessly beating on them, but falls off in 6 seconds otherwise.

 

 

99% of sents open with leap > overload > zealous. If you knock them back between overload saber and zealous then they're stuck at range, focus starved, with their charge on cd, and their main dps ability on cooldown.

 

Don't try and dps through guarded by the force... I see people do this all the time, it really makes me laugh. Play defensively and try to kite/heal.

 

They only have 1 snare, and it's manually applied and costs 2 focus. Usually Maras won't be able to apply this until 3-4 seconds into a fight. During this time it's pretty easy to get away.

 

It takes sents a minimum of 4.5 seconds to get overload saber stacked on you, usually more than that. During those 4.5 seconds they're going to be doing very mediocre damage. Don't assume that because your health isn't dropping during that time that they aren't doing anything, because they're setting up for their burst.

 

When they disappear, they're coming back in 4 seconds... don't hit tab and start focusing down a new target.

 

and as watchman, their interrupt is on a 6 second cooldown, meaning you don't stand there looking stupid for 4 seconds every time something is interrupted, queue up your next cast. If you're a merc, be ready to unload if your TM is interrupted (Or better yet, lead with unload and they'll probably interrupt it anyways, giving you 4 free tracer missiles to spam in melee range)

 

This should go without saying... but if you see them start to channel a spell interrupt it, or get out of melee range.

 

 

 

Killing a mara/sent 1v1 really isn't that hard if you know what you're doing. Don't go in blind mindlessly spamming your dps rotation in melee range expecting to beat one...

 

All very correct accept that OS should be cast before or during the leap. You can still sometimes get a knockback (knockbacks are rare in this game) before ZS lands (sometimes the animation stucks and you don't really get the hit due to a bit o latency.

[VincentWolf]

The thing that most people think that sents/maras are underpowered is the reason the most experienced players still enjoy free wins and actual, as all pro players know, op'ness. This is the class that actually needs serious damage nerfs, but because ppl dont know how to play it, it's still untouched.... Pretty sad.

[Verill]

Why would you open your burst with rebuke? If you open with defensive CDs, you could just be CCd by things like instant Force Lift/Cryo, or "Vanish", while players just wait until it runs out.

 

Leap->Overloaded Saber(in the air)->ZS->cauterize->Merciless = 4 stacked, Zen-boosted DoTs

 

It is Merciless Strike that hits like a truck, the stacked DoTs with Zen is just follow up preassure.

 

And Zen is up almost all the time. 3 centering is built per Focus Spender, 2 centering when attacked every 3 sec. Which is like a 15-20 sec CD in Watchman spec.

 

Now you can start thinking about defensive CDs, unless your target is already running for his life.

 

Tbh I open with rebuke almost only vs melee.

[GrandMike]

The problem with sents & maras is that none of you have bothered to look at the class's extremely easily exploitable weaknesses.

 

For instance, If you mezz them when they pop rebuke, then they're going to take 20% more damage for the rest of the fight. Don't keep refreshing it. It lasts 30 seconds if you're mindlessly beating on them, but falls off in 6 seconds otherwise.

 

Once we have decent UI this might actually be worth a penny.

 

99% of sents open with leap > overload > zealous. If you knock them back between overload saber and zealous then they're stuck at range, focus starved, with their charge on cd, and their main dps ability on cooldown.

 

Thats why 99% of them die. And we are not talking about those 99% because those are irrelevant.

 

Don't try and dps through guarded by the force... I see people do this all the time, it really makes me laugh. Play defensively and try to kite/heal.

 

CC also works provided no resolve bar.

 

They only have 1 snare, and it's manually applied and costs 2 focus. Usually Maras won't be able to apply this until 3-4 seconds into a fight. During this time it's pretty easy to get away.

 

Like how? Most classes dont apply snare of their own until they need it.

 

It takes sents a minimum of 4.5 seconds to get overload saber stacked on you, usually more than that. During those 4.5 seconds they're going to be doing very mediocre damage. Don't assume that because your health isn't dropping during that time that they aren't doing anything, because they're setting up for their burst.

 

How does this amounts to anythig?

 

When they disappear, they're coming back in 4 seconds... don't hit tab and start focusing down a new target.

 

Umm, what should i do for 4s? Look stoopid. 4s~3gcds. Ill attack someone else during that time duh.

