Arylia Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 What's wrong with it? As a geared level 50 I've never ONCE had a problem with it. I think most of you are missing the fact that you're trading your mobility for 20% defense, which is more than you think. By the way, Snipers don't run around. They stay in one place and shoot from COVER. Take away cover and you have an Operative without the ability to heal and stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdvesper Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'll just summarize the cover issues (and save you reading a few months worth of QQ) 1. When taking cover on strange geometry you get the "Unknown Effect" error message and nothing happens. You can't always choose perfectly smooth ground to take cover during PVP or when you're running around DPSing a raid boss. 2. Immobilize effects prevent cover from deploying. Some effects have long immobilize durations, during which time a Marks/Eng snipers are crippled because most of their abilities require cover. This effectively turns an immobilize into a stun against snipers, forcing us to use our CC breaker on something that doesn't even build resolve. 3. Alas, if only cover actually gave us 20% ranged defense. Of the 8 classes in the game, 3 are ranged (Sorc, Sniper, Merc) and of the 3, cover really only works against other snipers. For example, you cannot dodge most Merc attacks (eg. Tracer Missiles), and you cannot dodge all Sorc attacks (eg. Force Lightning) That being said, I think cover is fine, it's just a couple of things that irritate players. Sure there are some bad points, but the benefits that cover provides the class is immense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryogenique Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Cover in PvE is generally okay if you make sure your on a good surface.. PvP is where the problems begin. Not going to add anymore to the post above me, just inputting my opinion that it's a good idea in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheebe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah I agree with the above posts.. Cover does undoubtedly have its advantages, and I like to use it as well, if anything just to look so much more awesome than all the other noobs just standing around randomly. However you could say it's a flawed diamond - sometimes it works and it's a really amusing mechanic, one of the main reasons I even play a sniper, but it really could use a bit tweaking and correcting. Edited February 21, 2012 by Pheebe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacity Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Go into natural cover, and activate entrench. Watch as it miraculously disappears after 1 second. The same thing happens with the cover buffs provided by snap shot and ballistic dampeners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altruismo Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) 2. Immobilize effects prevent cover from deploying. Some effects have long immobilize durations, during which time a Marks/Eng snipers are crippled because most of their abilities require cover. This effectively turns an immobilize into a stun against snipers, forcing us to use our CC breaker on something that doesn't even build resolve. This is absolutely the worst thing about the cover system. Being rooted should not prevent a sniper from crouching on the spot. It's an uneccessary and crippling effect that should be considered a bug, no other class is locked out of a large percentage of their abilities by being rooted, snipers shouldn't be either. It's particularly ridiculous when you consider that the abilities that a sniper gets "locked out" of, actually require you to be rooted (in cover/crouched) to be able to use them in the first place. Go into natural cover, and activate entrench. Watch as it miraculously disappears after 1 second. Go into PVP, and activate entrench. Watch as it miraculously disappears after 1 second Although that appears to have stopped happening (for me) since last patch. Edited February 21, 2012 by Altruismo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGVK Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This is absolutely the worst thing about the cover system. Being rooted should not prevent a sniper from crouching on the spot. It's an uneccessary and crippling effect that should be considered a bug, no other class is locked out of a large percentage of their abilities by being rooted, snipers shouldn't be either. It's particularly ridiculous when you consider that the abilities that a sniper gets "locked out" of, actually require you to be rooted (in cover/crouched) to be able to use them in the first place. What about the melee classes? If you're rooted all your opponent has to do is back away. You aren't even able to spam 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altruismo Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 What about the melee classes? If you're rooted all your opponent has to do is back away. You aren't even able to spam 1. Not quite the same thing, being rooted means not being able to move into or out of range for everybody, not just melee classes. It's not a problem that a sniper can't even "spam 1" against a target 36m away (out of range) when they are rooted, it's not even a problem that they can't run from a melee class that's pounding them while they are rooted. It's a problem that they can't use a lot of their abilities at all even against an adjacent target while rooted. For Marksman and Engineering snipers, this is a huge problem (not so much for Lethality.