Tone down Smash/Force Sweep

[Psychokam]

Im talking about lvl50 pvp here. Your 49 expirience is irrelevant.

 

Im sitting at 550+ expertise in bm/champ gear btw. Warriors, keep your "DONT NERF ME BRO" attitude to yourself.

 

I got few leet words for you:

 

L2P and QQ moar

 

Warriors are fine. You just suck at PVP

[KronikInsomniak]

Difference is from healer's POV. You can heal through steady incoming damaga. You can't heal someone who's just got instagibbed with ab pro wrior smashed his head into his big red mofo button of death.

.

 

So you want healers to be unkillable? If you want the burst then we would need double the cc

[Natharon]

LOL @ everyone in this thread justifying the dps. You do a build up, so did scoundrel/operative, they could only do that hit once every 2 minutes, having to use adrenals and other buffs for full effect, that fact didn't stop the QQ.

 

Scoundrel/Operative had their big hit, they got it nerfed to all hell without and return in the sustained game. Yet you think you deserve some sort of compensation if your damage gets nerfed, or at least redistributed? LOL.

 

I find it strangely satisfying that the community who called for a nerf are denying their potential so fervently, when the obvious thing that would happen after the scoundrel/operative nerf was make all the imbalances with other classes much more glaring. Sad thing is, if you do get, "adjusted," I am sure you would be compensated.

[da_krall]

LOL @ everyone in this thread justifying the dps. You do a build up, so did scoundrel/operative, they could only do that hit once every 2 minutes, having to use adrenals and other buffs for full effect, that fact didn't stop the QQ.

 

Im not justifying it i just want people who dont know **** about **** to stop calling for nerfs. It probably is OP, but then every class has something that is OP that you need to learn how to avoid.

Edited February 23, 2012 by da_krall

[ExpectWar]

LOL ive never hit over 5k

[mystbladex]

WOw thanks for the insight I never use smash, ever, and I hit over 300k each warzone so I thought i was doing good, you mean i can do better by using smash?

 

Seriously I never use smash unless in PvE, huh, I gotta try it now.

 

But then again I am anhil spec so "More Dots" not more smash. I want you to run away from me as I watch you die trying to get to the Health.

[KronikInsomniak]

LOL @ everyone in this thread justifying the dps. You do a build up, so did scoundrel/operative, they could only do that hit once every 2 minutes, having to use adrenals and other buffs for full effect, that fact didn't stop the QQ.

 

Scoundrel/Operative had their big hit, they got it nerfed to all hell without and return in the sustained game. Yet you think you deserve some sort of compensation if your damage gets nerfed, or at least redistributed? LOL.

 

I find it strangely satisfying that the community who called for a nerf are denying their potential so fervently, when the obvious thing that would happen after the scoundrel/operative nerf was make all the imbalances with other classes much more glaring. Sad thing is, if you do get, "adjusted," I am sure you would be compensated.

 

Lol wut.

[Luxidenstore]

Inb4 someone hijacks this thread and tries making it into an ops/scoundrel QQ thread.

 

Oh ****, I was too late.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Luxidenstore

[da_krall]

Wrong. Burst is the only way to take down healers. Spreading damage out means healers become impossible to kill.

 

Wrong - you can interupts and stun....you dont need burst but burst will make it faceroll easy. Melee loves faceroll easy.

Edited February 23, 2012 by da_krall

[Sourceerror]

If it was single target i wouldn't care about the damage. The fact it's AOE seems silly.

 

Cool, make it single target and make it so it can't miss because of latency/area since other abilities don't. Bet you will rage harder.

[OldManRelic]

LOL @ everyone in this thread justifying the dps. You do a build up, so did scoundrel/operative, they could only do that hit once every 2 minutes, having to use adrenals and other buffs for full effect, that fact didn't stop the QQ.

 

Scoundrel/Operative had their big hit, they got it nerfed to all hell without and return in the sustained game. Yet you think you deserve some sort of compensation if your damage gets nerfed, or at least redistributed? LOL.

 

I find it strangely satisfying that the community who called for a nerf are denying their potential so fervently, when the obvious thing that would happen after the scoundrel/operative nerf was make all the imbalances with other classes much more glaring. Sad thing is, if you do get, "adjusted," I am sure you would be compensated.

 

Talk about an apples to oranges comparison. Heck, it's more like apples to pickled pigs feet.

 

Ops came out of stealth with an instant 5k+ attack that required no setup, applied a KD, and was followed up with another instant ability before the target could even react.

 

Juggs/Guards build up 4 stacks of an ability over time in full view of God and everyone, and can be cc'd, killed, etc, while they do so. It's an entirely different scenario.

 

Are people not going to be satisfied until every class sits at range spamming one button for 5 minutes until someone is slowly whittled down?

[Zag_Stratos]

Sentinels/Marauders are already the underdog. Let's not tone down anything.

[Sourceerror]

Sentinels/Marauders are already the underdog. Let's not tone down anything.

 

lol, he's got jokes.