 

and as watchman, their interrupt is on a 6 second cooldown, meaning you don't stand there looking stupid for 4 seconds every time something is interrupted, queue up your next cast. If you're a merc, be ready to unload if your TM is interrupted (Or better yet, lead with unload and they'll probably interrupt it anyways, giving you 4 free tracer missiles to spam in melee range)

 

Like nothing else interrupts indutions Just that intrrupt skill is more effective.

 

This should go without saying... but if you see them start to channel a spell interrupt it, or get out of melee range.

 

Uh, im being force chocked and i should interrupt it. Gotcha.

 

Killing a mara/sent 1v1 really isn't that hard if you know what you're doing. Don't go in blind mindlessly spamming your dps rotation in melee range expecting to beat one...

 

Yah until they pop "I win" skill.

 

And lots of classes need to stand still to spam their DPS rotation (with indutions nonetheless). Or you suggest we stare marauder to death?

[zaknaphein]

This.

 

Marauders and Sentinels are PVP Gods in the right hands. Their toolbox is full of amazing things. If I could stand the thought of making another SW, I would level a Marauder without a doubt.

 

This. They are hard to play and that's why ppl complain. Those who know how to have no problem. Ultimate grp class and very good on 1v1 as well. Pretty balanced for a class.

[FarizAA]

Killing a mara/sent 1v1 really isn't that hard if you know what you're doing. Don't go in blind mindlessly spamming your dps rotation in melee range expecting to beat one...

 

It is not hard to kill sentinel 1vs1 if you know what you are doing, and he does not know what he is doing. If you both know what you are doing, you will be so dead.

 

Sentinel is a great 1vs1 class in a skillful hands. It is just not so many skillful sentinels around, because it is not an easy mode class.

[Aidank]

It is not hard to kill sentinel 1vs1 if you know what you are doing, and he does not know what he is doing. If you both know what you are doing, you will be so dead.

 

Sentinel is a great 1vs1 class in a skillful hands. It is just not so many skillful sentinels around, because it is not an easy mode class.

 

On my sorcerer I rarely lose to the good sentinels in 1v1s. Do what I posted, and unless you're vastly outplayed you're going to win. Simple as that.

 

 

 

edit: And mike, I'm not going to bother to reply to all of that drivel, but I will say that if you're too lazy to watch for extremely visable buffs (A giant blue plume of smoke shoots out of him) then you can't expect to beat decent players.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Aidank

[gibmachine]

People should rethink their opinion on "best gap closer" seeing how charge can throw us into space with no way to get out other than logout which also removes us from wz.

 

It's also hardly "best gap closer" since you can very easily leave yourself open to focus fire from enemy team. Pull is miles ahead in terms of closing the gap cause it adjusts target's positioning and not yours.

 

Sents/maras are far from being underpowered or not viable or whatever people want to call it, but it's also not as powerful a class as some here claim it to be. Sure I can drop virtually anyone 1v1 but in group, unless you have some major support, you simply get switched on and gibbed before healers can redirect any heals on you. Stun -> unleash -> stun again -> dead. Maybe you can prolong your life a bit if you manage to pop Ward or Cloak before second stun. And maras will get switched on a lot cause any rated team will realize that marauder left unchecked will destroy whoever he sets his eyes on.

 

Also there is a matter of complexity required in order to achieve results but I guess you can get used to it after a while (personally, I can't imagine playing other class in a long term cause I simply would have too few buttons to press and that would be awkward for me).

 

Like I said, far from being underrated but definately not in need of a nerf or anything.

[Keldaur]

If you don't die a lot, if means either:

 

1. You have a supporting team (healz, guards)

2. Opposing team just don't focus on you that much

 

Outside of your camo you could die in a blink if focused while stunned or even snared.

 

Im myself in a pvp guild, with a team that supports me. And yes I don't die a lot.

 

But when I go solo, I die more. At least 2 times more on some cases.

 

It is all about support.

Can I get a guarded healer to 50% in 3-4 GCD ? No I can't, and I wouldn't even try.

 

Man you said you died a lot, so took that for granted.

 

Normally camo, losing/kiting, using centering to heal, isn't really easy to kill me. Ofc you know when to pop and if people is focusing me, great, i can pop everything overlapping and go rambo mode for awhile.