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neveroutgunned Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Activating a skill after cover is still wonky and unresponsive, cover pulse going off after the enemy is already past me shooting them into the goal in hutball comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nichtganz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Cover just needs a +20% damage reduction passive against all types of damage. Defense rating is useless against sorcs and mercs. Lets not get started on CD's that stop working when you leave cover. BM Sniper. Edited February 21, 2012 by nichtganz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balduvar Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Activating a skill after cover is still wonky and unresponsive, cover pulse going off after the enemy is already past me shooting them into the goal in hutball comes to mind. I can't stand that! Most games have at least a little bit of lag when the server must tell your client where another player is. Usually doing something like rooting or stunning a player forces the server to update that player's position. That is not the case in this game. I will frequently stun someone so I can line up a cover pulse to knock them into fire on hut ball only to watch them go flying off 90 degrees from where I expected. Or worse, sometimes it is a full 180. I've sent plenty of enemy hut ball running backs flying to glory because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feztonio Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I just hate when i have a clear line on an opponent in pvp or even pve, i hit the handy 'take cover' icon in my toolbar.. and my toon inexplicably tucks and rolls 100 feet away behind something which takes me out of LOS from my target and i'm unable to actually shoot. so i have to exit cover, move, re-cover, hope i dont roll away again out of LOS, and then start attacking. the other is if i'm up on a ledge and shooting from distance and range, so i go and hit the handy 'take cover' icon again, and then my toon does the tuck and roll down off of the ledge, closes the gap and takes me in cover 3 feet from a melee opponent. so i lose the distance sniping and i'm right front and center where they can whack away on my face. both fun times in pvp and happens at least once a warzone lolz. that said, i don't really mind and worst case scenario i die and have to rez and run back. my neighbors however must enjoy the 'colorful' language i yell at the monitor when one or the other occurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astares Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I just hate when i have a clear line on an opponent in pvp or even pve, i hit the handy 'take cover' icon in my toolbar.. and my toon inexplicably tucks and rolls 100 feet away behind something which takes me out of LOS from my target and i'm unable to actually shoot. so i have to exit cover, move, re-cover, hope i dont roll away again out of LOS, and then start attacking. .... Take it off your hotbar and use F to take cover or Shift+F to setup where you are, it will ignore any possible cover points. That's the default keys change it in preferences if you want. If they just got rid of the roots stopping setting up cover in place then I'd be very happy with it. I can understand it stopping you from rolling off into cover but it's a poor way to handle it stopping all use of cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I actually put my take cover to mouse wheel roll up and my take cover in place to mouse wheel down. Works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankyhobo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Natural cover is a joke at best, the environments are not designed to make use of it beyond hutta and most of the time the roll-to regions are facing the wrong direction, not present or too close to the targets. That may be a bearable design flaw but what gets me is that its never clearly explained that you can SHIFT+F to deploy mobile cover or place mobile cover in natural spots for the same benefits. Players will struggle for a while until they find a solution from other players or the forums. The solution is to pull that off your hot-bar and rebind your keys. I think rolling to natural cover should just be removed from the game because it hurts more than it helps. That aside, placing mobile cover i am fine with in concept; it is a penalty, its designed to cause serious problems with mobility and the 20% as already stated by others is basically useless. I would be fine with this and other penalties (white damage), except i dont feel like the bonuses exist which these are supposed to offset. Then there are the bugs with it; like geometry preventing you from placing cover - there are many spots in hutt-ball like near walkway edges or on the fire grills which cause issues. "Oh i need to cover-pulse right now or the enemy team gets a point" whoops covers broke, i need to run 3 meters over there in order to use it, that gets quite frustrating. I've even had it lock a few times where i get a red text error message in the middle of the screen (forget what it says) but when this happens you cannot place cover until you log out and log back in. Edited February 