[vindianajones]

Difference is from healer's POV. You can heal through steady incoming damaga. You can't heal someone who's just got instagibbed with a pro warrior smashed his head into his big red mofo button of death.

 

And you shouldn't be able to. If all damage in the game was non-burst, nobody would ever die with a good healer at their side. Burst damage is the counter to heals. It sounds to me like you just want all DPS to be consistent and predictable so you can keep your teammates alive without worry. This does not a fun game make.

 

Why aren't you complaining about the burst potential of Vanguard/PT Plastique + Bolt crits? It does as much if not more damage in the same time frame as a Force Sweep and is easier to hit. DPS specc'ed Assassins/Shadows can pull bursts just as big if not bigger, as can Sniper/GS, Commando/Merc, and in many cases Scoundrel/OP post nerf. With the exception of Commando/Merc, most of these bursts don't require a buildup, perfect positioning and avoidance of CC/Lag like the Guardian/Jugg burst does.

 

The game you're suggesting in which no one has burst that can outdo heals would be mind-numbingly dull for anyone but healers. They're already able to keep players up through burst damage (the good ones, anyway), so why make them infinitely better by dumbing down all DPS across the board to be nice and steady?

Edited February 23, 2012 by vindianajones

[Slackfumasta]

If everything is as you saying, why you so hesitant about spreading damage across your abilities? You will even get better - you won't be a one-trick-pony.

 

You must be trolling, because smash damage isn't just a one hit easymode button.

 

Without the setup beforehand, smash hits for very little, 5-600ish on a normal hit. Thus, what you are asking for is already the case - the damage is spread across several abilities, backloaded into Smash. They are:

 

1. Force Leap

2. Force Choke for a full 4 ticks

3. Smash

[Chaosmagistrate]

If you have 550 expertise, then I suggest you actually equip it.

 

On my Scoundrel at 204 expertise, known Battlemaster-geared(not title) Juggernauts Smash have never smashed me for anything greater than 5400. And I watch their buffs to see the adrenal and relic pop.

 

Rage/Focus specs are so easy to counter and avoid. Most players are so predictable that you can easily force them to waste the move. Or if you soak the first, dodge the second, they are kind of weak babies for about 12s, as there simply is not enough Focus or everything is on long enough cooldowns that you can have your way with them.

 

The spec is mainly popular due to the fact that it shines in Voidstar and it is arugably the main DPS spec for Juggs and for Sentinels it is a change-up than Watchman all the time, as Combat has some issues.

 

And before anyone comments on my Scs expertise, that is an alt. My main is only missing the BM Relic/Bracers/Belt.

[Richoshist]

If everything is as you saying, why you so hesitant about spreading damage across your abilities? You will even get better - you won't be a one-trick-pony.

 

Because they won't do that. They nerf Force Sweep and neuter the Focus tree altogether. And if they do that, by rights they should buff both the Focus tree and the Vig tree as well, because there won't be a decent option for PvP DPS. Personally I wish they'd buff Vig a little and I'd go that way instead of Focus, but meh, you play the hand you're dealt.

 

And Force Sweep doesn't hit targets for 6K anymore unless you're popping trinkets and adrenals and hitting a level 45 out in Voss. I'm in full champ/battlemaster gear and the highest crit I've done was 5,800 and that was before the surge nerf, and THAT was against a guy with 11,000 hit points, which of course means he was a fresh 50 in green gear.

 

Your average hit with a built-up Force Sweep is right around 4K, and that is not out of line with what other classes are doing.

 

PvP at level 50 is balanced around end-game gear, not greens. And believe me, you want it that way.

[vindianajones]

If you have 550 expertise, then I suggest you actually equip it.

 

On my Scoundrel at 204 expertise, known Battlemaster-geared(not title) Juggernauts Smash have never smashed me for anything greater than 5400. And I watch their buffs to see the adrenal and relic pop.

 

Rage/Focus specs are so easy to counter and avoid. Most players are so predictable that you can easily force them to waste the move. Or if you soak the first, dodge the second, they are kind of weak babies for about 12s, as there simply is not enough Focus or everything is on long enough cooldowns that you can have your way with them.

 

The spec is mainly popular due to the fact that it shines in Voidstar and it is arugably the main DPS spec for Juggs and for Sentinels it is a change-up than Watchman all the time, as Combat has some issues.

 

And before anyone comments on my Scs expertise, that is an alt. My main is only missing the BM Relic/Bracers/Belt.

 

This guy has it right. If I pop my relic and adrenal simultaneously and have the sweep build up completely, geared players with expertise rarely take over 5k damage. Without the relic/adrenal buffs, my typical hits are 3500-4000. And yes, it's incredibly easy for people to avoid. I have tricks, of course, including using the sweep at 3 stacks, which sacrifices some damage to avoid an inevitable knockback, or getting 4 stacks, waiting for knockback, then leaping and using it, but smart players are able to avoid it often, not to mention the fact that the client/server sync frequently thinks im standing on top of someone, only for me to find out a moment later that apparently I wasn't, and my sweep just hit nothing. Show me another burst combo that has these problems.