 

Our weakness is, like others melees, the CC and people who knows it's better to cc and never try to kill us when we got rebuke up.

[Darth_Sookie]

As a juggernaut i find their cries hillarious. Especially since they seem to think they have terrible sruvivability. lol?

 

Vanish, invulnerability, saber ward AND cloak of pain which is pretty much a flat 20% damage reduction for 30 seconds (if they get attacked) on a 1 iminute cooldown. Add to that obfuscate and dot heal.

 

Marauders are the number one spoilt class in swtor.

[Yogurt]

Boost the other Trees then... Good lord, the dot tree Watchman is the only sustainable dps tree. Focus is group buff oriented and Combat you would think being the best 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 tree is terrible because of animation and I feel that Precision Strike does not work as worded.

 

Alot of Watchman can not speak of Mara's, would go combat if melee lag and animations were more playable because of all the goodies in the tree.

[GrandMike]

On my sorcerer I rarely lose to the good sentinels in 1v1s. Do what I posted, and unless you're vastly outplayed you're going to win. Simple as that.

 

You can beat a bad sentinel/marauder with good sorc/sage. Whats new? Good sentinel will NEVER leap as his first move to fight sorc/sage.

 

edit: And mike, I'm not going to bother to reply to all of that drivel, but I will say that if you're too lazy to watch for extremely visable buffs (A giant blue plume of smoke shoots out of him) then you can't expect to beat decent players.

 

As i said, until UI is better its very moot point. For any buff/debuff.

 

And im pretty sure dots refresh this so...

 

Bottom line is: bad sentinels/marauders die, and good sentinels/marauders kill you no matter what you do.

Edited February 24, 2012 by GrandMike

[Aidank]

All very correct accept that OS should be cast before or during the leap. You can still sometimes get a knockback (knockbacks are rare in this game) before ZS lands (sometimes the animation stucks and you don't really get the hit due to a bit o latency.

 

If they've just leaped you've got 1.5 seconds (A gcd) before they can use ZS. That's the same time as it takes to cast tracer missile. You should be able to reliably get a knockback done during that time.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Aidank

[Verill]

Man you said you died a lot, so took that for granted.

 

Normally camo, losing/kiting, using centering to heal, isn't really easy to kill me. Ofc you know when to pop and if people is focusing me, great, i can pop everything overlapping and go rambo mode for awhile.

 

Our weakness is, like others melees, the CC and people who knows it's better to cc and never try to kill us when we got rebuke up.

 

Hmmm didn't say I die a lot. You are confusing me with someone else maybe.

 

Anyhow. I agree with the rest of stuff you wrote.

 

You can say people just now realized there is a class called sent/mara and that you can't leave it unchecked. Just like you can't leave a BH or Commando sitting there spamming without focusing on them.

[Aidank]

 

As i said, until UI is better its very moot point. For any buff/debuff.

 

And im pretty sure dots refresh this so...

 

Bottom line is: bad sentinels/marauders die, and good sentinels/marauders kill you no matter what you do.

 

No, you haven't got a point either way, When you pop rebuke a giant blue plume of smoke like thing shoots out of you, if you miss that then you need glasses.

 

Not to mention, Marauders need to vigorously watch their buffs and debuffs just to do damage, if you're too lazy to watch their debuffs, or their giant blue smoke thing, then you should expect to lose.

 

You can beat a bad sentinel/marauder with good sorc/sage. Whats new? Good sentinel will NEVER leap as his first move to fight sorc/sage.

 

I guess you know better than the man who wrote all the sentinel pvp guides, so tell me sir, how do you open on sorcerers when playing your sentinel?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Aidank

[symke]

It's quite the oppossite, if you are a marauder/sentinel watchman/annhi and you are dying a lot, you are doing it wrong.

 

Edit - and yes "in before go away sorc" i play a sentinel as main on pvp.

 

Are you playing with healer support or solo? What to do when you have two or three banging on you while you are motionless? And again and again. Heavy armor vs medium and no tanking abilities and we are not supposed to die a lot? Do you play with a group?

 

I usually have the biggest number of deaths at the end and still I manage to be among 3 top damage dealers, 3 top kills, 3 top healers (how I love my DOTs), top half of medals and top half of objectives.