22, 2012 by Crankyhobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdvesper Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 That aside, placing mobile cover i am fine with in concept; it is a penalty, its designed to cause serious problems with mobility and the 20% as already stated by others is basically useless. I would be fine with this and other penalties (white damage), except i dont feel like the bonuses exist which these are supposed to offset. I didn't mention it in my first post because this was offtopic, but if you're strictly talking about the bonuses / penalties you get while in cover, you have to take into account the fact that you are immune to interrupts. I cannot stress how powerful this is, and how much the other two ranged classes would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get this. Imagine if Mercs and Sorcs could get cover, as in, become immobile for awhile as they channel / cast spells - heck, they're immobile anyway while casting, right? Why not be uninterruptible as well? This is slightly more advanced play: but basically, ability interrupts are off the GCD, so you can fire them even when your character is in the middle of an instant cast - for example, you cast an instant snipe, you can also use Distraction while the rest of your abilities are locked out. Diversion costs nothing, and refreshes every 12 seconds. Good snipers will ALWAYS have distraction on cooldown, regardless of what they are doing. There is always something to interrupt: Force Lightning, Tracer Missile, Heals, etc. You just need to be quick - you have 1.5 seconds to click to another target, interrupt, and get back to your original kill target. I see a fresh Commando run into a fight and I can cut most of their DPS out right from the start by interrupting his first Grav Round. Same for a Sorc. A Sniper, however, runs up and sets up cover, and there's nothing you can do to mitigate the damage against your team unless you specced Diversion. So yes, Cover is an amazing skill. But that isn't what this topic is about: it's about people hating the various problems with the skill itself, not disputing that the penalties for cover outweigh the benefits, because they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankyhobo Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Except there are many abilities which knock you out of cover which interrupts your cast doesn't it. I don't think its as useful as you make it out to be. Ballistic Shield on the other hand, rarely talked about is probably our best ability. Edited February 24, 2012 by Crankyhobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xizari Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) What's wrong with it? As a geared level 50 I've never ONCE had a problem with it. I think most of you are missing the fact that you're trading your mobility for 20% defense, which is more than you think. By the way, Snipers don't run around. They stay in one place and shoot from COVER. Take away cover and you have an Operative without the ability to heal and stealth. The issues with cover are the following: A. Natural Cover is awkward placed in Operations and to a lesser extent Flashpoints. B. Take Cover is a clunky system and can occasionally make it difficult to go where you want to go. C. Artificial Cover is much simpler and easier, and in a raid, there's really no reason to use Natural Cover (Annihilation Droid has some opportunities). D. Every class seems to have a knockback, and it is ENTIRELY too easy to knock a Sniper from cover. E. The Sniper cover defense bonuses are negligible most of the time and don't work on things like "Grav Round." Edited February 23, 2012 by Xizari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeybusiness Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Sentinels/marauders are exploiting the root restriction, almost impossible to kill one in a 1 on 1 fight (skilled vs skilled btw) Fix this. really fix this Extra defenses for cover i can see why people would ask for it (i had a 5/10% dmg redu from all sources in mind) cover pulse trows people around randomly from time to time (can't aim the knockback) Several talents needs a rework (laze target gets same functionality as sorcerers resurgence, very good idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaroBaro Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Activating a skill after cover is still wonky and unresponsive, cover pulse going off after the enemy is already past me shooting them into the goal in hutball comes to mind. 'cause the knockbacks of all other classes are lag free, precise and always send the other player exactly where you want them to go. OP this is the forums of a 2 million subscribers game. Even if 0.1% of the subscribers are unhappy with something that is still 1000 people QQing to high heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xizari Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 'cause the knockbacks of all other classes are lag free, precise and always send the other player exactly where you want them to go. OP this is the forums of a 2 million subscribers game. Even if 0.1% of the subscribers are unhappy with something that is still 1000 people QQing to high heaven. OP isn't necessarily wrong though when saying Cover can be clunky. It's generally fine, just could use some smoothing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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