[drdarpa]

This warrior ability needs to be looked at. Hitting for over 6k regullary with 9(15 untalented) sec CD AFTER SURGE NERF is stupid. Note that i don't ask to nerf warrior overall DPS - it's just their damage need to be split around several abilites instead of one single bomb.

 

 

Is this a joke? Seriously, you do realize that your character has to be within 5 meters of it right?

[SillyTurtle]

Most things were said already so I don't have to reiterate. But seriously, 550 exp and you are getting hit for 6k damage “regularly”??? Either this is a complete exaggeration or you face the same marauder in full BM thats a rage spec. But even then, wouldnt your gear just equal itself out? If he has equal to or close expertise, you shouldn't be getting hit for that amount.

 

Either way, a 6k is anything but normal everyday amount of dmg per hit. To even do this move, you have to land a force jump, do a force choke/crush and let it tick the 4 full seconds, and THEN hit smash, which by the way, the AoE is only 5m, and is tricky to hit sometimes due to people constantly moving. The entire process will only even happen if no one else is attacking the marauder that is attacking you. The buff wears off after a short while, so we have to play smarter to even pull the combo off.

 

You make it sound it's instant hit where it's anything but. It's also ONLY rage spec. With ALL these circumstances, is there really a problem with it? Many other classes can hit a couple of buttons in a quarter of the time and do the same amount of damage or more.

[Teabaker]

I think the Problem is still the PvP Adrenal and the Expertise Buff. +30% Damage and -30% Damage Taken. OP!

[Eschleepy]

This guy has it right. If I pop my relic and adrenal simultaneously and have the sweep build up completely, geared players with expertise rarely take over 5k damage. Without the relic/adrenal buffs, my typical hits are 3500-4000. And yes, it's incredibly easy for people to avoid. I have tricks, of course, including using the sweep at 3 stacks, which sacrifices some damage to avoid an inevitable knockback, or getting 4 stacks, waiting for knockback, then leaping and using it, but smart players are able to avoid it often, not to mention the fact that the client/server sync frequently thinks im standing on top of someone, only for me to find out a moment later that apparently I wasn't, and my sweep just hit nothing. Show me another burst combo that has these problems.

 

Another class with those problems? Gladly, how about the ops that got nerfed? Only when we get knocked back, you're just straight SOL. Or scratch that, if even a stray AOE touches us, our burst is FUBAR. But its ok, we dont matter any more. We got our nerf and people have EVERY ability that hits for over 4k in their sights. Have fun being the hunted in the witch hunt!

[drdarpa]

I don't really think that I buy the OP's calculation without concrete proof. Maybe combined on all targets, pre-surge nerf "regularly". But again, we're talking about a melee class here. Maybe the OP should learn how to wisely manage his cooldowns or adjust his field position if he's having this kind of problem.

 

Hell, maybe if he stops crying about it, one of these guys on his team critting single targets for 6k "regularly" on an AOE attack might even put guard on him.

[Kabaal]

Most things were said already so I don't have to reiterate. But seriously, 550 exp and you are getting hit for 6k damage “regularly”??? Either this is a complete exaggeration or you face the same marauder in full BM thats a rage spec. But even then, wouldnt your gear just equal itself out? If he has equal to or close expertise, you shouldn't be getting hit for that amount.

 

Either way, a 6k is anything but normal everyday amount of dmg per hit. To even do this move, you have to land a force jump, do a force choke/crush and let it tick the 4 full seconds, and THEN hit smash, which by the way, the AoE is only 5m, and is tricky to hit sometimes due to people constantly moving. The entire process will only even happen if no one else is attacking the marauder that is attacking you. The buff wears off after a short while, so we have to play smarter to even pull the combo off.

 

You make it sound it's instant hit where it's anything but. It's also ONLY rage spec. With ALL these circumstances, is there really a problem with it? Many other classes can hit a couple of buttons in a quarter of the time and do the same amount of damage or more.

It has to be, either that or he hasn't played since a good few patches ago. I do 4k ish pretty regularly on my Jugg and once in a while i'll see 5-6k+ which is usually in the middle of a clusterfrack so is probably against new 50's but i haven't seen 6 or 7k in quite some time.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Kabaal

[MPagano]

I'm immortal spec, and I have no reason to obstruct a nerf or rebalancing of any other juggernaut spec. DPS juggernaut playstyles don't interest me.

 

Now I should point out to the OP- who is calling for combos and not a single hard hitting ability- that rage spec does just what you ask it to.

 

The talents and abilities in the rage tree are designed such that the player will perform a series of moves to build up some buffs and execute the final ability- smash- for a larger amount of damage. It is because of these previously chained abilities that the smash does more damage.

 

It's also worth pointing out that your claims of 6k smash crits are hard to swallow. I have less than 200 exp and I've never experienced this. I've seen upwards of 4-4.5k. You claim to have even more expertise, so I'm not sure how you're taking even more damage than I am. It's hard to really pin this down without a combat parser, though.