If you don't die a lot as sent/mara, then your scoreboard must be amazing .

 

P.S. I am level 28.

Edited February 24, 2012 by symke

[GrandMike]

No, you haven't got a point either way, When you pop rebuke a giant blue plume of smoke like thing shoots out of you, if you miss that then you need glasses.

 

Not to mention, Marauders need to vigorously watch their buffs and debuffs just to do damage.

 

Did i mention we need better UI?

 

And it can be missed for wahtever reason and not stop doing what yourr doing for whatever reason. What do you suggest doing when he does his move and you are perma slowed and he is not. CC? lol the way you fight you would need 10 ccs to pull it off, and you can get only 2 before resolve is full.

 

As i said, guide how to fight bad marauders/sentinels is ok, but its not that relevant.

Edited February 24, 2012 by GrandMike

[bamsmacked]

The guardian is probably the most lack luster class.

 

Guardian's may have slightly higher mitigation in DPS builds but they lack survivability of the Marauder.

 

Undying Rage, Cloak of Pain, Rebuke, Guarded by the Force, and the vanish both classes get surpass the Guardians survivability.

 

The best Guardian/Jugg survivability talent that's a DPSer is Saber Ward. Enure and Endure Pain are **** talents.

 

And final note all melee classes are at a disadvantage in large scale pvp or vs a team stacked with 1 button mashing champs known as Commandos and Mercenaries.

 

I would say that the Knight and Warrior classes take more skill than most to excel and be good at, but I was super disappointed about how the healing and ranged DPS works out in this game. Seems like super easy mode to me. Any nub could pick up a Merc or Commando and go out spam 1 talent over and over and win.

[GrandMike]

I guess you know better than the man who wrote all the sentinel pvp guides, so tell me sir, how do you open on sorcerers when playing your sentinel?

 

Personally i would use vanish offensively.

 

Because as a sage i tell you that marauder/sentinel that leaps to me as a first move is dead marauder/sentinel.

[Kaarsa]

If marauder opens on you with charge and is not slowing you immidiately, he is one of 99% bad marauders and you kill him without effort. Saying that you kill marauder that charged you and didnt slow you mean you killed a noob. Congrats.

 

Good one will have charge after you knocked him back, slow you in his first/second gcd and then just rip you apart.

 

PS. I know that sometimes charging is a best opener (mostly because of terrain) but if you need to do this to atack someone it would be usually better to just run away and find a better target. My main is assasin, melee range char without any kind of leap and I am used to situations when it is better to find someone else to kill than sorc on the ledge 2 levels above you;)

[Aidank]

Did i mention we need better UI?

 

And it can be missed for wahtever reason and not stop doing what yourr doing for whatever reason. What do you suggest doing when he does his move and you are peram slowed and is not. CC? lol the way you fight you would need 10 ccs to pull it off, and you can get only 2 before resolve is full.

 

As i said, guide how to fight bad marauders/sentinels is ok, but its not that relevant.

 

I can't even read what you're saying at this point, it makes absolutely no sense. What move are you talking about? What perma slow are you talking about? Why on earth do you need 10 ccs.

 

 

And how good or bad a sentinel is, or how good or bad your UI is, has absolutely no effect on the extremely easy to see animation that rebuke gives off.

 

 

That's like saying it's impossible to interrupt force lightning because it's too hard to see when someone is casting it, what you're suggesting is absolutely ridiculous.

[Aidank]

Personally i would use vanish offensively.

 

Because as a sage i tell you that marauder/sentinel that leaps to me as a first move is dead marauder/sentinel.

 

That's absolutely ridiculous, you would use a 45 second vanish that builds no focus instead of a 12 second charge that builds 3-4?

 

 

Vanish is far more valuable than charge is, and has far better uses than as an opener.

[da_krall]

On my sorcerer I rarely lose to the good sentinels in 1v1s. Do what I posted, and unless you're vastly outplayed you're going to win. Simple as that.

 

Such lies or there cant be many good Mara's on your server then. the best i have seen a sorc ever do against my mara (and almost all my guildmate mara) is run away with < 30% health and thats rare that they get away, they need to block LOS or somthing, otherwise they are free kills

Edited February 24, 2012 by da_krall